Reef Central Online Community

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > General Interest Forums > Do It Yourself
Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

User Tag List

Reply
Thread Tools
Unread 04/01/2012, 12:20 PM   #1026
wardda
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by TropTrea View Post
Basicly I see you have 31 inches from the LED's to the substrate and you have a 9" spread between any two white led on a given rail. So if you want to get a deceing cross coverage at the substrate you want your beam roughly 18" wide mininum. Any lens over 33 degrees would give this to you. However all your corals will not be on the substrate but some especialy those in the back of the tank will be higher up. if they are reaching to the top 1/3 of the tank that means they are 16" from the LED's where you still want the 18" wide beam. to get an 18" wide beam at 16" from the LED you will need at least 68 degree lenses.

I would suggest 40 degree lenses on the front row, 60 degree lenses on the 2nd row and 80 degree lenses on the back row.
TropTrea,

Thanks your advice has been priceless.

So if I add the 4th row, I will have 4 rows of 12 for a total of 48 LED's. With 40 deg lenses on row 1, 60 deg on row two, and 80 deg on rows three and four.

I currently have 38 leds on hand (36 in use):
24 Royal Blue XTE's
2 Green XPE
6 Cool white XPG
6 Neutral White XPG

What would you recommend I purchase to get to 48? And how would you arrange them? I'm ok making some minor substitutions if needed but I don't want to spend a huge amount replacing the majority of what I have.

Thanks again!


wardda is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04/01/2012, 07:36 PM   #1027
TropTrea
Registered Member
 
TropTrea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: SE Suburbia Wisconsin
Posts: 2,910
Quote:
Originally Posted by wardda View Post
TropTrea,

Thanks your advice has been priceless.

So if I add the 4th row, I will have 4 rows of 12 for a total of 48 LED's. With 40 deg lenses on row 1, 60 deg on row two, and 80 deg on rows three and four.

I currently have 38 leds on hand (36 in use):
24 Royal Blue XTE's
2 Green XPE
6 Cool white XPG
6 Neutral White XPG

What would you recommend I purchase to get to 48? And how would you arrange them? I'm ok making some minor substitutions if needed but I don't want to spend a huge amount replacing the majority of what I have.

Thanks again!
I personly do not like cool white, or green

On 48 LED's I would go with

8 Neutral Whites
4 Cyan (Philips)
18 Blues
18 Royal Blues

But remember there is a lot of personal color choice in this. Some like it whiter others like it bluer.

If your looking to mininize your new LED's I'd go with 12 Blues and 2 Neutral Whites. Then when you see the color from these you can decide what you want to do afrter running.

24 Royal Blues
12 Blues
12 8 Neutral Whites

If you want it Whiter simply replace some of the Royals with Cool Whites
If you want to get it less pink replace some Royal Blues with your greens
If you want it Bluer cut back on 2 Neutral Whites and replace them with more Blues.


__________________
Dennis B.

Current Tank Info: Main tank 120 Gallon, 432 Watts T-5's plus 30 Watts of LED's, Frag 40 Gallon tank 234 Watts T-5's, 3 Frag tanks all 40 Gallon with LED lighting between 60 and 84 Watts. All LEDs are DIY Oh and then there is fresh water tanks 270 gallons
TropTrea is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04/08/2012, 05:53 PM   #1028
jeremyblu
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 115
Need some new pics of your tank Katchupoy!!


jeremyblu is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04/09/2012, 09:51 AM   #1029
katchupoy
Moved On
 
katchupoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Kent, WA
Posts: 1,548
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremyblu View Post
Need some new pics of your tank Katchupoy!!
Last February, I had a major tank crash. My kalk reactor malfunctioned, 5 days after i re-introduced it to my tank. Lost a lot of LPS, a colony of hammer and a colony of candy cane. So to people who are thinking about using Kalkwasser. Please be very careful and double or triple check everything. Murphy's law.

Here is the tank after the crash. 16 months of 36 x Cree LEDs.


Link to my website.


katchupoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04/09/2012, 01:46 PM   #1030
TropTrea
Registered Member
 
TropTrea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: SE Suburbia Wisconsin
Posts: 2,910
Quote:
Originally Posted by katchupoy View Post
Last February, I had a major tank crash. My kalk reactor malfunctioned, 5 days after i re-introduced it to my tank. Lost a lot of LPS, a colony of hammer and a colony of candy cane. So to people who are thinking about using Kalkwasser. Please be very careful and double or triple check everything. Murphy's law.

