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Old 02/14/2017, 08:34 PM   #1
642642
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Reef salt parameters off

Anyone else having problems with their parameters not meeting what is on aquaforest ticket? I mix up a 5 gallon bucket of salt water and tested it. It showed 481 calcium and 7.3 alkalinity. On the ticket it said it should be 425 calcium and 8.0 alkalinity. Both of these were tested what Hannah checkers. This is Reef salt


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Old 02/15/2017, 10:43 AM   #2
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Yes this seems to be a common complaint. There's a big thread on it here, and it comes up multiple times on their facebook group.

My first bucket of probiotic was completely off from the ticket it came with (multiple test kits, multiple refractometers w/ 2 different calibration fluids). My next two buckets (Reef Salt then Probiotic again) matched the ticket almost perfectly.


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Old 02/16/2017, 06:46 AM   #3
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Hello,
If Ca is 481 ( I am sure that not) but if it is so difference between 481 and 425 is 56ppm when you will make 10% water change Ca could rise 5,6ppm - your corals will consume that in 1 day
What is your salinity?


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Old 02/16/2017, 08:09 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 642642 View Post
Anyone else having problems with their parameters not meeting what is on aquaforest ticket? I mix up a 5 gallon bucket of salt water and tested it. It showed 481 calcium and 7.3 alkalinity. On the ticket it said it should be 425 calcium and 8.0 alkalinity. Both of these were tested what Hannah checkers. This is Reef salt
Hello
i see nothing really worth to complaint about ??

AF specifies the salt as Alk 7,7..8,3 dH and Ca between 440..460 mg/L if mixed to 35 psu
Compared to what you measured, this is less than 5% of what they promise.

Also there is the chance that you made slight errors in
- mixing (amount of water and weight of salt used really according instructions ?)
- Did you check the salinity and are sure that you measure correctly ?
- Did you calibrate your hanna checkers measurement values, or do you "just believe" what your checkers tell you ?


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Old 02/16/2017, 08:17 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Martin Kuhn View Post
Hello
i see nothing really worth to complaint about ??

AF specifies the salt as Alk 7,7..8,3 dH and Ca between 440..460 mg/L if mixed to 35 psu
Compared to what you measured, this is less than 5% of what they promise.

Also there is the chance that you made slight errors in
- mixing (amount of water and weight of salt used really according instructions ?)
- Did you check the salinity and are sure that you measure correctly ?
- Did you calibrate your hanna checkers measurement values, or do you "just believe" what your checkers tell you ?


rgds
Martin
I use the Hanna checkers as well. Do I think they're accurate? No. But they do give me an idea where I want to be. Hanna says the accuracy on their checkers can be + or - 5% to 6%.


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Old 03/06/2017, 07:47 AM   #6
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Beware the Reefsalt,got a bucket in to get more aggressive with some water changes,I been using AF Probiotic.
Because of a UK forum thread i thought i better check it.
Reefsalt:
Ca 550
Mg 1550
Lot/Batch 442


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Old 03/06/2017, 10:21 AM   #7
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How much salt did you mix to how much water ? RO/DI used ?
Salinity reached ?


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Old 03/06/2017, 11:01 AM   #8
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How much salt did you mix to how much water ? RO/DI used ?
Salinity reached ?
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800g to 20L which is double what their website & guide quotes @ 400g/10L


35ppt referance solution

& its reading

.
.
.
.
.
Another 35ppt reference solution

and its reading

.
.
.
.

And the salt mix


.
.
.
and R/O
.


So which part am i misunderstanding?


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Old 03/06/2017, 11:43 AM   #9
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Looks like you have mixed the salt at 1.027 instead of 1.026? That is probably why the calcium is higher, but alkalinity is going to be quite low. Easy to fix though.


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Old 03/06/2017, 12:06 PM   #10
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Looks like you have mixed the salt at 1.027 instead of 1.026? That is probably why the calcium is higher, but alkalinity is going to be quite low. Easy to fix though.
I would have at a guess that seen the refractometer calibrates with RO that at 35ppt that its slipped above 1.0265 meaning that is why 2 x 35ppt solutions are saying 1.027

If two 35ppt solutions say 1.027 & the salt mix also says that,I would assume the salt mix is also 35ppt NO?


