Building a custom sump

[BobsBurgers]

I was looking for input and advice from someone with experience building a sump. For example, tips on how to join Plexiglas and what different chambers you might include in your design and why. I received a two-hundred-gallon tank from a friend, and I plan on having a one hundred-fifty-gallon sump with chambers for mechanical filtration, bio balls, and a refugium. I will be building this myself, so any input is appreciated!

Regards and happy reefing

[Antegon]

Originally Posted by BobsBurgers

I was looking for input and advice from someone with experience building a sump. For example, tips on how to join Plexiglas and what different chambers you might include in your design and why. I received a two-hundred-gallon tank from a friend, and I plan on having a one hundred-fifty-gallon sump with chambers for mechanical filtration, bio balls, and a refugium. I will be building this myself, so any input is appreciated!



Regards and happy reefing

Congrats on the build, very exciting!
A sump that size is gonna be awesome. I’d include your multiple intakes into the first area, into your mechanical filters (big sock filters or whatever), then baffle into an area for your skinner/heater/reactors/other toys, then bubble trap baffles into a return area with your return pump, auto-top off, etc.
On the far side of that section, make the last section of the tank your refugium. (Plumb an additional line with a valve off of your return line to feed the fuge. You can control flow and such this way) have the fuge baffle above the return section level, so that it falls into the return. (Probably want a tooth or hole system in that fuge baffle to keep everyone in)
This is totally one opinion, and at that size, you can do a lot of cool things, but those are my go-tos. I don’t have much experience with that much space in a sump, so I bet there’s a lot of other really cool designs/set ups out there as well.

Also, make sure you have enough available sump volume to accommodate all the water that could potentially drain back down if the tank lost power. (Insert debate about check valves here)

Good luck!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Lsufan]

First, is the sump glass or acrylic. If it is glass I would use glass baffles on a sump that size, or on any glass sump really. If the sump is acrylic then use acrylic baffles.

[BobsBurgers]

Antegon,

Thank you for your thoughts. I love the idea of setting up the refugium on the far side in order to control the flow to it independently over the rest of the sump. I will definitely be including that in my design.
Regards

[mcgyvr]

I'd recommend avoiding mechanical filtration and bioballs

[BobsBurgers]

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

I'd recommend avoiding mechanical filtration and bioballs

Could you elaborate as to why you would avoid those things and what you might use in place of them if anything?

Regards

[mcgyvr]

It really depends on your definition of mechanical filtration..

If thats just filter socks and you plan to run them on occasion (during maintenance,etc..) or are aware that they need frequent cleaning as they clog quite easily then thats really your choice..
I put a filter sock holder in my sump in the path of water flow but will only run it when I'm doing massive cleaning and just want to quickly capture any detritus,etc... floating around then quickly remove/clean it and put it back on the shelf..

In general mechanical filtration and bioballs have gone out of favor..
And really what we try to remove from the tanks cannot really be removed via mechanical filtration unless you are constantly removing/replacing that filter (every day or 2) and thats a maintenance nightmare IMO..

I personally avoid mechanical filtration as anything floating in the water is potential food for corals/filter feeders,etc... and I'd rather it flow through the system to be consumed/utilized than to just collect it to let it decompose/rot in a filter..

There are also better ways to increase surface area for beneficial bacteria besides bioballs..
Many just add more rock down there or things like marine pure blocks which are basically artificial rock that is highly porous foamed material that can really increase surface area..

[BobsBurgers]

Mcgyvr,

Thank you for going into detail that made it much easier to see understand what you mean. My definition of mechanical filtration is anything man made that removes organic waste or other particles in the water before it has a chance to complete the nitrogen cycle. At the moment I have a 75-gallon setup that I have to change the filter pad at least once every two days. Honestly, I don’t mind that task at all I enjoy having a cocktail and servicing my tank at the end of the day it's almost like a meditation session. So, any extra maintenance is something I planned on having.
It sounds like you would prefer to go completely natural on your filtration. May I ask how your current setup is filtered or any setup you have had in the past? I don’t mean to be nosey I am just taking down everyone’s thoughts and personal experiences before I embark on this endeavor.

