MTC marine technical concepts still open

[Chicago]

anyone hear form these guys in the past two months. I ordered some part paid and am still waiting. Hope is all well with them as I found them to be great in the past. Phone just rings when I call.

[USC-fan]

Seem like it just a side business for them. I dunno you are not the first person to say this. Very poor way to run a business.

they been makimg skimmer for 20 years it seems. I have no idea why they a mention so much given how out date the skimmer tech is they use. They are one of the few that still makes these type of skimmer.

15-20 ago this type of skimmer is what everyone used. Then nw wheel skimmer came ago and the rest is history.

[d2mini]

Originally Posted by USC-fan

15-20 ago this type of skimmer is what everyone used. Then nw wheel skimmer came ago and the rest is history.

And nothing good came of it other than lower power consumption and smaller skimmers.
Venturi skimmers are still the best!

[USC-fan]

Originally Posted by d2mini

And nothing good came of it other than lower power consumption and smaller skimmers.
Venturi skimmers are still the best!

And a lot better performance, better dc pumps and almost silent skimmer. Also require little to no adjustment. Much better deaign that are simple to take apart and clean. This is what happen when most of skimmers sold are nw. It get all the r&d money.

Venturi are best at the immeasurable. Anything measureable not so much.

[d2mini]

Originally Posted by USC-fan

And a lot better performance, better dc pumps and almost silent skimmer. Also require little to no adjustment. Much better deaign that are simple to take apart and clean. This is what happen when most of skimmers sold are nw. It get all the r&d money.

Venturi are best at the immeasurable. Anything measureable not so much.

You are mistaken.
One single adjustment with my lifereef, set and forget, no maintenance other than draining the cup every few days, no proprietary pump... you can use anything at your lfs, and if you believe the performance is better with NW and cone skimmers, you just got duped by the marketing hype. My LR is also just as easy to take apart and clean and NOTHING makes it go ape. Ever. As long as the water level is consistent (it will run in a wide range of water levels no problem) it doesn't matter what I feed or dose.

Smaller foot print and lower power consumption are the ONLY benefits.
I've had a range of different skimmers over the years and a well designed venturi tops them all for performance, consistency and ease of use.

There has not been any new "technology" to improve skimming... just sales. The only way for competing companies to boost sales to come up with some new design. The basic principals remain the same. Your R&D is all a bunch of b.s.

[jason2459]

A bubble is a bubble. What ever is able to make nice small bubbles with out popping to soon is just as effective as the next. Overall, none of them are very efficient mechanical filters. Venturi skimmers can be just as or more or less efficient then a NW. Same can be said for Becket, Stone, Down draft, Spray injection, etc.

[ca1ore]

Originally Posted by USC-fan

And a lot better performance, better dc pumps and almost silent skimmer. Also require little to no adjustment. Much better deaign that are simple to take apart and clean. This is what happen when most of skimmers sold are nw. It get all the r&d money.

Venturi are best at the immeasurable. Anything measureable not so much.

Hard to follow your posts with all the typos and grammatical errors .... though enough to believe that you really don't know skimmers ... or just fall for the marketing hype.

MTC have been making skimmers for a lot longer than 20 years, and as a user of their products for almost 30 years, I'd stack their stuff up against any of the extruded junk that most people buy.

[ca1ore]

Originally Posted by Chicago

anyone hear form these guys in the past two months. I ordered some part paid and am still waiting. Hope is all well with them as I found them to be great in the past. Phone just rings when I call.

I'd suggest perseverance. Spoke with Jeff a couple of weeks ago and I know he's had some health issues. Early afternoon seems to be the best time to reach him. I'd asked him to make me something and he said he had to get to some back orders first.

[USC-fan]

Originally Posted by d2mini

You are mistaken.
One single adjustment with my lifereef, set and forget, no maintenance other than draining the cup every few days, no proprietary pump... you can use anything at your lfs, and if you believe the performance is better with NW and cone skimmers, you just got duped by the marketing hype. My LR is also just as easy to take apart and clean and NOTHING makes it go ape. Ever. As long as the water level is consistent (it will run in a wide range of water levels no problem) it doesn't matter what I feed or dose.

