Does Evaporation Change Vodka Alcohol Percentage?

jjencek · 11/22/2017, 09:47 AM

I am starting Vodka dosing in my 250 liter tank (about 65 gal). I am using an automatic doser by Grotech which has the smallest unit as 1 ml. So I diluted the Vodka with water to 10% of alcohol per volume and plan to dose it that way.

My question is: Will the evaporation in the dosing bottle (which is not airtight) change the percentage of the alcohol over time? The dilution is probably not making a difference, but it is going to evaporate one way or the other.

Daddi0 · 11/22/2017, 10:03 AM

You could always dose with vinegar and save the vodka for yourself? I believe that you multiply the amount of vodka you dose by 8 and that is the amount of vinegar (5%) you would dose to get the same amount of carbon.
Cheers! Mark

scuzy · 11/22/2017, 10:35 AM

Yeah the alcohol volume will change but it shouldn't change that much. My container would have pin hole so it's not air tight.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

bertoni · 11/22/2017, 10:43 AM

The percentage of alcohol will drop over time. How long do you think it'll take to use up the fluid? If you put a loose cover on it, I doubt that the evaporation rate will be significant.

jjencek · 11/22/2017, 02:14 PM

I mixed up a solution of 800 ml at 10% alcohol. If I slowly increase it as planned, it will take about 15 weeks.

I don't care if alcohol and water evaporates at about the same rate, but if the alcohol gets less and less, I got a problem when I start with a new solution after the 15 weeks. It would be a bigger jump than recommended.

Breadman03 · 11/22/2017, 02:37 PM

I don't think it was in reference to vodka dosing, but I read a recommendation to drill a hole in the lid and install a one-way check valve to allow fresh air in, but prevent moisture from evaporating out.

jjencek · 11/22/2017, 02:44 PM

I like that. Now I need to figure out what such a valve looks like and where to get it in Europe.

I love this hobby ... it keeps me busy and thinking.

droog · 11/29/2017, 01:50 AM

In terms of carbon dosing, vinegar is less potent than vodka. Mixing them together should get you to a volume that you can dose at full strength, which might be preferable to dilution. The problem with dilution can be bacteria forming in the dosing container before you dose, which is not what you want.

Take a look at this thread for more info

jjencek · 11/30/2017, 02:35 AM

I sort of came to the same conclusion that dilution is probably not the best idea. I even went further than you suggested. I read both articles in the RC magazine - one on vodka and the other one on vinegar. The vinegar article also suggests that it has less chance of developing cyano problems. I have had cyano before and so I went with vinegar only. The European vinegar is 8%.

Any reason why people mix vodka and vinegar and even add sugar?

bertoni · 11/30/2017, 03:44 PM

Some tanks might do better with a mix, but we don't have much data on what's happening i the tanks. Some people do report less cyanobacteria with vinegar. Others report more with vodka. Our tanks are fairly complex environments.

Sugar seems riskier than other choices, with more people reporting coral problems when dosing it.

jjencek · 12/04/2017, 01:47 AM

Just a quick update for interested parties ...

After 10 days of vinegar (still ramping it up) I already see changes.

1. Places that I scrub do not have a new growth.

2. The red hair algae is starting to discolor - I am assuming that means its not doing week and will slowly die off.

3. The existing green algae is not growing.

So far so good ...

bertoni · 12/04/2017, 08:17 PM

Wow, that's fast progress! I'd keep an eye on coral coloration, since some people report problems with corals fading with vinegar dosing.

droog · 12/05/2017, 02:23 AM

Great, thanks for the update.

Always good to hear nuisance algae being

One day you realize its getting weaker. One day is surprisingly all gone. Do pull out what you can while its weak.

-droog

jjencek · 12/24/2017, 08:48 AM

another update for anybody interested (positive and negative)...

2 weeks ago I leveled off at 20 ml vinegar per day (65 gal tank).

Positive results:
------------------
All the algae is receding nicely. The flat worms are also going away.

Possible issue:
----------------
My Ph has gone down. It ranges from 7.5 at night to 8.0 during lights on.