Regards

[mcgyvr]

I have never had mechanical filtration in any system I've had..
4 tanks in 15 years..
Bacteria, skimmers, macro algae and corals. Thats my "filtration"

I'm currently carbon dosing (well.. barely anymore as the tank is 8+ months old so its really not needed now), using macro algae in the sump and running skimmer on my 80g system..

I'm a firm believer in having 1.5-2lbs of nice porous rock per gallon along with a 2" sand bed or so and that being plenty to sustain all the needed bacteria for a tank to just about take care of itself..

[BobsBurgers]

Mcgyvr,

That makes sense now that you mentioned you have a skimmer. I figure that probably helps take out particulates that might otherwise be caught in your filter. I always thought protein skimmers would be considered “mechanical filtration” because they are manmade. But that would be up for debate at some point considering the way they filter water is naturally occurring in the ocean.

When you say you are carbon dosing, does that mean you are using a carbon reactor? I haven’t heard of that term yet. So, sorry in advance if that is a dumb question.

Your calculations for live rock per gallon of water is very helpful, and something I have taken note of that makes a lot of sense. I am sure there is a reason mother nature uses pores rock and not bio balls haha. When you mention “2-inch layer of sand” are you referring to your display, refugium, or both? I have heard of people putting sand in their refugium’s so that would make a lot of sense either way.

Regards

[Lsufan]

I am a fan of keeping it as simple as possible. If I was to use any kind of mechanical filtration I would use filter socks. If I decided I wanted to use socks I would dedicate a section of the sump to them. I would let the drains enter a small section of the sump & overflow into the socks instead of just placing the drains straight into the socks. It makes it so much easier & quicker changing the socks with this kind of setup. Socks are one of those things that some people like to use & some people don’t. They have great tanks with people from both sides. They both work & there is no right or wrong way. To me determining if u want to use socks is a big part of designing the sump.

Something else to consider is on a system your size I would use atleast 2- 7” socks. By the time u make a drain section & sock section in the sump it will take up a good 12” of the sump. So by not doing a sock section u can make the fuge 12” bigger then if u had a sock section. That is why I say deciding on socks is a important part of the design. U don’t want to change your mind down the road & have a big sock section in the sump that is a waist of space that could have gone to the fuge. If u aren’t sure when u build the sump or u decide u may not want to use one 24/7, then it may be best just to make the skimmer section big enough to where u can install a hang on sock holder in that section if u want to use one.

Other then that I would make the skimmer section big enough to where it isn’t a pain the mess with the skimmer. Make the return section big enough to get u buy for atleast 2 or 3 days if the ato malfunctions or the ato container is empty. That way u have a little time to catch it before running your return pump dry. Then I would use all the space left over for as big of a fuge as possible.

So If u decide u want to use socks I would have a sock section, then skimmer section, then a return section, then as big of a fuge as possible. I’m also a fan of having the fuge on the end of the sump & feeding it from my return pump. Doing it that way u can make the fuge deeper from the rest of the sump, u can control the flow independently from the sump & it lets u take the fuge offline for maintenance without having to turn off the rest of the system.

[BobsBurgers]

Lsufan,

I would agree there are multiple right ways to do things depending on your preference for your tank. I would prefer to use socks or some kind of pad. However, Mcgyvr makes some excellent points as to why some people may not care for filter socks or filter pad.

Having the refugium setup independently is something I have already incorporated into my design. Honestly, it makes a lot of sense, and there would be many advantages in being able to control its flow independently from the rest of the system.

As for the size of the refugium in your opinion what would be appropriate regarding gallons for a 200-gallon tank? I ask because I haven’t cut or ordered any acrylic yet and it would be effortless to make changes if I needed to. Currently, the refugium is 22 gallons with the design I have. I feel it may be a little small, but I am not sure.

Regards

[Lsufan]

22 gallons is a ok size, I definitely wouldn’t want it any smaller. I have a 20 gallon fuge on my 150 dt & it works well, but I wouldn’t want it any smaller eighther. Overall, I think it will depend on what u want out of the fuge. I would just make it as big as possible without compromising the skimmer or return sections to much. With the fuge on the end of the sump u can always make it deeper then the rest of the sump if that will help on what u want to do with the fuge. By doing that u do have to do somthing to quiet it down because u don’t want to have more then about a 1” waterfall going over a baffle to the next section.

