Learning/rebuilding from my epic fail

[nemodan]

Happy new year Matt !!

Daniel

[westreef]

Happy New Year, Matt !!!

Last year you have been very diligent in posting those very nice pictures. Please keep doing it this coming new year. We all enjoy them very much.

[Rakie]

Pink matrix is looking good!

[codydemmel4]

Hey Matt.

every triton test I have gotten my strontium is always low, around 2-3 so I was thinking about dosing it. I saw you dosed some back in May. I wanted to see if you are still dosing and if so, have you noticed a difference in anything or what is your experience?

[reefmutt]

Originally Posted by codydemmel4

Hey Matt.

every triton test I have gotten my strontium is always low, around 2-3 so I was thinking about dosing it. I saw you dosed some back in May. I wanted to see if you are still dosing and if so, have you noticed a difference in anything or what is your experience?

Hey Cody, the fact that you have constant measurable sr. means your tank is always getting some..
I tried dosing for only a short while but didn’t find it really helped anything..
I abandoned using it pretty quick..

[reefmutt]

Originally Posted by westreef

Happy New Year, Matt !!!

Last year you have been very diligent in posting those very nice pictures. Please keep doing it this coming new year. We all enjoy them very much.

Hey Bernie, happy new year!
And happy new year to everybody- Daniel, Matt, Wally
And thanks for all the positive comments!
Sorry I have gotten behind the 8 ball.. gotta catch up!

[reefmutt]

Originally Posted by codydemmel4

Matt as always everything is looking great!

With your levels that high, what do you think contributes to you not having much bad algae? Everytime mine get high, I get this really annoying green turf algae. I wish I could keep my levels maybe a little below yours but high as my corals always look the best then but at the same time green turf algae takes over.

Also, how are your levels that high? Are you feeding a ton everyday?

So, my po4 has virtually never, in the 4 year existence of this tank, been below .1- only here and there for short periods of time..
-even when I was using pounds of gfo did it only get maybe to .08- which isn’t bad but wasn’t sustainable due to just how much gfo was required.
Since implementing or re implementing the cheato fuge about a year ago (maybe more), n got right down to very low- like around 1 or less- p stayed between .08-.16.
When I dosed fluconazole a few months ago, most algaes in the system began to disappear- even the cheato took a serious hit- n and p jumped dramatically. N was back to about 40 and n the highest ever- over .25. My Hanna po4 tester actually said .35 but my elos never got over .3
Since then, I replaced the cheato added moreligjt and time the the fuge photo period and I think recently I have cracked the 10 ppm level - maybe 7 ppm and p is below .2- probably around .16.
I’m pretty sure they will both continue to fall a bit more with the cheato growing rapidly.
I really think the the cheato is doing a pretty good job or out competing most other algae at the moment.. I was getting brown snotty stuff in the frag tank but the addition of 10 turbos eradicated it in a week. I also have a bit of cyano in the frag tank but not a lot and a bit of what looks like dynos on the sand of the dt but again only a small amount..
I am assuming that the recent (and sorely needed) reno of my ro unit will help that.. not to mention that my nutrients will drop a bit more..
I only feed 10 cubes of frozen food a day and a pinch of flake.
And I have a truckload of siporax, seachem matrix and AF Life biofil which really does very little for reducing n..
Why is my p chronically high?? Good question.. maybe it was the old live rock that I originally used form an old fish only system.. after all this time, though.. I really don’t know..
Personally, I think the most effective control for algae- long term is simply natural consumer.. urchins, snails, hermits, fish, hares - as many as it takes. Once a system is over a couple years old, it seems to stabilize a bit.
These days, I probably have more empty snail shells than actual snails in the dt..
Nuisance algae really needs to be reacted to with big numbers of controllers at first.. imo. I mean over kill, nut just enough..

[reefmutt]

Ok.. Wally, Greg-
Here ya go!
https://youtu.be/NtYPtPLiGPM
I’m posting from my phone so I can’t embed the video..
It’s a one shot pan around.. I have a couple shots as well but I have to go to Tapatalk to post those so I’ll be back!

[Ucantwin]

Originally Posted by reefmutt

Hey Cody, the fact that you have constant measurable sr. means your tank is always getting some..
I tried dosing for only a short while but didn’t find it really helped anything..
I abandoned using it pretty quick..

Do you think all elements work like that? Meaning, if they are measurable then you have enough or does there need to be a certain amount for things to thrive, like calcium levels. We don't want a calcium level of 100 or potassium level of the same.

10 cubes of frozen and flake seems like a lot of food, even with that size tank. With your nutrient levels being high it seems like there is some how a lot of food not being ate and is able to break down. What's your thoughts?

[reefmutt]

Originally Posted by Ucantwin

Do you think all elements work like that? Meaning, if they are measurable then you have enough or does there need to be a certain amount for things to thrive, like calcium levels. We don't want a calcium level of 100 or potassium level of the same.