Here is the tank after the crash. 16 months of 36 x Cree LEDs.


Link to my website.
I actualy do use kalkwasser. However I do not use an automatic dosing system. I simly add 0ne gallon of the solution to my system every night. Through time and expermentation I find this amout in slightly less than what I use on a normal bases. I do check Alk and Calcium monthly now and will usualy have to do a slight additional dosing at that time.

But this is a light tread so we should get back to lighting here.


__________________
Dennis B.

Current Tank Info: Main tank 120 Gallon, 432 Watts T-5's plus 30 Watts of LED's, Frag 40 Gallon tank 234 Watts T-5's, 3 Frag tanks all 40 Gallon with LED lighting between 60 and 84 Watts. All LEDs are DIY Oh and then there is fresh water tanks 270 gallons
TropTrea is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04/09/2012, 01:49 PM   #1031
katchupoy
Moved On
 
katchupoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Kent, WA
Posts: 1,548
Question, I posted a picture but i dont see it now... am i the only one?




katchupoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04/09/2012, 01:51 PM   #1032
katchupoy
Moved On
 
katchupoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Kent, WA
Posts: 1,548
Thats weird. On my firefox it does not show, but on my chrome it shows...


katchupoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04/26/2012, 04:45 AM   #1033
SWF
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 36
Hi Ceasar, Dennis,

One more question from end... what would be the ideal size of the Aluminium channel.. in terms of thickness and width..

Thank you,
SWF


SWF is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04/26/2012, 08:24 AM   #1034
TropTrea
Registered Member
 
TropTrea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: SE Suburbia Wisconsin
Posts: 2,910
Quote:
Originally Posted by SWF View Post
Hi Ceasar, Dennis,

One more question from end... what would be the ideal size of the Aluminium channel.. in terms of thickness and width..

Thank you,
SWF
I prefer using 2" X 1" channels. This gives 8" of surface are for each 1" of leght. Cooling is important and with 3" of space between LED's you have 24 square inches of cooling which is good for 3 Watt LED's without fans. If you go to 4" spacing you have 32 square inches of cooling and do not have to worry about running the LED's at 1150ma which can be as high as 4 Watts without cooling fans.

But remember you need at least 1/2" space between rails for air flow otherwide you loose some of the cooling effect.

If you use narrower Channeling it is not a problem as long as you spread the LED's further apart or use a bunch of cooling fans.

With 2" channeling you can actualy creat a gid of LED's 2.5" X 3" and on a 120 gallon tank give you a total of 112 LED's which would be way over kill without using any noisey fans.


__________________
Dennis B.

Current Tank Info: Main tank 120 Gallon, 432 Watts T-5's plus 30 Watts of LED's, Frag 40 Gallon tank 234 Watts T-5's, 3 Frag tanks all 40 Gallon with LED lighting between 60 and 84 Watts. All LEDs are DIY Oh and then there is fresh water tanks 270 gallons

Last edited by TropTrea; 04/26/2012 at 09:06 AM.
TropTrea is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04/26/2012, 08:27 AM   #1035
katchupoy
Moved On
 
katchupoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Kent, WA
Posts: 1,548
SWF
At least 1 inch wider. If you want your leds close together, closer then 2.5 inches then go wider. You need as much material in there to serve as heatsink.. Or if not wider then taller like a You channel instead of C channel. That's the idea.


katchupoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04/27/2012, 05:02 AM   #1036
SWF
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 36
Thank you Dennis and Ceasar.

What do you think of a " H " channel.. the horizontal section of the channel is 1 inch and the vertical legs 2 inch... will this be a reasonable choice.


SWF is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04/27/2012, 09:20 AM   #1037
TheFishMan65
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 4,618
If you mounted on the 2 inch section. I think the 1 inch would have the legs blocking the LED (unless you are using lenses).


__________________
Click my home page for Thread Summaries

Current Tank Info: 75 gallon lps and fish
TheFishMan65 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04/27/2012, 09:42 AM   #1038
katchupoy
Moved On
 
katchupoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Kent, WA
Posts: 1,548
i prefer the 2 inch side... you will trap heat air inside that H if you install it on the 1 inch side.. Use the two inch side... wider material to attach to....


katchupoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04/27/2012, 11:28 AM   #1039
SWF
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 36
Am planning to use it something like this. Will this be okay ? Also, how thick should be the aluminum channel.


