What's wrong with my gigantea?

[ThRoewer]

After moving my first purple gigantea back into the 100-gallon tank and feeding it daily or almost daily it grew and colored up nicely.
Before I was keeping it together with my percula pair #1 in a planter basked inside a 40B

2019-04-26, 5 days in 100 gallon tank:



2019-05-06:



2019-05-12:



2019-05-16:



It actually got even bigger and more colorful after this video was taken.

But when I looked after the tank last Sunday the skimmer had gone crazy overnight and the gigantea had contracted to a third of its previous size.

2019-05-26 11:12:



2019-05-26 17:48:



2019-05-26 21:34:



2019-05-27 14:44:



2019-05-27 19:18:



2019-05-27 19:19:

[ThRoewer]

2019-05-28 12:51:



2019-05-28 15:02:



2019 05 29 18:38:



2019-05-28 21:05:



2019 05 29 18:38:



3 hours later it had contracted again.

This is now going on for 4 days.
The 3 other giganteas in the same system are doing fine considering that 2 of those had just gone through treatment and the other got just recently burned by a heater.
The corals also seem to do fine.

The light over the main tank is:
2x Kessil A360WN
2x 36W ATI T5 Coral Plus
2x 36W ATI T5 Blue Plus.

The anemone doesn't seem sick, no open mouth, no typical "sick" anemone deflating (= going limb), no expelling of zooxanthellae. It just contracts as if it wants to go hiding.
I have had this gigantea now for almost 4 years and it never behaved like this.
The only thing that really changed is the light. Before I kept it only under Kessil LED. But it seemed to actually like the additional T5 light.

[OrionN]

Originally Posted by ThRoewer

After moving my first purple gigantea back into the 100-gallon tank and feeding it daily or almost daily it grew and colored up nicely.
Before I was keeping it together with my percula pair #1 in a planter basked inside a 40B

............

It actually got even bigger and more colorful after this video was taken.

But when I looked after the tank last Sunday the skimmer had gone crazy overnight and the gigantea had contracted to a third of its previous size.

........

The only reason I can think of is that he is a male, and he spawned. Maybe you have at least a female in the three remaining Gigantea's. Look and see if they have any baby anemones develop inside them. You may have baby anemone release later, in a few days.

[D-Nak]

Are the clowns trying to dive bomb into its mouth? If not, then I don't think it's sick. The only time I've seen this is with sick gigs.

Had you fed the tank? Do you directly feed the gigs?

One of my gigs did the exact same thing as yours but it stopped after a few days. I attributed to a big meal I fed it (and I stopped feed for a while after that).

[ThRoewer]

Originally Posted by OrionN

The only reason I can think of is that he is a male, and he spawned. Maybe you have at least a female in the three remaining Gigantea's. Look and see if they have any baby anemones develop inside them. You may have baby anemone release later, in a few days.

I kind of thought that might have happened when it did this the first time and the skimmer went crazy. But would they spawn every day for almost a week?

As for the other 3 giganteas, statistically at least one of them should be a female. I kind of would hope it is the blue one as it is the largest and fittest of the gang.

Do gigantea actually have internal fertilization? I would think that would make breeding them much easier...

[ThRoewer]

Originally Posted by D-Nak

Are the clowns trying to dive bomb into its mouth? If not, then I don't think it's sick. The only time I've seen this is with sick gigs.

Had you fed the tank? Do you directly feed the gigs?

One of my gigs did the exact same thing as yours but it stopped after a few days. I attributed to a big meal I fed it (and I stopped feed for a while after that).

The percula massage/harass the anemone quite a bit when it is at its smallest but its mouth is firmly closed and the percula don't focus much on it. It certainly doesn't look sick - I've seen enough sick gigs by now to know how that looks.

I feed the gigs directly and had this one fed almost daily for about 5 weeks now. I stopped feeding it after it contracted.

[Planetmacro]

Back in 1992 I had a haddoni that spawned. It first expelled eggs and then milt. The water in the 50 gallon tank became milky white. I’m pretty sure anemones are not one sex. They are self fertilizing. After the spawning the haddoni did not shrink. This specimen was about a foot in diameter. I believe anemones spawn like corals.

I think your gigantea will be fine in a few days. If the others are okay it’s not an environmental issue. Don’t feed it for a while.