Smaller foot print and lower power consumption are the ONLY benefits.
I've had a range of different skimmers over the years and a well designed venturi tops them all for performance, consistency and ease of use.

There has not been any new "technology" to improve skimming... just sales. The only way for competing companies to boost sales to come up with some new design. The basic principals remain the same. Your R&D is all a bunch of b.s.

There are newer designs where water level doesnt matter. Like the type of skimmer i use. Recirculating NW designs can run in any water level or none at all. Changes in water level do not effect the skimmer performance.

Also only few model have a pump that must be use. These are a space saver type model with the pump built in. You can use many different type of NW wheels pump. In fact i plan to upgrade my pump to new DC nw pump. Better performance at almost half the power usage.

Thats your opinion, not a fact. There is a reason most people use one type of skimmer. I never said one performs better than the other. They all work but NW have many advantages over older tech. It why most people use these types of skimmers and are very happy with the results. I dont think it even debatable that nw skimmer produce great results.

Think it silly to say it just marketing BS. When you go to lifereef site is nothing but marketing talk and how NW skimmer are just terrible. It very funny. how they got it right 25 years ago and nothing has changed. Who fell for marketing again?

NW skimmer have advance greatly in the last 15 years. To say over wise is just silly.

Clearly all these skimmer technology works. Some just do it without massive pumps and size. Like i said i used these skimmer back in the day. the funny thing is the pump i used back then uses more power than my whole tank does without a heater on today.

Originally Posted by jason2459

A bubble is a bubble. What ever is able to make nice small bubbles with out popping to soon is just as effective as the next. Overall, none of them are very efficient mechanical filters. Venturi skimmers can be just as or more or less efficient then a NW. Same can be said for Becket, Stone, Down draft, Spray injection, etc.

Yeah it just about making bubbles.

Originally Posted by ca1ore

Hard to follow your posts with all the typos and grammatical errors .... though enough to believe that you really don't know skimmers ... or just fall for the marketing hype.

MTC have been making skimmers for a lot longer than 20 years, and as a user of their products for almost 30 years, I'd stack their stuff up against any of the extruded junk that most people buy.

Yep mr skimmer expert. that been using the same skimmer for 30 years. And of course is on first name basic with the owner of the company. Yep everything else is just "junk."

Yeah just marketing hype again.... Strange trend im seeing here..... No shills at all.

[oseymour]

Originally Posted by d2mini

There has not been any new "technology" to improve skimming... just sales. The only way for competing companies to boost sales to come up with some new design. The basic principals remain the same. Your R&D is all a bunch of b.s.

I don't know much about needle wheel vs venturi skimmers I just use what's recommended and what I like. I've only been in the hobby a few years.

But whenever anyone says something so definitive where they downplay or dismiss new technology in any industry, they are almost always wrong.

So you are basically saying a 20 year old design is definitively better than anything new released since? I find that hard to believe...

[biecacka]

I think that new technology is a lot of hype. It's a competitive market. But they work. I don't deny that! I also think old technology works just as well. Research has proven that a skimmer of both types only removes about 30% DOC's. So they all do the job. Some are just way less finicky than others. Venturi and becket skimmers perform solid and anyone who thinks otherwise has probably never used one. Yes they are old...but look at a lot of the bigger systems on this site or others that have longevity, quite a bit of them use "older technology" because there is no doubt it works.

Corey

[Chicago]

Just my two cents on a comment about being on a first name basis with an owner of a company. I can tell you I recall the man's name Jeff because he is very courteous, answered all my questions and when I bought this piece of equipment it was packaged well and he followed up with a call to me asking how the unit was working. I have since bought one of his calcium reactor's and Jeff and I spent many many phone calls with me going over Ways to set it up ..dial it in ..the best way to operate ...so of course I too would remember his name. The reason I asked if anybody had heard from Jeff lately is because it's unusual for him not to get back to me. He went over my order with me to modify my skimmer. He is the type of owner that will literally talk to you and go over his designs. Because , at least my impression is, he like building his products..In fact when I purchased the calcium reactor he did a modification of the design in order to have a pH probe installed. I've used his skimmer for over 10 years and skims like crazy. Yes it is a Beckett design. It is quality construction . just my two cents I'm sure there are other units out there that are just as nice.

