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06/12/2014, 10:35 AM | #501 |
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What happened to the old way of using small amounts of vinegar in a 5 - 10 gal tub, letting it soak overnight and rinsing with tap water very well? The rinsing process takes a large amount of clean water. If cleaning rock, soak to rinse the rock over several days, changing with frequent water changes. I have been doing this for over 7 years and have had no problems.
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06/12/2014, 10:55 AM | #502 |
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I have been doing this for over 7 years
FWIW, the thread started 5 years ago, and at that time I suggested using acid if the goal was removal of copper or phosphate. I'm not sure things have changed since then. It is still the procedure we generally recommend, although muriatic acid is also a good choice of acid.
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06/15/2014, 08:38 PM | #503 |
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Lots of good info here - thanks to everyone who's contributed.
My issue is dinoflagellates, which I assume are everywhere throughout my system. I won't derail the thread with the number of things I've tried to beat them; suffice it to say that nothing has worked and I'm now at the point where nuking the tank won't be a big sacrifice. All livestock has long since been removed, so I want to sterilize everything in place without dismantling any of it. Is there any reason I should not add bleach directly to the tank? Does bleach have any affect on acrylic or PVC? Can I add the bleach to the existing saltwater, or should I replace it with freshwater first? It doesn't seem like this is necessary since I'd be draining afterwards anyway, but it can't hurt to ask. Sorry if these are dumb questions, but I didn't see them answered elsewhere in this thread. Thanks in advance. |
06/15/2014, 09:42 PM | #504 |
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I've used chlorine bleach directly in a tank before. I do think you will need to remove everything inside the tank and bleach it separately. Since you're going to have to do that and drain the tank anyway, why not drain first, fill with tap water and bleach, let it sit (with a couple of pumps circulating) for hours to a day, then remove the water, refill with fresh water and add dechlorinator. I would get a pool water test kit from wall mart (test strips) to check that you've removed all of the chlorine. Then I would drain the tank and let it dry completely before reusing. The rocks you will need to nuke, obviously, as well as clean and sterilize all of your equipment. I would rinse and scrub, and let it stew with circulation and a high concentration of bleach (I've used up to 50%) to make sure the buggers are out of the pores in the rock and the hidden areas of the pumps, heaters, etc. Tubing gets thrown out. Manual cleaning is a must as biofilm builds up on all surfaces and is remarkably resistant to many chemicals.
Dinos are nasty. Good luck. |
08/11/2014, 01:51 PM | #505 |
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Ok, I've just performed this task again after my tank crashed during the winter snow storm we had back here on the east coast. Its taken me awhile but I soaked the rock in a water-bleach solution for a long time (a few months, not in purpose just didnt have the time). then drained and rinsed and soaked in a water-acid solution for a day or so. Finally I rinsed the rock with a garden hose, let dry outside for a day, then put into a 100g tub of RODI.
After a few days I tested the water and found: 1) Nitrates @25ppm 2) Phosphate .09 Wow. I can understand the phosphate but am totally shocked to find Nitrate in this water. To recap, the rock sat in bleach/water from say March - July. Figured nothing was left alive. Then soaked for 24 hrs in water/acid. Any ideas why I would see Nitrate at this stage?
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08/11/2014, 02:23 PM | #506 |
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Any organic debris in the rock will decay to produce nitrate and phosphate.
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08/11/2014, 02:46 PM | #507 |
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i guess i wasnt expecting any, but now that i type that out loud :-) it sounds ridiculous. So, in essence, it sounds like the bleach took care of most organics but not all?
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08/11/2014, 02:50 PM | #508 |
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The bleach will kill a lot of things, and break down some organics, but it won't remove debris and a lot of organics will remain as nutrient sources.
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Jonathan Bertoni |
08/11/2014, 02:58 PM | #509 |
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Right, I remember discussing this a few months ago and went back to where Dkeller_nc stated....