[OrionN]

of the host anemones I know that E. quadricolor, H. magnifica, H. malu and S. gigantea have separate sex. I also read that Haddoni also have separate sex, not hermaphrodites.
Of these anemones, BTA, Malu and Gigantea sexually reproduced by internal fertilization. These three species released fully formed baby anemone, and should be able to be raised and reproduced sexually in captivity.
BTA was successfully reproduced sexually at the Waikiki aquarium in Hawaii. H. malu was raised successfully reproduced sexually by Dr. Anna Scott in Australia. Only Gigantea have not been reproduced in captivity yet, but it will be just a mater of time before we will be able to do this.
Feeding them regularly should bring them into breeding condition, and having multiple of these anemone is needed.

[ThRoewer]

Still the same today. It looked halfway decent in the morning before the lights came on, but when I came home it looked like this:

2019 05 30 18:24


The new giganteas, on the other hand, are fine and recovering quickly:

[ThRoewer]

Still the same...
It looked almost ok this afternoon but later in the evening it was all shriveled up again:

Originally Posted by D-Nak

...
One of my gigs did the exact same thing as yours but it stopped after a few days. I attributed to a big meal I fed it (and I stopped feed for a while after that).

Do you still remember for how long exactly your gig did this?
Mine is doing it now for nearly a week and I'm starting to get worried.
But it doesn't have the open mouth of a sick gigantea, just the opposite, the mouth is firmly closed. So I can't see how any antibiotics treatment could help.

[OrionN]

I think it is time to separate it from the test of the Gigantea and consider treating him. Bad food?

[ThRoewer]

Originally Posted by OrionN

I think it is time to separate it from the test of the Gigantea and consider treating him. Bad food?

I don't think that any of the food was bad as it was the same mysis I feed the fish and the other giganteas.
Right now the percula might actually be a problem as they harrass it quite a lot. So isolation may be required.
I just don't know if treatment with Cipro can help as it doesn't show the open mouth that indicates a bacterial infection.

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[OrionN]

Yes I would at the very least isolate him. You got other Gigantea to think about.
Various Anemone keepers have find that some time one in the group not doing well for some reason. Sometime they improve, other time they do not. I think something like this happened to taylor_t and also with a few other people.

[ThRoewer]

Early in the morning it was again completely contracted.

In the early afternoon it started looking a bit better, but the female percula started to show some unusual behavior:

2019-06-01 15:40


Looking better, yet mouth can be seen slightly open in this video:

2019-06-01 16:39


Anemone inflated more but Female's strange behavior increased:

2019-06-01 17:16


2019-06-01 17:46


At around 21:30 the anemone had deflated again and for the first time looked actually sick so I decided to pull it and start treatment.

In the treatment tank the gigantea balled up like a magnifica.



And the percula were not really happy that not only their anemone was gone but their eggs as well. But at least they quickly accepted the good old flowerpot as emergency home.

2019-06-01 22:07


I think the anemone caught a Vibrio infection.
About a month ago I had a crispa die in one of the sump tanks.
As soon as I found the decomposing anemone I isolated the tank and did a full water change. One of the gobies in that tank had a bad infection and I pulled it for treatment with the green gigantea. But I guess it was already too late and the gigantea had caught the infection, possibly ingested with some food. I can only hope the other 3 giganteas didn't get it as well as I have ony enough Cipro left for one treatment. Got to order more...

[ThRoewer]

Looked already much better in the morning after just one Cipro dose, but still had a slightly open mouth.
One thing I noticed earlier is that there is a bald area near the mouth where the tentacles are either extremely reduced or have been bitten off. Now, in the hospital tank this can be seen quite clearly. I suspect that this was caused by the fish but wonder why they would do such a thing.

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[Planetmacro]

Originally Posted by ThRoewer

Looked already much better in the morning after just one Cipro dose, but still had a slightly open mouth.
One thing I noticed earlier is that there is a bald area near the mouth where the tentacles are either extremely reduced or have been bitten off. Now, in the hospital tank this can be seen quite clearly. I suspect that this was caused by the fish but wonder why they would do such a thing.

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Glad your gig is doing better. I’ve seen clowns tear off tentacles several times. Haven’t the slightest clue why they do that.