10 cubes of frozen and flake seems like a lot of food, even with that size tank. With your nutrient levels being high it seems like there is some how a lot of food not being ate and is able to break down. What's your thoughts?

I don’t know.. if I feed less, the butterfly gets skinnier than he already is. That food - mysis and sp. brine shrimp - is gone in a minute. I don’t believe any is left behind...
You think it’s a lot of food in a 350 g system with a good skimmer, huge cheato fuge and a ton of denitrifying media?

As to the strontium- you’re right.. it was not a very good answer.. and no I don’t believe it works like that for most important elements like calcium. Although I think that if calcium were constantly in the 350 - 450 level, as long as it’s constant - meaning demand is being met, I think the corals will be fine. Certainly, if it falls below a certain level, the coral will struggle to build a proper skeleton.
Because Cody is getting a reading- not ideal but not zero and it’s constant, he’s probably not too bad..
yes.. not a very difinitive answer.. but is there a difinitive answer for actual Strontium requirements? Aside from knowing natural sea levels.. not sure we need natural sea levels in our reefs..
Cody, I have not tested for Strontium since last year. I also don’t think it was ever much higher than your level...
There will probably be no harm in dosing for a while and seeing how the tank reacts. You may see increased corraline growth.
Good supply of sr. is supposed to make corraline algae grow well but I never noticed a difference... maybe it is the Calcium reactor that gives me enough..
JBNY has always been a strong proponent of sr dosing.
Low nutrients and/or high light - along with low sr. will hinder corraline growth..
I might test my level, just out of curiosity..

I apologize for the lazy and not particularly informed answer!

[reefmutt]

Here’s a few photos..

Aussie horrida and red planet


Mystery coral I picked up a year ago that sat idle forever, but has started to look good.


Blue Aussie coral with su. Instagram shot..


Wild tenuis I got several months ago. Looks ridiculous under leds. But still pretty under normal light.


Small section of the very pretty Robin Hood..


Another robin hood much lower down in the tank, next to some ssc regrowth that I tried to kill unsuccessfully..


I always have to post a shot of my pink matrix..


Another mystery coral beginning to look cool.


I assume this is the frogskin or yellow tort.. giving it a shot to see how it grows out..


Ok.. that’s it for now..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[reefmutt]

Don’t know how to edit in tapatalk..
here’s the pink matrix again..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Pife]

Looks great Matt.

[Ucantwin]

Matt, I have no know idea if it's a lot of food or not. Just when you hear 10 cubes plus flake it sounds like a lot. I suggested it might be to much is because you said you struggle with phosphate no matter how much media you used to bring it down.

No matter what your during to the tank, your doing something right! I hope one day I achieve the same level of success you have accomplished.

Stunning video. Your orange passion is huge!

[Wally.B]

Originally Posted by reefmutt

Ok.. Wally, Greg-
Here ya go!
https://youtu.be/NtYPtPLiGPM
I’m posting from my phone so I can’t embed the video..
It’s a one shot pan around.. I have a couple shots as well but I have to go to Tapatalk to post those so I’ll be back!

WOW!! Way better than last video.
Love the way you stayed on the wide shot long enough for me to get a feel of your whole tank. And then the pan closeups. Smooth this time.
Really got a feel for your amazing Fish Collection too!! And how they move in random harmony. No wonder you say Feed 10 cubes a day (That for me is beyond my comprehension) since feed just a cube a day, some pellet and flake.
You coral grow is so symmetrical, and corals well laid out. Can't imagine how easy it is to break a Colony tip.
Amazing Tank Matt!! Amazing Corals (Color/Shape)!! Amazing fish!!
I 2nd my previous comment from the past. Can't imagine what that must look like in real life up close.
WOW!

[illumnae]

I used to have issues with phosphate as well - the ratio in my tank was always out of whack with phosphate increasing at a greater rate than nitrates. This was compounded by the fact that I could never keep a significant nitrate level in my tank. My 20 litres of siporax seemed to be processing the nitrates much faster than phosphate.

What I ended up doing was to dose daily 5-10ppm of calcium nitrate and 5-10ml of Red Sea NoPox. After awhile, levels started to stabilize and zero out - that's when I transitioned to just dosing 2ml of TM Bacto-balance daily, to keep nutrients at an acceptable level. PO4 is still rising faster than NO3, but it now only takes me 10ml of FM ultraphos in my filter socks weekly to keep it in check.

I now maintain 0.2 NO3 and 0.01-0.02 PO4 in my tank with no visible algae in the DT, and some cyano in the fuge. SPS colour is dark and not paled out at all, even with relatively high light in my tank (the top SPS are getting 400+ PAR). I believe that even though tested values are extremely low, the tank itself processes enough nutrients to keep the corals happy.