[Chicago]

Specs on contact time would be helpful. I can say after y
Using many skimmers it appears the beast skimmer I have that sits in my 350 gallon horse feed sump has some great contact time.

[ca1ore]

Originally Posted by USC-fan

Yep mr skimmer expert. that been using the same skimmer for 30 years. And of course is on first name basic with the owner of the company. Yep everything else is just "junk."

Yeah just marketing hype again.... Strange trend im seeing here..... No shills at all.

English is a wonderfully nuanced language with all sorts of words to convey meaning. You may have noted my use of the word 'productS' ... note the 'S' (I've capitalized it for you). So, I've actually used three of their skimmers, not one.

That I am on a first name basis (not basic) is simply a function of the small-business/sole-proprietorship nature of this hobby. I'd have thought that self-evident.

Do you even know what the word 'shill' means? I simply noted that I'd 'stack their stuff up against any of the extruded junk that most people buy'. Doesn't seem like shilling to me. Perhaps overly hyperbolic, as many of the extruded skimmers are actually quite serviceable (having used some myself) and not always 'junk'.

[ca1ore]

Originally Posted by Chicago

Specs on contact time would be helpful. I can say after y
Using many skimmers it appears the beast skimmer I have that sits in my 350 gallon horse feed sump has some great contact time.

My current MTC skimmer (there I go again, shilly me) was modified from its original design to incorporate a taller tower for exactly that reason: longer contact time. 1,000 words .....

[USC-fan]

Originally Posted by ca1ore

English is a wonderfully nuanced language with all sorts of words to convey meaning. You may have noted my use of the word 'productS' ... note the 'S' (I've capitalized it for you). So, I've actually used three of their skimmers, not one.

That I am on a first name basis (not basic) is simply a function of the small-business/sole-proprietorship nature of this hobby. I'd have thought that self-evident.

Do you even know what the word 'shill' means? I simply noted that I'd 'stack their stuff up against any of the extruded junk that most people buy'. Doesn't seem like shilling to me. Perhaps overly hyperbolic, as many of the extruded skimmers are actually quite serviceable (having used some myself) and not always 'junk'.

yeah talk down to people who first language isnt english. that the best you got? LOL This is an international sites with many member who dont speak perfect English.

Dont talk about any points in the thread but just come defend the products. Anyone can just look at these dated skimmer design and see for themselves. LOL Need to talk to your buddy about adding a quick disconnect skimmer cup as standard. Its 2016 and one no wants to have screws to take off just to clean to skimmer cup. But everything else is junk, too funny.

Originally Posted by ca1ore

My current MTC skimmer (there I go again, shilly me) was modified from its original design to incorporate a taller tower for exactly that reason: longer contact time. 1,000 words .....

See why the skimmer neck so dirty. Pain to remove all those screws to clean it. LOL 2016!!!

[Chicago]

A dirty skimmer neck means it's doing the job. My lid takes about teenty seconds to remove. .. my tank volume is 900 gallons so I needed seething that put through a lot of water. Every type of skimmer will have pros and cons.

Usc., resoecfully I do not think anyone was attacking you or your native first native language not being English.

[d2mini]

Originally Posted by oseymour

So you are basically saying a 20 year old design is definitively better than anything new released since? I find that hard to believe...

I thought the goofy smiley would have conveyed a little bit of playfulness in my comment, but I suppose I should have said they have worked best for me based on what I want in a skimmer. If by "performance" you mean it removes more DOCs, then no, neither type of skimmer is better. That's my point. All these "technological advances" have not produced a better skimmer. It's been my experience that a solid venturi design skims just as well but with much less hassle and more consistency. I don't go sticking my fingers in the cup in hopes of making a skim mate sandwich. I just like seeing a full cup every few days, every week, every month, every year... with no input from me. Like an old Timex, it just works. I don't have experience with Beckett's so I can't comment on those.

Originally Posted by USC-fan

You can use many different type of NW wheels pump.