I think it would be nice to dose only during the light period, but I don't know how to do it with my GROTECH Tec 4 doser.

Here are my remaining values:
----------------------------------
Salinity = 1.025
Alkalinity = 8.9
Calcium = 420
Magnesium = 1200 (little low - trying to raise it)
Nitrate = 0.02
Phosphate = 0

bertoni · 12/25/2017, 11:41 AM

I don't know how to control that doser, either, but someone might add some comments there. I'm glad the pests are dropping down. I take it all the other animals are doing well? No color changes in the corals?

More aeration might help with the pH. Tuning the skimmer (as needed), checking for water surface films, and adding an airstone have helped in other cases.

jjencek · 12/26/2017, 08:04 AM

All the old timer established animals and corals are doing fine. I am having trouble with new additions bleaching out - but that might not be related...

or could it be?

bertoni · 12/26/2017, 12:36 PM

I'd be suspicious that it's the carbon dosing, but you could keep it up for a bit to see how the newer corals do.

jjencek · 12/27/2017, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bertoni

I don't know how to control that doser, either, but someone might add some comments there. I'm glad the pests are dropping down. I take it all the other animals are doing well? No color changes in the corals?

More aeration might help with the pH. Tuning the skimmer (as needed), checking for water surface films, and adding an airstone have helped in other cases.

Thank you for the suggestions ... You got me thinking and realized that "my Red Sea Max 250 hood" could be the problem. So I changed three things:

1. Took the skimmer intake and moved it outside of the hood

2. Added an additional air stone

3. Opened the front of the hood

And the results are ... drum roll .... I went from 7.55 - 7.78 24-hour Ph range to 7.67 - 7.95.

Not perfect, but better. Now I will remove one at the time and see which if any is not needed.

bertoni · 12/27/2017, 12:21 PM

That's a reasonable improvement. I wouldn't worry too much about pH at this point.

jjencek · 12/27/2017, 12:55 PM

Yes, I believe that is good enough to get it of my urgent list. I might play with it later some more.

Thank you all for leading me to the right answer ...

11/22/2017, 09:47 AM	#1
jjencek Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Prague, Czech Republic Posts: 366	Does Evaporation Change Vodka Alcohol Percentage? I am starting Vodka dosing in my 250 liter tank (about 65 gal). I am using an automatic doser by Grotech which has the smallest unit as 1 ml. So I diluted the Vodka with water to 10% of alcohol per volume and plan to dose it that way. My question is: Will the evaporation in the dosing bottle (which is not airtight) change the percentage of the alcohol over time? The dilution is probably not making a difference, but it is going to evaporate one way or the other.

11/22/2017, 10:03 AM	#2
Daddi0 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Redwood City Posts: 1,354	You could always dose with vinegar and save the vodka for yourself? I believe that you multiply the amount of vodka you dose by 8 and that is the amount of vinegar (5%) you would dose to get the same amount of carbon. Cheers! Mark __________________ 2x 65g displays with a 30g cryptic refugium and 30g sump - 55g reef 30g Bio-cube reef - I.M. 30g reef - 45g freshwater

11/22/2017, 10:43 AM	#4
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	The percentage of alcohol will drop over time. How long do you think it'll take to use up the fluid? If you put a loose cover on it, I doubt that the evaporation rate will be significant. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

11/30/2017, 03:44 PM	#10
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	Some tanks might do better with a mix, but we don't have much data on what's happening i the tanks. Some people do report less cyanobacteria with vinegar. Others report more with vodka. Our tanks are fairly complex environments. Sugar seems riskier than other choices, with more people reporting coral problems when dosing it. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

12/04/2017, 08:17 PM	#12
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	Wow, that's fast progress! I'd keep an eye on coral coloration, since some people report problems with corals fading with vinegar dosing. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

11/22/2017, 10:35 AM	#3
scuzy Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 6,499	Yeah the alcohol volume will change but it shouldn't change that much. My container would have pin hole so it's not air tight. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

11/22/2017, 02:14 PM	#5
jjencek Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Prague, Czech Republic Posts: 366	I mixed up a solution of 800 ml at 10% alcohol. If I slowly increase it as planned, it will take about 15 weeks. I don't care if alcohol and water evaporates at about the same rate, but if the alcohol gets less and less, I got a problem when I start with a new solution after the 15 weeks. It would be a bigger jump than recommended.