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Old 03/06/2017, 12:09 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by 2una View Post
I would have at a guess that seen the refractometer calibrates with RO that at 35ppt that its slipped above 1.0265 meaning that is why 2 x 35ppt solutions are saying 1.027

If two 35ppt solutions say 1.027 & the salt mix also says that,I would assume the salt mix is also 35ppt NO?
If it rounds up to 1.027 from 1.0265 then that could be the issue. As you probably know, 35 ppt is actually 1.0264.

In any event if it is that close the parameters from the salt will not change that much by mixing it so it reads 1.026.


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Old 03/06/2017, 12:26 PM   #12
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Yeah we're still looking at needing to lose more than 100ppm on both


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Old 03/06/2017, 10:16 PM   #13
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Qute interesting as you did a lot to get correct measurements and anyhow the values are a bit strange

I doubt a bit the readings from the digital Refrac. 1,027 SG @28,0C is 37,2 psu and thus quite a lot higher than the 35 psu that it should be. I also wonder a bit that the Refrac doesn't show you the "psu" reading but instead SG at measurement temperature. PSU is much easier to interprete as SG that has always to be regarded together "with measurement temperature".
So it seems that your Refrak has an Offset an shows a too high value.

My personal test of a batch of AF Pro Biotice salt was
- 41,7g added to 1L needed to achieve 34,8 psu
- CA 395, Alk 6,0dH Mg 1385
(very accurate temp/water-Volume/density measurement, Reef-Anlaytics calibrated test kits)

Did you check your test kits for Ca/Mg also to test the Fauna Marin MultiReference?
This results would be the most interesting ones.


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Old 03/07/2017, 08:41 AM   #14
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watered the mix down to 33ppt & still get 500 Ca

Aquaforest so much response i'm overwhelmed.
Just keep posting pretty pics in other threads & ignore anyone with any "issues"
I'm done using this brand,If they can't control their major elements who knows where the hell the minors are at.


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Old 03/07/2017, 09:57 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Martin Kuhn View Post
Qute interesting as you did a lot to get correct measurements and anyhow the values are a bit strange

I doubt a bit the readings from the digital Refrac. 1,027 SG @28,0C is 37,2 psu and thus quite a lot higher than the 35 psu that it should be. I also wonder a bit that the Refrac doesn't show you the "psu" reading but instead SG at measurement temperature. PSU is much easier to interprete as SG that has always to be regarded together "with measurement temperature".
So it seems that your Refrak has an Offset an shows a too high value.

My personal test of a batch of AF Pro Biotice salt was
- 41,7g added to 1L needed to achieve 34,8 psu
- CA 395, Alk 6,0dH Mg 1385
(very accurate temp/water-Volume/density measurement, Reef-Anlaytics calibrated test kits)

Did you check your test kits for Ca/Mg also to test the Fauna Marin MultiReference?
This results would be the most interesting ones.
After my last issue with the probiotic salt and reading this thread I went back and tested my current (soon to be empty box/batch) and got
CA: 400, Alk 6.1 (this would explain a lot of whats been going on with my tank), Mg 1410

I only test my salt batches randomly and this was the first time I tested this batch. But this is the second batch of salt whos parameters were off.


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Old 03/07/2017, 10:06 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2una View Post
watered the mix down to 33ppt & still get 500 Ca

Aquaforest so much response i'm overwhelmed.
Just keep posting pretty pics in other threads & ignore anyone with any "issues"
I'm done using this brand,If they can't control their major elements who knows where the hell the minors are at.
There was a similar thread over this issue not to long ago with regards to their reef salt:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...ef+salt&page=3

You can probably gauge the level of response from AF in that thread to what they will respond in yours.


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Old 03/12/2017, 05:47 PM   #17
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I'm trying AF PB mix and my SG has been a little low after mixing. I am going by weight and have a gram scale to exactly get my measurements like I did with ESV (which is always perfect). My finished mix is around 1.024-1.025 when I was aiming for 1.026.

I'm also noticing my pH dropping after my water change. Why would that happen? I keep my tank at dkh8 (auto alk/ca daily). went from ph8.0 down to 7.8 within an hour. hmmm


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Old 03/13/2017, 12:02 PM   #18
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I'm trying AF PB mix and my SG has been a little low after mixing. I am going by weight and have a gram scale to exactly get my measurements like I did with ESV (which is always perfect). My finished mix is around 1.024-1.025 when I was aiming for 1.026.

