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Unread 05/12/2015, 01:45 PM   #26
bower23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Breadman03 View Post
Part of the issue with an "all-in-one" unit is that while it could be made to be compatible with all the major players of today, it could become obsolete very quickly with the development of new technology. By utilizing modules, Neptune is making their products so that they can grow into future technology without being forced to scrap their current product.

Just imagine all the frustrated owners of older Apex units if they had to go out and buy a brand new unit because they wanted to upgrade to control modern lights, but their old unit couldn't be updated. The current solution allows for cost effective upgrades.

I agree that an all-in-one solution would be nice, but I also think that it would end up falling short due to the constant advance of technology.
The only reason this would be true is if all the new equipment starting using different connections. I haven't seen a different connection for PH, ORP, or Salinity. And the other equipment that would connect wireless. So only the software would need updated. The modules are only for a minor cost savings if you don't want them and a major profit increase if you do. The technology if bought today would probably outlive most peoples tanks and time in the hobby. Again, if done correctly.


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Unread 05/12/2015, 08:51 PM   #27
DaveMorris
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This is pretty amusing. There is absolutely no way at all that a company could make a reasonable profit on an overall product line in the controller market at $600 let alone any less than that and include everything that the OP is asking for. Yes it is correct that it only costs $3 to add this connector or that connector to an all in one style of unit. However, what you are not taking into consideration is the programming and integrated hardware necessary to make that $3 socket do what it is designed to do. As mentioned in another post, this market is too small and the shear number of units that would need to be sold to make this endeavor worthwhile would be massive. It is nowhere near as simple as it may seem. I am a beta tester for a handful of different electronics companies and it can be mind numbing how much effort goes into even the simplest of things. That effort on the part of programmers costs lots of money. I would guess that even if this magical all in one $550 controller would make it to market, at least 75% of the current owners of controllers would not buy it. Why would we when we are happy with what we have?


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Unread 05/12/2015, 09:53 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveMorris View Post
This is pretty amusing. There is absolutely no way at all that a company could make a reasonable profit on an overall product line in the controller market at $600 let alone any less than that and include everything that the OP is asking for. Yes it is correct that it only costs $3 to add this connector or that connector to an all in one style of unit. However, what you are not taking into consideration is the programming and integrated hardware necessary to make that $3 socket do what it is designed to do. As mentioned in another post, this market is too small and the shear number of units that would need to be sold to make this endeavor worthwhile would be massive. It is nowhere near as simple as it may seem. I am a beta tester for a handful of different electronics companies and it can be mind numbing how much effort goes into even the simplest of things. That effort on the part of programmers costs lots of money. I would guess that even if this magical all in one $550 controller would make it to market, at least 75% of the current owners of controllers would not buy it. Why would we when we are happy with what we have?
If it's so hard then the current system wouldn't exist. All these things are already being programed into separate modules. It's all there already just needs to be put together into a better package.


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Unread 05/12/2015, 10:01 PM   #29
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Ok it's obvious this thread is not going to go anywhere. