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Unread 08/16/2018, 06:42 PM   #1
mav.23
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Drilling a Sump

Hey friends! I have a 50-gallon acrylic tank, and I have plenty of room for more fish (right now I have five, all but one are around an inch and are close to fully grown) I really want to add more fish and inverts, but I don't want there to be an ammonia or nitrate spike so I have been thinking about getting my aquarium drilled to get a sump. I think it would help if I had better gear like protein skimmer and RODI system, but I was in a hurry to get my tank set up (I had to take home these fish from school by a certain day) so I got bare minimum. I also think a wave maker would be nice for my main tank but again I don't know what to get, what type, brand, how to do it or basically anything that would or could help me with this. Any input is welcome, I'm going to try and do this whenever I have time and not a ton of stressful stuff.


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Unread 08/16/2018, 06:52 PM   #2
lapin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mav.23 View Post
Hey friends! I have a 50-gallon acrylic tank, and I have plenty of room for more fish (right now I have five, all but one are around an inch and are close to fully grown) I really want to add more fish and inverts, but I don't want there to be an ammonia or nitrate spike so I have been thinking about getting my aquarium drilled to get a sump. I think it would help if I had better gear like protein skimmer and RODI system, but I was in a hurry to get my tank set up (I had to take home these fish from school by a certain day) so I got bare minimum. I also think a wave maker would be nice for my main tank but again I don't know what to get, what type, brand, how to do it or basically anything that would or could help me with this. Any input is welcome, I'm going to try and do this whenever I have time and not a ton of stressful stuff.
Welcome
When you have time read as much as you can about how to set up a saltwater tank. Bulk Reef Supply has a lot of videos on line. There are also articles like this
http://www.reefaquarium.com/2012/set...ne-aquarium-2/
5 fish in a 50gal is about right. You dont want to pack them in unless they are sardines. No stress No worries for you or the fish.


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Unread 08/16/2018, 08:51 PM   #3
mav.23
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Originally Posted by lapin View Post
Welcome
When you have time read as much as you can about how to set up a saltwater tank. Bulk Reef Supply has a lot of videos on line. There are also articles like this
http://www.reefaquarium.com/2012/set...ne-aquarium-2/
5 fish in a 50gal is about right. You dont want to pack them in unless they are sardines. No stress No worries for you or the fish.
Thank you so much. That article is very very helpful. And I agree, I don't want my fish stressed. When they're stressed, I am. I suppose I thought I could get more because I have seen several people with large and thriving 55-gal aquariums with 10-ish fish. I guess they are lucky. Do you think if I added more live rock it would make my aquarium seem less bare? There is a lot of open water. Or is that how it should be?


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Unread 08/17/2018, 04:52 AM   #4
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How much rock do you have? Got pics?
Typically people can have between 1lb-2lb or so per gallon..
So a 50G tank can have 50-100lbs of rock..

A sump is 100% not a mandatory piece of equipment.. Neither is a skimmer..
A sump just gives you a place to hide some equipment (skimmer/fuge,etc...) and helps to increase the total water volume..

IMO since your tank is already setup there is very little reasons to spend the time/money doing a sump.. Plenty of people are successful without one..

You can get a HOB skimmer if you want..
IMO 5 x 1" max fish gives you room to add more..
What kind of fish do you have?


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Unread 08/17/2018, 07:58 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by mcgyvr View Post
How much rock do you have? Got pics?
Typically people can have between 1lb-2lb or so per gallon..
So a 50G tank can have 50-100lbs of rock..

A sump is 100% not a mandatory piece of equipment.. Neither is a skimmer..
A sump just gives you a place to hide some equipment (skimmer/fuge,etc...) and helps to increase the total water volume..

IMO since your tank is already setup there is very little reasons to spend the time/money doing a sump.. Plenty of people are successful without one..

You can get a HOB skimmer if you want..
IMO 5 x 1" max fish gives you room to add more..
What kind of fish do you have?

^^^This^^^

I ran a very successful 60g cube for 22 years, using a dual biowheel HOB filter (Marineland Emperor) and a canister filter that I used for carbon and a space for a little extra rubble rock to provide some added biological filtration. I did add a TLF 150 for GFO as needed. Otherwise, that was it. I had 6-8 smallish fish, and a variety of inverts, including BTA's, soft corals, LPS, and a number of inverts. As long as you stay on top of water changes you will be just fine. I didn't find a need to upgrade until I decided to jump into SPS (at least that was the excuse I gave the wife :-).