Attached Images
File Type: jpg H - LED.jpg (8.0 KB, 19 views)
SWF is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04/27/2012, 11:53 AM   #1040
katchupoy
Moved On
 
katchupoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Kent, WA
Posts: 1,548
Yes that is correct. Thickness not sure. The thickest that you can afford i guess


katchupoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04/27/2012, 12:05 PM   #1041
TheFishMan65
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 4,618
I am not a thermodynamic person but as I understand.
You want lots of surface area to get rid of the heat to the air. The Aluminum only needs to be thick enough to move the heat through the channel. Since fins on a CPU heat sink are pretty thin I expect 1/10 - 1/8 would be fine.


__________________
Click my home page for Thread Summaries

Current Tank Info: 75 gallon lps and fish
TheFishMan65 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04/27/2012, 10:06 PM   #1042
TropTrea
Registered Member
 
TropTrea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: SE Suburbia Wisconsin
Posts: 2,910
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFishMan65 View Post
I am not a thermodynamic person but as I understand.
You want lots of surface area to get rid of the heat to the air. The Aluminum only needs to be thick enough to move the heat through the channel. Since fins on a CPU heat sink are pretty thin I expect 1/10 - 1/8 would be fine.
Yes the way heat is dispensated is through surface area. Volumn basicly has very little effect other than slowing the heating or cooling. So idealy the thinner the material and more surface are it had the better. However unless your spacing your LED's closer than 2.5" apart 2" channeling without fans is adequate. Heat sinks are more effecient but also much more costly. In most DIY applications they are over kill as well as Fans. On comercial fixtures they are crammng a lot ogf LED's in small area often only 1 inch apart so then they need to use every trick in the book to get enough cooling.


__________________
Dennis B.

Current Tank Info: Main tank 120 Gallon, 432 Watts T-5's plus 30 Watts of LED's, Frag 40 Gallon tank 234 Watts T-5's, 3 Frag tanks all 40 Gallon with LED lighting between 60 and 84 Watts. All LEDs are DIY Oh and then there is fresh water tanks 270 gallons
TropTrea is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04/27/2012, 10:14 PM   #1043
TropTrea
Registered Member
 
TropTrea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: SE Suburbia Wisconsin
Posts: 2,910
Quote:
Originally Posted by SWF View Post
Am planning to use it something like this. Will this be okay ? Also, how thick should be the aluminum channel.
Thickness is not an issue other than for structural strenght. For cooling the big factor is the surface area of the material. If you have a 1/2 inch space between these rails you should be okay. But I'd like to see the dimensions so I can give you an idea of your minimum spacing between LED's on this material.


__________________
Dennis B.

Current Tank Info: Main tank 120 Gallon, 432 Watts T-5's plus 30 Watts of LED's, Frag 40 Gallon tank 234 Watts T-5's, 3 Frag tanks all 40 Gallon with LED lighting between 60 and 84 Watts. All LEDs are DIY Oh and then there is fresh water tanks 270 gallons
TropTrea is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04/27/2012, 10:20 PM   #1044
TropTrea
Registered Member
 
TropTrea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: SE Suburbia Wisconsin
Posts: 2,910
Quote:
Originally Posted by SWF View Post
Thank you Dennis and Ceasar.

What do you think of a " H " channel.. the horizontal section of the channel is 1 inch and the vertical legs 2 inch... will this be a reasonable choice.
This gives you roughly just under 6 square inches of surface area per inch of lenght. You want at least 16 square inches of surface area per LED with 24 square inches being ideal. With that in mind the ideal is a 4" spread between LED's but if need by you can go as close as 2 3/4 inches between LED's. At 4" you will not need fans. but under 4" you may want to consider either fans or running the LE'd at under a 1,000 ma. Note the 2 3/4" spacing would be safe at 700 ma.


__________________
Dennis B.

Current Tank Info: Main tank 120 Gallon, 432 Watts T-5's plus 30 Watts of LED's, Frag 40 Gallon tank 234 Watts T-5's, 3 Frag tanks all 40 Gallon with LED lighting between 60 and 84 Watts. All LEDs are DIY Oh and then there is fresh water tanks 270 gallons
TropTrea is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04/29/2012, 10:00 AM   #1045
SWF
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 36
Hi Dennis, Ceasar,

Thank you so much for your inputs.

I actually managed to get hands on some heatsinks... 1.5 inch x .5 Inch with 5 fins.
That gives me 1.5 x 2.5 inches of surface. These are 4 feet in length.