"You are correct that bleach oxidizes organics, but the issue is that it oxidizes some organics. " And he also discussed the use of sodium hydroxide (NaOH). I have some on hand and wondering if that will do the trick, and quicker?
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08/11/2014, 03:33 PM | #510 | |
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Quote:
"What are you trying to accomplish? To kill things, use bleach. To remove copper or phosphate, use acid. "
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I prefer my substrates stirred but not shaken Current Tank Info: 150gal long mixed reef, 90gal sump, 60 gal refugium with 200 lbs live rock |
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08/11/2014, 07:58 PM | #511 |
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Unless the tank had some sort of infectious disease or dangerous pest, I'd just rinse the rock well and cure it, personally.
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08/11/2014, 09:42 PM | #512 |
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Lye is nasty stuff. As Bertoni said, I'd skip the caustic chemicals at this point and just cure the rocks over time as if they were new.
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08/12/2014, 10:59 AM | #513 | |
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Quote:
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08/12/2014, 11:33 AM | #514 | |
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Quote:
If it was live rock however depending on the temp and chlorine it could kill some bacteria
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I prefer my substrates stirred but not shaken Current Tank Info: 150gal long mixed reef, 90gal sump, 60 gal refugium with 200 lbs live rock |
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08/12/2014, 12:45 PM | #515 | ||||
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Quote:
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So I think I will just swish these rocks in RODI and then put in another fresh batch of RODI and do water changes until nitrate = 0. And will use GFO to pull out the phosphate. And take my time :-) My end goal is not to start my tank again until I'm sure my live rock has zero nitrates and zero phosphates.
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08/12/2014, 02:14 PM | #516 |
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The nitrate would come from organic debris, assuming the water going into the tank is nitrate-free.
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08/12/2014, 02:26 PM | #517 | |
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Quote:
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08/12/2014, 03:13 PM | #518 |
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Some nitrate could get past the filters, but the amount should be very small. Your nitrate kit should work on tap water, so you could test it.
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08/12/2014, 03:14 PM | #519 |
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yep, thanks, i will do that. very interesting as always. will post results. thanks!
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Bryan Current Tank Info: 220 since Nov 2005 |
08/12/2014, 06:50 PM | #520 | |
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Quote:
Jonathan perhaps you can post the link again?
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I prefer my substrates stirred but not shaken Current Tank Info: 150gal long mixed reef, 90gal sump, 60 gal refugium with 200 lbs live rock |
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08/12/2014, 10:30 PM | #521 |
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I'm not sure which article you mean.
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Jonathan Bertoni |
08/13/2014, 05:05 AM | #522 |
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It was a phosphate article, but the math is likely similar: the input of a small amount of nitrate in top off water is not likely a significant contributor to the overall nitrate level in a reef tank.
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Randy Holmes-Farley Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef |
08/13/2014, 03:54 PM | #523 |
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Okay, I remember the phosphate article.
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08/13/2014, 05:19 PM | #524 | |
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Quote:
Thank you
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I prefer my substrates stirred but not shaken Current Tank Info: 150gal long mixed reef, 90gal sump, 60 gal refugium with 200 lbs live rock |
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08/18/2014, 10:10 AM | #525 |
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OOooookay, so I learned a few things. No matter how much experience I gain I find I still make bonehead moves
So I learned this: 1) I was reading my low level nitrate test kit wrong. Where I thought the nitrate was 25ppm it's really 0.25ppm. oops. 2) after draining my holding tank where I was getting the 0.25ppm reading I did find two dead bugs (result of rinsing and drying my rocks outside). so, yea, there's some organic decay for you! most importantly... 3) I decided to go back and test my RODI water, at each step of the way. Found 0.25ppm nitrate in my RODI holding tank. Hmmm. so tested the RODI output and, shocker, 0.25ppm coming out of my RODI! Geeze. Also tested my tap water and I think the nitrate was maybe 100ppm. So in the end that was my problem. Did a long overdue change of my RODI filters and Nitrate = 0. Soaking rock overnight and will post test results tonight when I get home. Thanks all.
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