Good Luck, and POST PICS!!!


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Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef with 40b sump, RO 150 skimmer, AI Sol Blue x 2, and a 60g Frag Tank with 100g rubbermaid sump. 2 x Kessil A360w lights, BM curve 5 skimmer
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Unread 08/17/2018, 08:53 PM   #6
mav.23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcgyvr View Post
How much rock do you have? Got pics?
Typically people can have between 1lb-2lb or so per gallon..
So a 50G tank can have 50-100lbs of rock..

A sump is 100% not a mandatory piece of equipment.. Neither is a skimmer..
A sump just gives you a place to hide some equipment (skimmer/fuge,etc...) and helps to increase the total water volume..

IMO since your tank is already setup there is very little reasons to spend the time/money doing a sump.. Plenty of people are successful without one..

You can get a HOB skimmer if you want..
IMO 5 x 1" max fish gives you room to add more..
What kind of fish do you have?
I only have about maybe 7-10 lbs of live rock, not nearly enough I know, but I've been trying to get some gradually instead of all at once. (My lfs sells live rock expensive, idk if it is as expensive everywhere). I know sumps aren't necessary, per say, but I think increasing the water volume may benefit me. I have a terrible algae bloom and not perfect water quality. I have a Valentini puffer, two ocellaris clowns, a convict blenny (this is the only one who is over an inch and a half), yellowtail blue damselfish and an emerald crab (I named him Vader because his girlfriend died and he's kinda wacky) These fish are a few years old, before I brought them home I kept them at school. Thank you


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Unread 08/17/2018, 08:56 PM   #7
mav.23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billdogg View Post
^^^This^^^

I ran a very successful 60g cube for 22 years, using a dual biowheel HOB filter (Marineland Emperor) and a canister filter that I used for carbon and a space for a little extra rubble rock to provide some added biological filtration. I did add a TLF 150 for GFO as needed. Otherwise, that was it. I had 6-8 smallish fish, and a variety of inverts, including BTA's, soft corals, LPS, and a number of inverts. As long as you stay on top of water changes you will be just fine. I didn't find a need to upgrade until I decided to jump into SPS (at least that was the excuse I gave the wife :-).

Good Luck, and POST PICS!!!
I can get pics, but I don't know how to upload them But thank you for the advice! How were you able to fit everything in a 60, may I ask? I have always been told that there needs to be tons of space and a sump for corals.


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Unread 08/18/2018, 06:28 AM   #8
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Here's a photo of mine. The rock structure is a solid piece of pumice that I sculpted to fit with several swim-throughs and a large central cave. Because pumice floats!, I had to silicone it to the bottom.



Here's a shot of my clown and her BTA in the 60, back in the days of T12 VHO.



I have some more pictures somewhere, but Saturday calls, and I've got a crowd coming for poker tonight.


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Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef with 40b sump, RO 150 skimmer, AI Sol Blue x 2, and a 60g Frag Tank with 100g rubbermaid sump. 2 x Kessil A360w lights, BM curve 5 skimmer
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Unread 08/18/2018, 12:11 PM   #9
mav.23
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Originally Posted by billdogg View Post
Here's a photo of mine. The rock structure is a solid piece of pumice that I sculpted to fit with several swim-throughs and a large central cave. Because pumice floats!, I had to silicone it to the bottom.



Here's a shot of my clown and her BTA in the 60, back in the days of T12 VHO.



I have some more pictures somewhere, but Saturday calls, and I've got a crowd coming for poker tonight.
What a beautiful gal! And woah thank you! What a lovely aquarium. Mine is more vertical like yours, so thank you for giving me ideas for how to increase territory space! Where did you get a hunk of rock like that?


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Unread 08/18/2018, 01:37 PM   #10
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TYVM! I thought it was a great tank. I really like the footprint. The rock came from a local landscaping company. I think I paid something like 30 cents/pound for it. Before I started chopping away it tipped the scale at about #120, and by the time I finished was down to about #80. I was inspired after my first open water dives in Roatan. I have always tried to make my tanks look as "reef-like" as possible with plenty of holes/caves/overhangs/etc as possible. I figure it helps the fish to feel more at home?