My plan is to have 6 channels with 12 led's on each channel. Each channel is 48 inches in lenght.

The tank is 48 inches long with 2 inches euro braces on the ends and a 2 inch brace in the center. The 2 braces at the end will reduce the lighting area by 4 inches length wise. That will give me 44 inches of open space on the surface of the tank lenght wise.

With the above details following are my questiosn :
1) Is it advisable to cut the heatsinks to 44 inches since the reduction lenght will reduce the total weight.
2) What would be the ideal spacing between two LEDS.
3) Is it possible to mix blue and white leds.. have six blue and six white on a single channel driven by a single driver... the LED's I am going to use are XP-G R5 LEDs CW and XP-E RB.

i will be back with more questions....

Thanks again for all your help !


SWF is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04/29/2012, 10:07 AM   #1046
SWF
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 36
Hi Ceasar,

I need a favor from you.. Will it be possible for you to put together a sketch up model for me.
I tried to download your sketchup model and tried to learn a bit from sketchup training vidoes and update your model to my requeirement .. i tried but it looks like i need to practice sketch up a lot.

If you have sometime .. could you please customize your model for me ...
My tank size is 48Lx24Hx30D with 2 inch euro brach at the ends and one 2 inch brace at the center.
I am planning for 6 channels with 12 LED's on each channel.

I hope you get sometime for me .. I would really appreciate your help. I am so far only because of this thread of yours.

Thanks again for all your help all this while.

Regards,
SWF


SWF is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04/29/2012, 11:07 AM   #1047
InADream
I'm That Guy!!
 
InADream's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 1,169
Katchupoy,

I don't know if you are still doing the designs, but I was hoping that you could help me with my 90 gallon build. I am mainly indeed of help determining if my heats ink will work. I have a 48x18x24 tank and built my my heat sink at 44x12. I am going to use 72 LEDs. My LEDs will be spaced 2.5" apart and 4"center to center of the braces. I will have 4 braces.

Do you think this will give me good coverage. I will probably order 80 degree optics and have the light 8" of the water.

Any help you can give will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks


__________________
Dan

Current Tank:
Innovative Marine Fusion 40, Custom Built Stand, Ecotech XR15w Pro, Ecotech Vortech MP10wes, Ecotech Reef Link, Custom Built Media Caddy, IM Fuge Light, Ghost Skimmer.
InADream is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04/29/2012, 06:16 PM   #1048
TropTrea
Registered Member
 
TropTrea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: SE Suburbia Wisconsin
Posts: 2,910
Quote:
Originally Posted by InADream View Post
Katchupoy,

I don't know if you are still doing the designs, but I was hoping that you could help me with my 90 gallon build. I am mainly indeed of help determining if my heats ink will work. I have a 48x18x24 tank and built my my heat sink at 44x12. I am going to use 72 LEDs. My LEDs will be spaced 2.5" apart and 4"center to center of the braces. I will have 4 braces.

Do you think this will give me good coverage. I will probably order 80 degree optics and have the light 8" of the water.

Any help you can give will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
There is not a lot of detail in your message on what your using for heat sinkks. Is it a solid piece of Alumnium plating that is 44" X 12" wich gives you roughly 1056 square inches of surface area? if so that is roughly 14.5 square inches per LED. With that in mind you do not NOT want to run your LED's up to two 2 watts. Yes they may work there for a while but eventualy will start seeing burnt out LED's.

Now if you purchased a comerciual Allumnium heat sink that is 44 X 12 you would need to look at the specs on it. Some of those will give you 5,000 square inches of cooling surface so with 70 LED's you would have over 70 square inches per LED which would be more than enough for 5 watt LED's without the need for any fans or cooling.


__________________
Dennis B.

Current Tank Info: Main tank 120 Gallon, 432 Watts T-5's plus 30 Watts of LED's, Frag 40 Gallon tank 234 Watts T-5's, 3 Frag tanks all 40 Gallon with LED lighting between 60 and 84 Watts. All LEDs are DIY Oh and then there is fresh water tanks 270 gallons
TropTrea is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04/29/2012, 06:22 PM   #1049
InADream
I'm That Guy!!
 
InADream's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 1,169
Sorry about that, i am using 3/4" c channel. I know that the heat sink will disperse the heat correctly I am worried about the spread of the LEDs. At the current distances will I have enough coverage to have no dark spots or shadowing. Also with the fixture 8" above the water will 80 degree optics be ok.