11/22/2017, 02:37 PM	#6
Breadman03 New Old School Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Luzerne County, PA Posts: 3,293	I don't think it was in reference to vodka dosing, but I read a recommendation to drill a hole in the lid and install a one-way check valve to allow fresh air in, but prevent moisture from evaporating out.

11/22/2017, 02:44 PM	#7
jjencek Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Prague, Czech Republic Posts: 366	I like that. Now I need to figure out what such a valve looks like and where to get it in Europe. I love this hobby ... it keeps me busy and thinking.

11/29/2017, 01:50 AM	#8
droog Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 736	In terms of carbon dosing, vinegar is less potent than vodka. Mixing them together should get you to a volume that you can dose at full strength, which might be preferable to dilution. The problem with dilution can be bacteria forming in the dosing container before you dose, which is not what you want. Take a look at this thread for more info

11/30/2017, 02:35 AM	#9
jjencek Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Prague, Czech Republic Posts: 366	I sort of came to the same conclusion that dilution is probably not the best idea. I even went further than you suggested. I read both articles in the RC magazine - one on vodka and the other one on vinegar. The vinegar article also suggests that it has less chance of developing cyano problems. I have had cyano before and so I went with vinegar only. The European vinegar is 8%. Any reason why people mix vodka and vinegar and even add sugar?

12/04/2017, 01:47 AM	#11
jjencek Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Prague, Czech Republic Posts: 366	Just a quick update for interested parties ... After 10 days of vinegar (still ramping it up) I already see changes. 1. Places that I scrub do not have a new growth. 2. The red hair algae is starting to discolor - I am assuming that means its not doing week and will slowly die off. 3. The existing green algae is not growing. So far so good ...

12/05/2017, 02:23 AM	#13
droog Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 736	Great, thanks for the update. Always good to hear nuisance algae being One day you realize its getting weaker. One day is surprisingly all gone. Do pull out what you can while its weak. -droog

12/24/2017, 08:48 AM	#14
jjencek Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Prague, Czech Republic Posts: 366	another update for anybody interested (positive and negative)... 2 weeks ago I leveled off at 20 ml vinegar per day (65 gal tank). Positive results: ------------------ All the algae is receding nicely. The flat worms are also going away. Possible issue: ---------------- My Ph has gone down. It ranges from 7.5 at night to 8.0 during lights on. I think it would be nice to dose only during the light period, but I don't know how to do it with my GROTECH Tec 4 doser. Here are my remaining values: ---------------------------------- Salinity = 1.025 Alkalinity = 8.9 Calcium = 420 Magnesium = 1200 (little low - trying to raise it) Nitrate = 0.02 Phosphate = 0

12/25/2017, 11:41 AM	#15
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	I don't know how to control that doser, either, but someone might add some comments there. I'm glad the pests are dropping down. I take it all the other animals are doing well? No color changes in the corals? More aeration might help with the pH. Tuning the skimmer (as needed), checking for water surface films, and adding an airstone have helped in other cases. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

12/26/2017, 08:04 AM	#16
jjencek Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Prague, Czech Republic Posts: 366	All the old timer established animals and corals are doing fine. I am having trouble with new additions bleaching out - but that might not be related... or could it be?

12/26/2017, 12:36 PM	#17
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	I'd be suspicious that it's the carbon dosing, but you could keep it up for a bit to see how the newer corals do. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

12/27/2017, 12:21 PM	#19
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	That's a reasonable improvement. I wouldn't worry too much about pH at this point. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

12/27/2017, 12:55 PM	#20
jjencek Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Prague, Czech Republic Posts: 366	Yes, I believe that is good enough to get it of my urgent list. I might play with it later some more. Thank you all for leading me to the right answer ...