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Unread 07/17/2003, 07:29 AM   #26
vmiller
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klas,
If they phyto crashes, you have no backup and are out of luck for 7 days and will probably need to buy DTs to feed your rotifers.


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Unread 07/17/2003, 08:42 AM   #27
Dwayne
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Quote:
Originally posted by fjdevelopment
the real question relates to - is is it really necessary to swooooo....sh it into the tank or is a continualy steady drip really not good enough. Can we really pre-predict the digestive cycles of the fish collectively? and time it perfectly to their individal needs? when is best right for each fish? or do we need to understand their individual feeding habit needs.

I think when I feel like feeding them comes closer to nature itself.
The reason for the surge as opposed to the drip is to get more variety into the tank. Use the brine shrimp as an example. With a drop method you have to count on the brine shrimp swimming into the drip tube or being pulled into the tube by the siphon caused by a single drop, staying in the tube, and then being dripped into the tank. With the surge method a siphon is created causing any brine shrimp in the area of the surge tube to be siphoned into the tank.

Now expand this idea to include phytoplankton, rotifers, copepods, and brine shrimp. Understanding the last section of the Geosapper would be holding all of these, the siphon created by a single drop is not sufficient to pull all these into the tank.

By having periodic surges of multiple live foods the Geosapper allows the tank to be continuously fed (similar to a constant drip) but in surges that contain a variety of live foods (unlike the drip method).

On the road to the Geosapper, I used many different techniques to try and feed the tank live food. There were pros and cons to almost everyone of the ideas I tried. The Geosapper provided the best results. The drawback to the Geosapper (discussed earlier in this thread) is the need to have it above the tank. Other than that, I haven't found any other drawbacks.

Dwayne


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Unread 07/17/2003, 08:52 AM   #28
fjdevelopment
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Dwayne:

I am in the process of putting together a system for my tank.

My reactors have bubblers in them to try and keep the entire mix even throughout.

My thought was to use dosing pumps to dispense the liquids to the tank periodically which I plan to control with my Neptune Controller.

Any thoughts?

John


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Unread 07/17/2003, 08:53 AM   #29
Dwayne
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Re: combined phyto reactor

Quote:
Originally posted by klas
What do you you think of making the first chamber larger, and add light? Wouldn't it be possible to have an ongoing culture in this first chamber, to eliminate the need for culturing the phytos in another place?
The first section could be made larger to allow for more phytoplankton. I would be very hesitant in making it a phytoplankton reactor. If it were a phytoplankton reactor, it would be almost impossible to drip out good phytoplankton as opposed to weaker or underdeveloped phytoplankton.

A thought I had was to incorporate phytoplankton reactors external to the Geosapper. If the culture process was perfected and you knew every 7 days a culture would be at peak development, it could dump into the top section of Geosapper. By having 7 phytoplankton reactors, you could have fresh phytoplankton everyday. Now all we have to do is perfect the culture process, auto dump the phytoplankton to the Geosapper, and auto fill and start the next phytoplankton culture.

Dwayne


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Unread 07/17/2003, 08:59 AM   #30
fjdevelopment
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Dwayne:

My thoughts are to dose sterile water into the plankton reactor daily and let the same amount of cultured plankton water then overflow out to the Rotifer reactor and so on.... By controlling input dosing you could then time the output at say 1/7th per day.
To say it simply it would be like a waterfall...

What do yo think?


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Unread 07/17/2003, 09:08 AM   #31
Dwayne
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Quote:
Originally posted by fjdevelopment
My thought was to use dosing pumps to dispense the liquids to the tank periodically which I plan to control with my Neptune Controller.
Dosing pumps should work fine. My reasons for not going with the dosing pumps was the cost and the possibility of failure. Omit the cost factor and dosing pumps are a good choice. Another factor will be a holding area for each type of live food and the need to feed or fill each of these holding areas.

Dwayne


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Unread 07/17/2003, 09:12 AM   #32
fjdevelopment
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Smile

I am happy to hear you concur.

I am interested in the unit you have made and think that maybe it is a good addition to what I am making, although under my theory I may not need to create multiple chambers because the liquids flow from one to another.


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Unread 07/17/2003, 09:17 AM   #33
Dwayne
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Quote:
Originally posted by fjdevelopment
My thoughts are to dose sterile water into the plankton reactor daily and let the same amount of cultured plankton water then overflow out to the Rotifer reactor and so on.... By controlling input dosing you could then time the output at say 1/7th per day.
To say it simply it would be like a waterfall...

What do yo think?
What you're referring to is a continuous phyto reactor. I know some folks have come close to getting this to work, but I haven't seen one actually working yet. If one had a working continuous phyto reactor, then YES it could be incorporated and be really cool

Dwayne


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Unread 07/17/2003, 09:21 AM   #34
Dwayne
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Quote:
Originally posted by vmiller
klas,
If they phyto crashes, you have no backup and are out of luck for 7 days and will probably need to buy DTs to feed your rotifers.
Agreed.

Dwayne


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Unread 07/17/2003, 09:24 AM   #35
fjdevelopment
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klas:

You can always take a little phytoplankton from your reactor and store it away in the refrigerator just like DT's


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Unread 07/18/2003, 09:34 AM   #36
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1. How do you calculate the dripping rate to control your rotifer population? It seems to me that it is almost impossible not to over/under harvest the rotifers.