Ultimately, so long as your tank is in balance, values are constant and your corals are happy, I don't think we should be chasing numbers - as Matt and many other successful reefers have shown, even high values of nutrients can yield low algae and happy corals.

[DiscusHeckel]

Lovely video, Matt. Thanks for sharing.

How many fish have you got in your tank? In my tank, which is much smaller than yours, I have 21 fish and I feed them with four cubes a day plus some Copepods up to three a day. PO4 seems to be stable between 0.14-0.18 mg/L.

As @Ucantwin suggested, 10 cubes sounds plus flakes sounds a lot to me. I wonder if you can, on a temporary basis, halve the number of cubes you use to feed your fish for several weeks to see its impact on PO4. I bet it will drop noticeably IF your aim is to bring PO4 below 0.1 mg/L. If not, it would be a pointless exercise.

[reefmutt]

Originally Posted by Wally.B

WOW!! Way better than last video.
Love the way you stayed on the wide shot long enough for me to get a feel of your whole tank. And then the pan closeups. Smooth this time.
Really got a feel for your amazing Fish Collection too!! And how they move in random harmony. No wonder you say Feed 10 cubes a day (That for me is beyond my comprehension) since feed just a cube a day, some pellet and flake.
You coral grow is so symmetrical, and corals well laid out. Can't imagine how easy it is to break a Colony tip.
Amazing Tank Matt!! Amazing Corals (Color/Shape)!! Amazing fish!!
I 2nd my previous comment from the past. Can't imagine what that must look like in real life up close.
WOW!

Thanks, Wally! Glad you liked it.
Just let me know if you’re ever in montreal. You are welcome!

[reefmutt]

Originally Posted by Ucantwin

Matt, I have no know idea if it's a lot of food or not. Just when you hear 10 cubes plus flake it sounds like a lot. I suggested it might be to much is because you said you struggle with phosphate no matter how much media you used to bring it down.

No matter what your during to the tank, your doing something right! I hope one day I achieve the same level of success you have accomplished.

Stunning video. Your orange passion is huge!

Thanks! The OP grows like crazy..
Maybe I’ll play with reducing food a bit- in the future..

[reefmutt]

Originally Posted by illumnae

I used to have issues with phosphate as well - the ratio in my tank was always out of whack with phosphate increasing at a greater rate than nitrates. This was compounded by the fact that I could never keep a significant nitrate level in my tank. My 20 litres of siporax seemed to be processing the nitrates much faster than phosphate.

What I ended up doing was to dose daily 5-10ppm of calcium nitrate and 5-10ml of Red Sea NoPox. After awhile, levels started to stabilize and zero out - that's when I transitioned to just dosing 2ml of TM Bacto-balance daily, to keep nutrients at an acceptable level. PO4 is still rising faster than NO3, but it now only takes me 10ml of FM ultraphos in my filter socks weekly to keep it in check.

I now maintain 0.2 NO3 and 0.01-0.02 PO4 in my tank with no visible algae in the DT, and some cyano in the fuge. SPS colour is dark and not paled out at all, even with relatively high light in my tank (the top SPS are getting 400+ PAR). I believe that even though tested values are extremely low, the tank itself processes enough nutrients to keep the corals happy.

Ultimately, so long as your tank is in balance, values are constant and your corals are happy, I don't think we should be chasing numbers - as Matt and many other successful reefers have shown, even high values of nutrients can yield low algae and happy corals.

Yes.. I think that a key point here is that as long as corals are happy and algae is at bay, nutrients are only a small part of the reef equation.
That’s an interesting method of nutrient reduction.. were you using an algae fuge while doing this?

Originally Posted by DiscusHeckel

Lovely video, Matt. Thanks for sharing.

How many fish have you got in your tank? In my tank, which is much smaller than yours, I have 21 fish and I feed them with four cubes a day plus some Copepods up to three a day. PO4 seems to be stable between 0.14-0.18 mg/L.

As @Ucantwin suggested, 10 cubes sounds plus flakes sounds a lot to me. I wonder if you can, on a temporary basis, halve the number of cubes you use to feed your fish for several weeks to see its impact on PO4. I bet it will drop noticeably IF your aim is to bring PO4 below 0.1 mg/L. If not, it would be a pointless exercise.

Hey Bulent, I have about 27 fish. The tangs and butterfly being a good size. None of my fish are robust looking aside from my melanurus wrasse. The tangs and butterfly are on the skinny side, I’d say..

So, here are my latest test results.. I used my birthday morning to do tests!