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Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef with 40b sump, RO 150 skimmer, AI Sol Blue x 2, and a 60g Frag Tank with 100g rubbermaid sump. 2 x Kessil A360w lights, BM curve 5 skimmer
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Unread 08/18/2018, 03:36 PM   #11
mav.23
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TYVM! I thought it was a great tank. I really like the footprint. The rock came from a local landscaping company. I think I paid something like 30 cents/pound for it. Before I started chopping away it tipped the scale at about #120, and by the time I finished was down to about #80. I was inspired after my first open water dives in Roatan. I have always tried to make my tanks look as "reef-like" as possible with plenty of holes/caves/overhangs/etc as possible. I figure it helps the fish to feel more at home?
Yes, definitely. I love the natural look and I'm sure the fish love it too. I'll have to look for some pumice stone, although I'll need to take all of my fish out. How long did it take for the glue to set? The second biggest tank I have is my 10g hospital, so I might need to wait until petco has their next dollar per gallon sale. I appreciate all the help! Also, do you know if I could cut into an acrylic tank with the fish still in it? The tank I have doesn't have an open top, so I only have a few small openings in the top. It's a pain in the butt to put anything in.. I don't want to imagine how tricky it would be to get them out.


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Unread 08/19/2018, 07:49 AM   #12
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In hindsight, I would have gone another route entirely. Pumice, being natural volcanic glass, might contain contaminates that could adversely affect your tank. Another downside was that because the rock was siliconed to the bottom, it was quite literally impossible to catch most fish. They would just retreat into the cave and look out and laugh at my feeble attempts. It also turns out that pumice is anything but porous, so another reason to avoid it.

As for drilling your current tank - sure - just lower the water level as much as possible to decrease the pressure on the sides of the tank. I would use a brand new hole saw bit in a cordless drill with the clutch set to a very low setting, and go slow to avoid melting the acrylic. Use light pressure on the drill and use a backer board on the inside. you can just clamp it in place using a couple squeeze clamps (https://www.homedepot.com/p/DEWALT-C...196D/205418759 ) If you have all your plumbing pieces parts close to assembled it will help a long way towards avoiding down time with the circulation.

You might (should) practice a few holes on acrylic of a similar thickness so you get the hang of it first


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I'll try to be nice if you try to be smarter!
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Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef with 40b sump, RO 150 skimmer, AI Sol Blue x 2, and a 60g Frag Tank with 100g rubbermaid sump. 2 x Kessil A360w lights, BM curve 5 skimmer
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Unread 08/19/2018, 09:24 AM   #13
mav.23
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Originally Posted by billdogg View Post
In hindsight, I would have gone another route entirely. Pumice, being natural volcanic glass, might contain contaminates that could adversely affect your tank. Another downside was that because the rock was siliconed to the bottom, it was quite literally impossible to catch most fish. They would just retreat into the cave and look out and laugh at my feeble attempts. It also turns out that pumice is anything but porous, so another reason to avoid it.

As for drilling your current tank - sure - just lower the water level as much as possible to decrease the pressure on the sides of the tank. I would use a brand new hole saw bit in a cordless drill with the clutch set to a very low setting, and go slow to avoid melting the acrylic. Use light pressure on the drill and use a backer board on the inside. you can just clamp it in place using a couple squeeze clamps (https://www.homedepot.com/p/DEWALT-C...196D/205418759 ) If you have all your plumbing pieces parts close to assembled it will help a long way towards avoiding down time with the circulation.

You might (should) practice a few holes on acrylic of a similar thickness so you get the hang of it first
thanks, I was worried shards would fly in the tank and kill the fish, but if you think it’s okay, I’ll plan on cutting the top off.


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Unread 08/19/2018, 09:40 AM   #14
mav.23
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Originally Posted by billdogg View Post
In hindsight, I would have gone another route entirely. Pumice, being natural volcanic glass, might contain contaminates that could adversely affect your tank. Another downside was that because the rock was siliconed to the bottom, it was quite literally impossible to catch most fish. They would just retreat into the cave and look out and laugh at my feeble attempts. It also turns out that pumice is anything but porous, so another reason to avoid it.

As for drilling your current tank - sure - just lower the water level as much as possible to decrease the pressure on the sides of the tank. I would use a brand new hole saw bit in a cordless drill with the clutch set to a very low setting, and go slow to avoid melting the acrylic. Use light pressure on the drill and use a backer board on the inside. you can just clamp it in place using a couple squeeze clamps (https://www.homedepot.com/p/DEWALT-C...196D/205418759 ) If you have all your plumbing pieces parts close to assembled it will help a long way towards avoiding down time with the circulation.