2. You still need to hatch BBS externally then add them to the bottom section right?


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Unread 07/18/2003, 11:31 AM   #37
Dwayne
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Quote:
Originally posted by bcjm
1. How do you calculate the dripping rate to control your rotifer population? It seems to me that it is almost impossible not to over/under harvest the rotifers.
The level of difficulty in maintaining a specific density of rotifers is dependent on the application. For "just" feeding a tank it is not necessary to maintain an exact density. Another example is using the Geosapper to feed fry. Then a higher density is required. In the case of over-harvesting (too low a density), the rotifer level in the Geosapper can be supplemented by adding rotifers via the vent/fill tube for the rotifer section.

Quote:
2. You still need to hatch BBS externally then add them to the bottom section right?
Yes. I highly recommend hatching the brine shrimp externally and then adding them to the bottom section of the Geosapper.

Dwayne


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Unread 07/19/2003, 05:09 PM   #38
fjdevelopment
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Dwaye:

I you have not already read "Plankton Culture Manual" by Frank and Terry Snell I highly recomend it.

It is available through Florida Aqua Farms, Inc.

John


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Unread 07/19/2003, 07:02 PM   #39
Dwayne
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Quote:
Originally posted by fjdevelopment
Dwaye:

I you have not already read "Plankton Culture Manual" by Frank and Terry Snell I highly recomend it.

It is available through Florida Aqua Farms, Inc.

John
Yes, I have read it. It is very good information.

Dwayne


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Unread 07/19/2003, 08:56 PM   #40
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Quote:
The force is powerful enough to seperate the pods from their skin.
So the same problem would be for those who have their refugium going to sump, right? If so, those who are content to run their refugium through the sump, should also be OK with running the geosapper through the sump ...


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Unread 07/19/2003, 09:02 PM   #41
Dwayne
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dag
So the same problem would be for those who have their refugium going to sump, right? If so, those who are content to run their refugium through the sump, should also be OK with running the geosapper through the sump ...
If you are happy running your refugium through your sump, then you should be happy running thge Geosapper in the same manner.

Dwayne


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Unread 07/19/2003, 09:23 PM   #42
Dag
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Happy? No choice, and it seems better than no refugium at all.


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Unread 07/20/2003, 06:45 AM   #43
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Hey D.
You and Geo have a very cool item here!
I am planning a getto version (maybe out of the Rubbermaid stackable droors on wheels, like someone mentioned) but im thinking of making it a bit larger and adding a 4th section. The 4th/bottom section will house a sand bed and some mysids. I think i will call it the DeWebber Whatca think?


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Unread 07/20/2003, 06:45 AM   #44
Rod Buehler
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Hey D.
You and Geo have a very cool item here!
I am planning a getto version (maybe out of the Rubbermaid stackable droors on wheels, like someone mentioned) but im thinking of making it a bit larger and adding a 4th section. The 4th/bottom section will house a sand bed and some mysids. I think i will call it the DeWebber Whatca think?


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Unread 07/20/2003, 10:33 AM   #45
Dwayne
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rod Buehler
Hey D.
You and Geo have a very cool item here!
I am planning a getto version (maybe out of the Rubbermaid stackable droors on wheels, like someone mentioned) but im thinking of making it a bit larger and adding a 4th section. The 4th/bottom section will house a sand bed and some mysids. I think i will call it the DeWebber Whatca think?
LOL at DeWebber

A fourth stage with mysis would be interesting. I've been saying I was going to try to culture mysis, but I haven't done it yet.

Dwayne


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Unread 08/06/2003, 01:55 PM   #46
tgeiger
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I just wanted to let you know I just finish building mine. I'm using 5L #7 Tupperware containers. Right now I only have 2 levels, but plan to add a 3rd in a few days.

The biggest problem I had was figuring out how to get the tubing through the containers. I ended up with 3 solutions.
1) For rigid tubing, drill 3/16" hole, stick the tube through, and Crazy Glue it and seal with silicon sealant (both sides).
2) For fill/vent tube, used 1/2" PVC male threaded elbow. The tupperware container wall is thin enough that it auto-threads.
3) Picked up some sprinkler 1/4" barb unions. They have a nice flat peice in the middle that glues well to the tupperware container.

Thanks for a great idea!

-Tom


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Unread 08/06/2003, 02:25 PM   #47
vmiller
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Geo is selling these at a very reasonable price. I have one waiting for me at my door step


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Unread 09/20/2003, 01:07 PM   #48
Chris_Reef
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This looks very cool! For those of you who have built or bought one.. how do you like it?


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Unread 09/20/2003, 02:16 PM   #49
vmiller
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For the past month I have been fighting cyano. As a result I haven't been feeding live food and haven't had a chance to try out the geosapper.

The cyano is gone for the most part so hopefully I'll be able to start using it soon.

Vin


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Unread 09/21/2003, 12:43 AM   #50
darrellh
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Hi Dwayne,

The Geosapper looks like a great idea. Thanks for sharing your ingenuity with the masses. I had a question about the phytoplankton. Does the phyto have to be live, or can it be the frozen concetrate form like Brine Shrimps Direct's Tahitian Blend?

Thanks,
Darrell


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