But you probably will have to order a new pump. If I wake up to a dead skimmer pump, I prefer being able to just run out to my LFS and grab something. People are running DC pumps now too so less power consumption and still easy to get local.

Originally Posted by USC-fan

NW have many advantages over older tech.

Which are? Besides the compactness and less power draw I already mentioned.

Originally Posted by USC-fan

Think it silly to say it just marketing BS. When you go to lifereef site is nothing but marketing talk and how NW skimmer are just terrible. It very funny. how they got it right 25 years ago and nothing has changed. Who fell for marketing again?

He is a little over zealous and very proud of his products but if you read the testimonials, you can't really fault him for it. His skimmers don't stay in stock for long. And his custom orders can have up to a 6 month backlog. There is good reason for this.

Originally Posted by USC-fan

NW skimmer have advance greatly in the last 15 years. To say over wise is just silly.

Maybe they have, I should hope so. And I never said otherwise. Just said they didn't skim better than older styles.

[CHSUB]

very happy with my NW skimmer performance, didn't realize it was "extruded junk that most people buy". maybe i should run out and buy something new from MTC!!!

http://

[d2mini]

Originally Posted by CHSUB

very happy with my NW skimmer performance, didn't realize it was "extruded junk that most people buy". maybe i should run out and buy something new from MTC!!!

I wouldn't call that junk either. I don't think that's what ca1ore was referring to.

I had a very similar Vertex Alpha 250 and could never get it dialed in right. Very nicely built. I just found it over priced for how it performed and over complicated. The LR skimmer I went with was half the price and worked so much better for me.

[scar79]

This thread has turned a bit messy, but just to confirm, I talked to Jeff last week and he has had some health issues going on in the last few months. Not sounding in a great place. Leo is still around in some capacity as well, but I wouldn't expect them to be firing out product anytime soon.

Great guys and a great company. Their product is reliable and well priced for what it is (domestic and bullet-proof). I've never counted on them for rush jobs, but as long as your expectations match their relaxed business style (no call waiting, no answering machine) they are wonderful to deal with. Sure it might take them a month to produce a new unit, but they don't knock the door down holding an invoice either.

[ca1ore]

Originally Posted by d2mini

I wouldn't call that junk either. I don't think that's what ca1ore was referring to.

Indeed not. I guess people get a bit sensitive about their skimmers. I conceded to engaging in a bit of hyperbole in an effort to make the subtle point that quality is worth investing in. And I DO think that many of the skimmers available for purchase are extruded junk ; including I might add, the multiple DiY skimmers I attempted when Tunze was about the only commercial game in town. Time to move on from this thread me thinks.

[CHSUB]

Originally Posted by ca1ore

Indeed not. I guess people get a bit sensitive about their skimmers. I conceded to engaging in a bit of hyperbole in an effort to make the subtle point that quality is worth investing in. And I DO think that many of the skimmers available for purchase are extruded junk ; including I might add, the multiple DiY skimmers I attempted when Tunze was about the only commercial game in town. Time to move on from this thread me thinks.

insulting my skimmer is like insulting my mom, my dog, my country!!!!!
... But don't ever take sides with anyone against the Family again!!!!

[JPMagyar]

Because I maintain and have maintained multiple tanks at a time I have had the pleasure of trying numerous skimmers including my latest DC pump skimmer. Although it is true there have been changes in style and power I disagree vehemently that this represents significant improvement. Just like LEDs the single biggest cost in skimmers is not power but initial purchase. How many people use their skimmer or light longer than 10 years? Answer: very, very few. Saving a few pennies a year on a DC pump is nothing compared to the initial purchase price.

Second, and to me of far greater importance, is reliability and overflow protection. Modern skimmers, especially in sump varieties, will ALWAYS some day or other overflow, or worse if you have a lift-off top and use the skimmer externally the skimmer can overflow and dump water all over the floor.

Third, the pumps don't last as long in a reef with lots of healthy growth. On average the needle wheel skimmers I have tried over the years lasted 3 months or so before I had to disassemble and clean the needle wheel and the pumps have yet to last longer than about 2 years before calcium carbonate buildup ruined the pump and required replacement or at the very least a new part or two.