You might (should) practice a few holes on acrylic of a similar thickness so you get the hang of it first
What type of stone do you recommend? Live rock is pretty expensive, but I guess I could save up for a while to get a nice big hunk. Unless there is something else that you know of


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Unread 08/19/2018, 09:55 AM   #15
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I would be careful cutting the top off an acrylic tank. Once you cut the center bracing out it will bow and possibly crack.
Cheers! Mark


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Unread 08/19/2018, 10:03 AM   #16
mav.23
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I would be careful cutting the top off an acrylic tank. Once you cut the center bracing out it will bow and possibly crack.
Cheers! Mark
Thanks for the advice! The center is already out, but they are only narrow holes for lights, food and other things. It is very difficult to clean the tank, add fish, or remove them.


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Unread 08/19/2018, 11:15 AM   #17
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My comments about drilling were for a side panel! The bracing on the top (google "eurobracing") needs to remain intact because it is what prevents the tank from bowing out (and possible failing) from the pressure of the water column.

Drilling the side so that you can add a sump is a pretty straightforward DIY project. Make sure you have the bulkhead first so that you drill the correct size hole.

Pictures would help a lot in deciding what the best course of action is for your system.

As for the type of rock to use - Your LFS should have at least some dry rock for sale - around here usually in the 3-5$/lb range. It should look like it is made of old coral skeletons and will be very porous, or perhaps some "texas holey rock" which, although not as porous, will have (as the name implies) numerous holes of various sizes throughout.

IMHO, there is rarely a great need to "cure" dry rock, but some has been known to leech PO4 into your water for a short time, which can lead to unwanted algae growth. Personally, I've never worried about that - the "new tank uglies" are just a normal part of the cycle of any new tank and ALL tanks will go through them to one extent or another.


I prefer to start my systems with a majority of dry rock and dry sand - a small amount of live sand will help to jumpstart your cycle. (a cupful from your LFS or a local reefer is plenty) You can also use some decent live rock, but in many cases, the stuff being sold as "live" at your LFS is just some dry rock that they have sitting in a tub with saltwater in it, and not really "live" like it should be.

You might take a look at www.tampabaysaltwater.com if you want real live rock, although it can come with some surprise hitchhikers (some good/some bad). There are a number of vendors similar to TBS, but I have always heard great things about them and the quality of their LR.


HTH!


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I'll try to be nice if you try to be smarter!
I can't help that I grow older, but you can't make me grow up!

Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef with 40b sump, RO 150 skimmer, AI Sol Blue x 2, and a 60g Frag Tank with 100g rubbermaid sump. 2 x Kessil A360w lights, BM curve 5 skimmer
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Unread 08/19/2018, 11:50 AM   #18
mav.23
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Originally Posted by billdogg View Post
My comments about drilling were for a side panel! The bracing on the top (google "eurobracing") needs to remain intact because it is what prevents the tank from bowing out (and possible failing) from the pressure of the water column.

Drilling the side so that you can add a sump is a pretty straightforward DIY project. Make sure you have the bulkhead first so that you drill the correct size hole.

Pictures would help a lot in deciding what the best course of action is for your system.

As for the type of rock to use - Your LFS should have at least some dry rock for sale - around here usually in the 3-5$/lb range. It should look like it is made of old coral skeletons and will be very porous, or perhaps some "texas holey rock" which, although not as porous, will have (as the name implies) numerous holes of various sizes throughout.

IMHO, there is rarely a great need to "cure" dry rock, but some has been known to leech PO4 into your water for a short time, which can lead to unwanted algae growth. Personally, I've never worried about that - the "new tank uglies" are just a normal part of the cycle of any new tank and ALL tanks will go through them to one extent or another.


I prefer to start my systems with a majority of dry rock and dry sand - a small amount of live sand will help to jumpstart your cycle. (a cupful from your LFS or a local reefer is plenty) You can also use some decent live rock, but in many cases, the stuff being sold as "live" at your LFS is just some dry rock that they have sitting in a tub with saltwater in it, and not really "live" like it should be.

You might take a look at www.tampabaysaltwater.com if you want real live rock, although it can come with some surprise hitchhikers (some good/some bad). There are a number of vendors similar to TBS, but I have always heard great things about them and the quality of their LR.


HTH!
Oooooh okay. I'll have to be more careful next time buying a tank. I'm glad drilling a sump isn't too bad. I always wondered if the "dry rock" they sold at my lfs was safe for aquariums, but I will definitely look into it and possibly clean it in some saltwater beforehand just to be safe. I really appreciate all the help you've given me! Happy fish keeping and thank you for the help!


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