Do u have a drawing of what u have in mind so far that u can post a pic of.

[BobsBurgers]

Lsufan,

The primary purpose of the refugium will be to remove nitrates and add healthy vitamins and amino acids from the algae and other organic life growing in it back into the tank. From what you have said I might try to go as large as 35 gallons I thought 22 gallons might be a bit small considering when it’s all said and done there would be a total of 350 gallons of water including the sump. I have some designs drawn up, but I will have to label everything, so everyone would know what they are looking at. I should be able to do that in a few days.

Regards

[Lsufan]

The deminsions of the sump will play a part but with a 150 gallon sump it seems like u should be able to get a 35 or 40 gallon fuge.

[BobsBurgers]

Lsufan,

I can absolutely give you my dimensions briefly. The measurements I am giving are for the sump as a whole. I double checked my calculations for cubic feet before I wrote you back. I was a little off, it would be a 132-gallon sump. If that may be an issue sizing the refugium I can make it a little larger without any issues.

Length: 64 inches
Hight: 20 inches
Width: 24 and ½ inches

Here is my math:
I figured the cubic inches by 64X20X24 and divided that total by 1728 because that is how many cubic inches are in one foot. After that I multiplied that total by 7.48 because that is how many gallons fit into a cubic foot. That total was roughly 132 give or take a bit the exact math is below if you care to take a look.

64*20*24=30720 cubic inches

30720/1728=17.7 cubic feet

17.7*7.48=132.3gallons

Regards

[Vinny Kreyling]

With a sump you have to figure it will run @ about 1/2 full in order to accommodate the extra water draining from the tank& pluming on a shut down.
With baffles the 1st chamber can be taller for the fuge.

[Lsufan]

It is nice deminsions for a sump then. What I was getting at is all we knew was it was 150 or so gallons. If it was short & tall then that would effect the sump layout & sizes because like vinny mentioned, u can only run it 1/2 or so full. To me it really doesn’t do any good to have the sump run more then 10” or 11” anyway. I would have the fuge deeper then the rest of the sump being u are putting the fuge on the end.

Those dimensions should make a great sump. I don’t see why u can’t have a 40 to 50 gallon fuge.

[BobsBurgers]

Vinny Kreyling,

Lsufan,

That’s reassuring to hear regarding the overall height. Most sumps I have seen are never all the way full hence my trying to make it longer and wider. For a tank that size what size skimmer would you all recommend? Also, would it be a wise idea to have more than one skimmer for that amount of water? I will make adjustments to include a refugium that size. Honestly, I don’t see it being an issue. I think I oversized the chambers for the filter socks and protein skimmers in the first place. To be exact, the total area that the mechanical filtration and skimmer will consume is 26 inches long by 24 inches wide.

Regards,

[Vinny Kreyling]

No need for more skimmers, the right one is what you want.
As to what that may be the budget comes into play.
You can buy a BMW or a Chevy they can both get you there.
Personally I have not bought a skimmer for a Long Time so my vote is really not up to snuff. I do know however a Bubble King or Vertex are on the top of many lists.

[jwblocal701]

I forgot what size tank I used
But I had glass just about 3/16 smaller than the inside dimensions of the tank
Then used 100% pure silicone to seal and hold them in place



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[laverda]

Originally Posted by Vinny Kreyling

With a sump you have to figure it will run @ about 1/2 full in order to accommodate the extra water draining from the tank& pluming on a shut down.
With baffles the 1st chamber can be taller for the fuge.

You should be able to run the sump closer to 3/4 full depending on the plumbing in the tank. If designed properly you should not get that much drain down on powering off. RC has a calculator for this based on overflow height. If you return is below the overflow use the height of the return instead. Than add a 2 inches or more as a safety margin.
For my 300 gallons n tank my 90 gallon sump is 20” deep and the normal water level is a little over 5” from the top. With power out the water level goes to 3.25” from the top. So I still have 3” of reserve. I have both levels marked on a tape on ruler on the side of my sump.