Fourth the external airtight collection cup can be large enough to allow cleaning once a month. Let's see you try that with an in sump needle wheel DC pump skimmer.

Fifth, my skimmer doesn't care what the water level is. The skimmer intake is in the bottom of the sump. Water level is irrelevant, and setup is trivial. Install the intake line, turn on the pump, adjust the air intake to the height you like, and you're done . . . forever . . .

Lastly contact time, volume, and through-put. The very tiny amount of research that has been done on skimmers has shown that contact time and volume were the biggest determinate of efficiency. I guarantee that no modern skimmer has longer contact time or greater volume than my MTC HSA.

My MTC HSA 1000 is 15 years old. My Iwaki 55 is also 15 years old. On the occasion where my skimmer goes nuts for some reason my air tight screwed in collection cup with waste collector has saved the day by "sealing" off the waste cup from further collection. No mess on the floor, no waste dumping back into the sump.

Long story short. . .

Marketing hype reigns supreme once again.

Do "modern" skimmers work more efficiently from an electric standpoint? Yes. Do they represent any improvement in actual waste removal? Emphatically NO!

Skimmer's like lights are a personal choice and that's what makes the world a wonderful place in which to live because there is a choice for everybody, but if you think old tech like the MTC HSA is somehow a lesser choice just because its "old" you are sadly mistaken.

[CHSUB]

Originally Posted by JPMagyar

Because I maintain and have maintained multiple tanks at a time I have had the pleasure of trying numerous skimmers including my latest DC pump skimmer. Although it is true there have been changes in style and power I disagree vehemently that this represents significant improvement. Just like LEDs the single biggest cost in skimmers is not power but initial purchase. How many people use their skimmer or light longer than 10 years? Answer: very, very few. Saving a few pennies a year on a DC pump is nothing compared to the initial purchase price.

Second, and to me of far greater importance, is reliability and overflow protection. Modern skimmers, especially in sump varieties, will ALWAYS some day or other overflow, or worse if you have a lift-off top and use the skimmer externally the skimmer can overflow and dump water all over the floor.

Third, the pumps don't last as long in a reef with lots of healthy growth. On average the needle wheel skimmers I have tried over the years lasted 3 months or so before I had to disassemble and clean the needle wheel and the pumps have yet to last longer than about 2 years before calcium carbonate buildup ruined the pump and required replacement or at the very least a new part or two.

Fourth the external airtight collection cup can be large enough to allow cleaning once a month. Let's see you try that with an in sump needle wheel DC pump skimmer.

Fifth, my skimmer doesn't care what the water level is. The skimmer intake is in the bottom of the sump. Water level is irrelevant, and setup is trivial. Install the intake line, turn on the pump, adjust the air intake to the height you like, and you're done . . . forever . . .

Lastly contact time, volume, and through-put. The very tiny amount of research that has been done on skimmers has shown that contact time and volume were the biggest determinate of efficiency. I guarantee that no modern skimmer has longer contact time or greater volume than my MTC HSA.

My MTC HSA 1000 is 15 years old. My Iwaki 55 is also 15 years old. On the occasion where my skimmer goes nuts for some reason my air tight screwed in collection cup with waste collector has saved the day by "sealing" off the waste cup from further collection. No mess on the floor, no waste dumping back into the sump.

Long story short. . .

Marketing hype reigns supreme once again.

Do "modern" skimmers work more efficiently from an electric standpoint? Yes. Do they represent any improvement in actual waste removal? Emphatically NO!

Skimmer's like lights are a personal choice and that's what makes the world a wonderful place in which to live because there is a choice for everybody, but if you think old tech like the MTC HSA is somehow a lesser choice just because its "old" you are sadly mistaken.


[/IMG]

alot of writing and points, however, almost no substance.....

all pumps need cleaning and fail. all skimmers can overflow for one reason or another: mine uses an overflow stopper. most "modern" skimmers all work about the same, mine and yours; that's a fact!!!! not sure what hype has to do with a skimmer, most work well.......if you're going to post your "blue" tank, don't bother, i've seen it; and prefer tanks that look more natural: with corals that sway and calcify and colors that look more like my frequent dives.