[OrionN]

Best of luck.

[ThRoewer]

2019-06-02 14:49



2019-06-02 18:14



2019-06-03 18:51



2019-06-03 19:06



2019-06-04 00:27

[OrionN]

looking better. No deflating at night and in evening. Best of luck.

[ThRoewer]

Originally Posted by OrionN

looking better. No deflating at night and in evening. Best of luck.

It was kind of deflated this morning.

[D-Nak]

Looks much better. Glad you were able to save it.

I've seen my clowns rub the center of one of my gigs which prevents the tentacles from expanding, and it appears to almost wear them down into short nubs. I don't think it permanently damages the nem and it seems to quickly recover once the clowns stop focusing on one part of the nem.

[ThRoewer]

Originally Posted by D-Nak

Looks much better. Glad you were able to save it.

I've seen my clowns rub the center of one of my gigs which prevents the tentacles from expanding, and it appears to almost wear them down into short nubs. I don't think it permanently damages the nem and it seems to quickly recover once the clowns stop focusing on one part of the nem.

I would be really upset if this one died since I have it now for 4 years.

The short tentacles may have been caused by the few months of it and the clowns being confined to a small planter basked while I was getting the garage organized (not done yet) and the big tank back up and running.

BTW, what do you use as first food for your percula offspring?
Since I have with the anemone also the percula nest out of the tank I was hoping to take the opportunity and collect the larva to try raising them.
Right now I only have tigger pods (though lots of them), some green water, but no rotifers or brine shrimp eggs.
I may try if I can filter out the small larva stages of the Tigriopus but in the past I wasn't really able to find many of them - I think they must be hiding in the mud.

[D-Nak]

Originally Posted by ThRoewer

I would be really upset if this one died since I have it now for 4 years.

The short tentacles may have been caused by the few months of it and the clowns being confined to a small planter basked while I was getting the garage organized (not done yet) and the big tank back up and running.

BTW, what do you use as first food for your percula offspring?
Since I have with the anemone also the percula nest out of the tank I was hoping to take the opportunity and collect the larva to try raising them.
Right now I only have tigger pods (though lots of them), some green water, but no rotifers or brine shrimp eggs.
I may try if I can filter out the small larva stages of the Tigriopus but in the past I wasn't really able to find many of them - I think they must be hiding in the mud.

The first food for my offspring has always been rotifers. I've had large clutches and they can quickly eat a 5 gallon bucket culture of rotifers in a couple of days, so I've had to have multiple buckets for grow out. In other words, unless you're planning on collecting only a few larva, even if you can somehow collect Tigriopus larva, you probably won't have enough.

[ThRoewer]

Originally Posted by D-Nak

The first food for my offspring has always been rotifers. I've had large clutches and they can quickly eat a 5 gallon bucket culture of rotifers in a couple of days, so I've had to have multiple buckets for grow out. In other words, unless you're planning on collecting only a few larva, even if you can somehow collect Tigriopus larva, you probably won't have enough.

In the past I actually managed to raise anemonefish without rotifers. All I fed was freshly hatched brine shrimp and frozen cyclops. The trick was to keep the parents and fry at lower salinity and let the freshly hatched larva go hungry a few hours before the first feeding. And of course purpose built larva rearing tanks.
My biggest problem right now is that I'm utterly unprepared to deal with larva but I hope I will be able to change that soon.
But this clutch of my percula is rather small (~100) so I hope to be able to scrape enough food together to get some through.

[D-Nak]

Originally Posted by ThRoewer

In the past I actually managed to raise anemonefish without rotifers. All I fed was freshly hatched brine shrimp and frozen cyclops. The trick was to keep the parents and fry at lower salinity and let the freshly hatched larva go hungry a few hours before the first feeding. And of course purpose built larva rearing tanks.
My biggest problem right now is that I'm utterly unprepared to deal with larva but I hope I will be able to change that soon.
But this clutch of my percula is rather small (~100) so I hope to be able to scrape enough food together to get some through.

I've heard that a few people have done this successfully (using brine shrimp nauplii) in the past. I just chose to have my parents and fry at a slightly lower salinity and my rotifer culture at a higher salinity to get them to a point where they're both close and the rotifers don't go into shock when I transfer them.