I'm also noticing my pH dropping after my water change. Why would that happen? I keep my tank at dkh8 (auto alk/ca daily). went from ph8.0 down to 7.8 within an hour. hmmm
pH issues can come from the extra CO2 that is created after making RO/DI water...that's why they say mix the water for 24 hours to exhaust the CO2 and balance the waters o2 content.

Im not saying that is the issue with your water or questioning how you make water but it could be a cause of low pH. I make water and agitate the water with a pump and inject air for 24 hours before I add the salt. My tank pH has never dropped from a water change.

Im more wondering why my parameters are so off with this batch. I know from the last go around with this issue AF said they will QA the salt to prevent this from happening...did they?


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Old 03/13/2017, 12:16 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2una View Post
watered the mix down to 33ppt & still get 500 Ca

Aquaforest so much response i'm overwhelmed.
Just keep posting pretty pics in other threads & ignore anyone with any "issues"
I'm done using this brand,If they can't control their major elements who knows where the hell the minors are at.
I actually switched for the same reason. I'd rather have parameters too low, at least then I can correct it very easily. I kind of doubted some of the posts about problems with the AF salt early on but found out myself later, they were likely true. I got one smaller bucket of Probiotic that was a brick too, they told me it was fine to use so I smashed it all up, but when I mixed it there were all kinds of precipitants. No thanks.



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Old 03/13/2017, 01:58 PM   #20
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that make sense of my first water change now. just starting AF 2 days ago, too excited. i didnt test alk/ca/mg after mixing, did a 50G water change. test next morning. Alk went down as i expected, Ca and Mg went up.(i did stopped all my alk/ca/mg dosers)
well, i was looking for a salt that have low alk, high ca and mg. at least this bucket is exactly what i was looking for.
just like any synthetic salt. it's hard to have a 100% even mixed.


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Old 03/14/2017, 10:30 AM   #21
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pH issues can come from the extra CO2 that is created after making RO/DI water...that's why they say mix the water for 24 hours to exhaust the CO2 and balance the waters o2 content.

Im not saying that is the issue with your water or questioning how you make water but it could be a cause of low pH. I make water and agitate the water with a pump and inject air for 24 hours before I add the salt. My tank pH has never dropped from a water change.

Im more wondering why my parameters are so off with this batch. I know from the last go around with this issue AF said they will QA the salt to prevent this from happening...did they?
My RO supply is in my garage which should be outside air, so running an airstone within that container shouldn't really make a difference...?? I also have been running an airstone from outside air into my reef tank which has helped increase my ph by displacing my in-home co2 levels. I have also fine tuned my system to maintain dkh8, but yesterday 2 days after my water change with AF PB it was dkh7. I should have tested the salt mix after I made it to see really whats in there..... I'm new to this company so I'll keep trying, but I might be going back to my trusty ESV soon....


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Old 03/14/2017, 11:01 AM   #22
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My RO supply is in my garage which should be outside air, so running an airstone within that container shouldn't really make a difference...?? I also have been running an airstone from outside air into my reef tank which has helped increase my ph by displacing my in-home co2 levels. I have also fine tuned my system to maintain dkh8, but yesterday 2 days after my water change with AF PB it was dkh7. I should have tested the salt mix after I made it to see really whats in there..... I'm new to this company so I'll keep trying, but I might be going back to my trusty ESV soon....
If you are bringing in that much outside O2, then you shouldn't have any pH issues, you are right about that. I just tested another 5 gallons to see if the parameters have changed any from scoop to scoop and nope, my dkh was still 6.1 on the mark.


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Old 03/14/2017, 11:08 AM   #23
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If you are bringing in that much outside O2, then you shouldn't have any pH issues, you are right about that. I just tested another 5 gallons to see if the parameters have changed any from scoop to scoop and nope, my dkh was still 6.1 on the mark.
That seems lower than it should be, I think I read AF wants a slightly lower dkh for the proliferation of the probiotic fauna. Should I decrease my sodiumCarbonate dosing? I use auto dosing pumps and can titrate to anything, I was targeting dkh8 prior to using AF. Even with using NACarbonate dosing and pumping outside air, still seem to struggle with keeping my ph above 8.0. thats why I'm concerned, this salt is pushing my ph in the wrong direction.


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