N. 2
P. .17
Ca. 420
Alk. 7
Sr. 3-4
Mg 1300
K 380

In mid October, I dosed fluconazole. N went from 2 to 40 after treatment. Between then and now, n has been steadily falling and as of today, has come back to where it was before the treatment..
Same story for P. It was around .13-.18 before, went to .3 and has now gone back to .17
Because my numbers have reached where they were before fluconazole- using the cheato as reducer , I think I am not going to change anything right now and watch where nutrients go over the next several weeks.
Back last fall, when n got below 1, I tried adding some nitrate in hopes I could boost n and maybe pull down P a bit. It didn’t really work...
this time I will just monitor the situation for a while..
In the future, I may take yours and ucantwin ‘s advice and reduce food from 2 feedings of 5 cubes each to 4 cubes each feeding and see what happens.

[gregkn73]

By Adding no3 last few months, I just stabilize no3 at , 2.5-5 ppm level. Not any effect at po4 either....

PS wonderful photos and video Matt.

[illumnae]

The theory behind what I did was that it seemed that I was carbon and nitrate limited, while phosphates were rising very quickly. Hence I dosed nitrate and carbon and let the bacteria do the work in reducing all 3, with the skimmer doing the work to remove the byproduct (increased bacterial count) from the system.

I was using an algae fuge (and still am) as backup nutrient reduction. What I found interesting was that during the days that I was carbon and nitrate dosing, chaeto in the fuge was dying out and grape caulerpa was thriving. These days it's the other way around - the grape caulerpa is dying out but the chaeto is continuing to grow.

Originally Posted by reefmutt

Yes.. I think that a key point here is that as long as corals are happy and algae is at bay, nutrients are only a small part of the reef equation.
That’s an interesting method of nutrient reduction.. were you using an algae fuge while doing this?



Hey Bulent, I have about 27 fish. The tangs and butterfly being a good size. None of my fish are robust looking aside from my melanurus wrasse. The tangs and butterfly are on the skinny side, I’d say..

So, here are my latest test results.. I used my birthday morning to do tests!

N. 2
P. .17
Ca. 420
Alk. 7
Sr. 3-4
Mg 1300
K 380

In mid October, I dosed fluconazole. N went from 2 to 40 after treatment. Between then and now, n has been steadily falling and as of today, has come back to where it was before the treatment..
Same story for P. It was around .13-.18 before, went to .3 and has now gone back to .17
Because my numbers have reached where they were before fluconazole- using the cheato as reducer , I think I am not going to change anything right now and watch where nutrients go over the next several weeks.
Back last fall, when n got below 1, I tried adding some nitrate in hopes I could boost n and maybe pull down P a bit. It didn’t really work...
this time I will just monitor the situation for a while..
In the future, I may take yours and ucantwin ‘s advice and reduce food from 2 feedings of 5 cubes each to 4 cubes each feeding and see what happens.

[Rakie]

What kind of phone are you using? The colors are pretty great for a phone video Matt!

Everything is growing in beautifully. I'd say you're ready for a nice 2-300 gallon upgrade

[Andrew D]

Originally Posted by reefmutt

I have increased photoperiod by a couple hours - to about 17 hrs..

Matt, sorry to pull you back to a post over a month ago, but I wanted to confirm that this statement here is in relation to your fuge and NOT your display. Correct? I nearly choked when I read this the first time.

[reefmutt]

Originally Posted by gregkn73

By Adding no3 last few months, I just stabilize no3 at , 2.5-5 ppm level. Not any effect at po4 either....

PS wonderful photos and video Matt.

Thanks Greg. Glad you could see that one.

Originally Posted by illumnae

The theory behind what I did was that it seemed that I was carbon and nitrate limited, while phosphates were rising very quickly. Hence I dosed nitrate and carbon and let the bacteria do the work in reducing all 3, with the skimmer doing the work to remove the byproduct (increased bacterial count) from the system.

I was using an algae fuge (and still am) as backup nutrient reduction. What I found interesting was that during the days that I was carbon and nitrate dosing, chaeto in the fuge was dying out and grape caulerpa was thriving. These days it's the other way around - the grape caulerpa is dying out but the chaeto is continuing to grow.

I like this little plan.. the trick is getting the right ratio of carbon to no3..
I was talking to a buddy of mine with a larger system than me and he was a little surprised at the amount of food I use as well.. maybe I’ll try reducing a bit and see how the fish do...

Originally Posted by Rakie

What kind of phone are you using? The colors are pretty great for a phone video Matt!

Everything is growing in beautifully. I'd say you're ready for a nice 2-300 gallon upgrade

That video was taken with my dslr- not my phone. No upgrades for me unfortunately! Unless I win the lotto..

Originally Posted by Andrew D

Matt, sorry to pull you back to a post over a month ago, but I wanted to confirm that this statement here is in relation to your fuge and NOT your display. Correct? I nearly choked when I read this the first time.

Hey Andrew. Yes! That is my fuge photoperiod.
one of the best colour improvements I ever got was from lowering the length of my high intensity lighting period over my display.