DSB in a bucket for nitrate control

[Dag]

In this setup, the author flowed the water through the plenum and then the water would be forced to flow up though the sand.

This sounds like the undergravel system I used in the 70s.

[nyvp]

Anthony so in a 55g tank how deep do I want the sand to be?

[AnnArborBuck]

Originally posted by Dag
This sounds like the undergravel system I used in the 70s.

Somewhat, but he used a very fine sand and about a 18 inch layer of it with a very slow flow rate. I will look tonight to see if I can find the article, just depends on when I get home from work.

[captbunzo]

Originally posted by nyvp
Anthony so in a 55g tank how deep do I want the sand to be?

If the entire point of the vessel is to serve as a RDSB, then you would fill it up until there was maybe 1-2 inches of water flowing over the top. Then make sure that you have enough flow to keep solids from settling into the sand. With 1-2 inches of water, that is only 2.7 - 5.4 gallons total. So even the most modest amount of flow across the top should be sufficient.

Let us know how this works out for you!

[fishfeeder]

Originally posted by AnnArborBuck
Wasn't there an article in one of the recent Reef Magazines (hard copy, not Reef Central's, it's a yearly mag) that talked about DSBs. In particular, they discussed a new system that was being tried that that implemented a remote deep sand bed with a a plenum. In this setup, the author flowed the water through the plenum and then the water would be forced to flow up though the sand. He used red dye to track flow of water through the sand to see the movement of the water. From what I remember the experiments went pretty well.

I actually like this idea better because then you don't have to worry about creating a plenum, solids in the plenum, etc.

Diffusion at it's greatest, so simple, yet so powerfull.

The Magazine is "Marine Fish & Reef". It was the 2005 Annual. It was called an "Upside down sand bed"...where water was administered exactly as you were speaking of. Great article, actually very interesting read...FWIW.

Jay

[captbunzo]

I posted this question in another thread, but thought it might be more appropriate here.

Is it ok to use the (thoroughly rinsed) sand from a display tank in a RDSB?

[Thales]

Yes

[kysmith]

OK so here is my question (I've read the whole thing). I was going to do a 10G fuge, but now I'm thinking of doing just a 10G RDSB it seems like I might get better results out of this from reading. Plus I'll save $$ on my electric bill.

Also from what I'm reading it sounds like no one is seeing this sand, don't you need to seed it for it to work?

[Herpervet]

I know this has been discussed already but how do you prevent the entire bucket from turning into a solid rock of sand?

I am using aragonite and the top layer sets up. So far I have been manually crushing it up but I am afraid deeper levels of sand could set up and create problems.

Will silica sand set up like this?

If not it might be a strong arguement in its favor not to mention the cost of aragonite.

[kysmith]

Originally posted by Herpervet
I know this has been discussed already but how do you prevent the entire bucket from turning into a solid rock of sand?

I am using aragonite and the top layer sets up. So far I have been manually crushing it up but I am afraid deeper levels of sand could set up and create problems.

Will silica sand set up like this?

If not it might be a strong arguement in its favor not to mention the cost of aragonite.

AC says to keep your PH high to avoid this >8.3

[Anthony Calfo]

the gist of it is indeed keeping pH high and stable, and also to not spike the tank with your Ca/Alk additions.

Folks that add kalkwasser too much or too fast, for example, have "enjoyed" the sand bed fusing in clumps as I seem to recall.

But it is not an inevitability with aragonite... just with poorly managed aragonite

Randy Holmes Farley and the Chem forum folks are much better to chat to about this though for the hows and whys.

[reverendmaynard]

Is there any reason I shouldn't use crushed coral substrate if I have one of these RDSBs? Will CC limit my fish/coral selection? Would there be enough buffering capacity with 1" of CC to use silica sand in the RDSB?

[Herpervet]

Originally posted by Anthony Calfo
the gist of it is indeed keeping pH high and stable, and also to not spike the tank with your Ca/Alk additions.

Folks that add kalkwasser too much or too fast, for example, have "enjoyed" the sand bed fusing in clumps as I seem to recall.

But it is not an inevitability with aragonite... just with poorly managed aragonite

Randy Holmes Farley and the Chem forum folks are much better to chat to about this though for the hows and whys.

Interesting. I have had the dsb buckets for only about 2 months and already getting clumping. The system is new and only had rock in it for the same period of time.

Ph is running 8.4 to 8.5. (No I havn't calibrated lately but did 2 months ago)

No Kalk but a Precision Marine calcium reactor.

[prezioso73]

(I have read the entire thread)

THis thread is great!!!
I hope this is the answer to my GHA problem.
It has to be I have tried everything else!

[Anthony Calfo]

Herpervet... re: your clumping, I'm wondering what your livestock inventory is (fish and invert) and your water flow. Can you detail for us? I'm thinking a lack of "bioturbation" may be a contributing factor for your clumping.

[Glimmerman911]

Read the entire thread, might lose my job because of it, but it was worth it.

I have a 180g display, hoping to get some info on what size container I should use. I have at my disposal round or square 5g buckets, a 5g tank, 10g tank, 20g tank, 25g tank, or a 50g tank.

I am leaning towards the 10g tank, but then it would not be very deep once I install bulkheads.

Would 2, 5g buckets have the same benefit as a larger 10g container?

[Herpervet]

Originally posted by Anthony Calfo
Herpervet... re: your clumping, I'm wondering what your livestock inventory is (fish and invert) and your water flow. Can you detail for us? I'm thinking a lack of "bioturbation" may be a contributing factor for your clumping.

This is a new system. Put 500 pounds of rock in it about 2.5 months ago. Will be stocking it soon.

I thought that the dsb bucket wasn't reliant on infauna to stir it up. Is that what you are refering to when you say "bioturbation".

If thats the answer I will add sand bed critters to each bucket.

[KEstep]

Everyone needs to reread the entire thread. All the answers to these questions have been discussed before.

[Glimmerman911]

I dont think this has been answered, if I get silica play sand, should I rinse it before use in a RDSB?

[KEstep]

I would rinse to get debris out of it. I would rinse almost anything before adding to your tank.

[jefathome]

Originally posted by Anthony Calfo
either will work, but I'll suggest the length instead.

Lets say that you are using a set "container" for your RDSB...
Would there be any benefit to having some sort of Baffle that runs 80% of the way across the contianer with input/output on the same side vs. input on one side adn out on the other?

Surface area is the same, but the water has to travel farther.

[kysmith]

What about seeding I'm not seeing if people are seeding their RDSB's or not. Do you literally just put new sand in a bucket and hook it up, or should you add a cup of live sand to the mix? I read the entire thread if I missed this detail I apologize.

[hans1976]

This is great reading. I keep reading how the water should flow across this. Yet when I look at Bill Shultz's setup (pg 7), he is running the water up and through it. So which way is right?

[AnnArborBuck]

Originally posted by hans1976
This is great reading. I keep reading how the water should flow across this. Yet when I look at Bill Shultz's setup (pg 7), he is running the water up and through it. So which way is right?

If you look at Bill's setup the pipe comes up through the sand then then directs the output above the sand. He just plumbed it that way so the pump could sit below the bucket.

[Glimmerman911]

While that is true, you can have the pump below without having the plumbing go through the bucket, it could go beside the bucket obvisously, just pointing it out for newbie plumbers.