Thanks,


__________________
Dan

Current Tank:
Innovative Marine Fusion 40, Custom Built Stand, Ecotech XR15w Pro, Ecotech Vortech MP10wes, Ecotech Reef Link, Custom Built Media Caddy, IM Fuge Light, Ghost Skimmer.
InADream is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04/29/2012, 07:57 PM   #1050
TropTrea
Registered Member
 
TropTrea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: SE Suburbia Wisconsin
Posts: 2,910
Quote:
Originally Posted by SWF View Post
Hi Dennis, Ceasar,

Thank you so much for your inputs.

I actually managed to get hands on some heatsinks... 1.5 inch x .5 Inch with 5 fins.
That gives me 1.5 x 2.5 inches of surface. These are 4 feet in length.

My plan is to have 6 channels with 12 led's on each channel. Each channel is 48 inches in lenght.

The tank is 48 inches long with 2 inches euro braces on the ends and a 2 inch brace in the center. The 2 braces at the end will reduce the lighting area by 4 inches length wise. That will give me 44 inches of open space on the surface of the tank lenght wise.

With the above details following are my questiosn :
1) Is it advisable to cut the heatsinks to 44 inches since the reduction lenght will reduce the total weight.
2) What would be the ideal spacing between two LEDS.
3) Is it possible to mix blue and white leds.. have six blue and six white on a single channel driven by a single driver... the LED's I am going to use are XP-G R5 LEDs CW and XP-E RB.

i will be back with more questions....

Thanks again for all your help !
As Im picturing the heat sinks in my head you have about 8 inches of surface area per inch of lenght. Being on the safe side with 25 square inches of surface area for cooling of each LED you need a hair over 3" for your spacing I would normaly go with 3.25". With that in mind a strip of 6 LED's would take up 22.75"" inches. Your openings on the tank are long 21" on each side so with 6 LED's on each of those openings your spacing would be exactly 3" between LED's and 1 1/2" from the end of the openings.

I would leave the strips 48" long and start your LED's 3.5 inches from each end. I would then space them 3" apart which would give you roughly 24 square inches of cooling per LED. You would be leaving the bigger gap in the center of roughly 5". With the 3'5" on the end you can run an aLunium channel between the strips to hold them together and another simular on through the center.

Make sure you have 1/2 minimum spacing between your strips for air circulation, and you should not need a fan for cooling. I'm not sure how wide your tank is and if you have 2" Eurobracing on the Width as well. But your fixture with 6 rails of LED';s would have to be at least 11.5" wide. If your openings are more than 14.5" you can simply put more spacing between the Rails.

When mixing types OF LED's on a singly driver chain you need to watch there rated voltage. In the case of mixong Cree XP-E Royal Blues and Any of the XP-G whites the voltage at the sme current is close enough not to give you an issue. I actualy have several runs of 2 XP-G Neutral Whites, 6 XP-E Blues, and 4 XP-E Royal Blues.

On a personlal color taste note I do not like running all Royal Blues but mixing them with Blues so the tank not take on that blue purple tint. I also prefer using Neutral Whites over Cool Whites because they are brighter and you can use a higer ratio of blues to the number of Whites to a get simular overall look. I run roughly 3 or 4 Blues to 1 neutral White. But if I was using Cool whites I'd use more of a 1 to 2 Blue to 1 Cool white ratio. Remember this is personal taste and everyones eye preference is different.


__________________
Dennis B.

Current Tank Info: Main tank 120 Gallon, 432 Watts T-5's plus 30 Watts of LED's, Frag 40 Gallon tank 234 Watts T-5's, 3 Frag tanks all 40 Gallon with LED lighting between 60 and 84 Watts. All LEDs are DIY Oh and then there is fresh water tanks 270 gallons
TropTrea is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Yet Another DIY LED Build Thread csarkar001 Do It Yourself 54 05/11/2011 05:55 PM
The start of an LED build Renton777 Do It Yourself 5 01/14/2011 09:58 PM
One quick DIY LED question Impossible Do It Yourself 4 10/27/2010 09:50 AM
Anyone DIY LEDs in their Biocube? bassplaya12 Do It Yourself 13 08/15/2010 01:03 PM
BioCube 14 DIY LED Build DustnF Do It Yourself 19 03/25/2010 10:39 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:57 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2024 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright ©1999-2022
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.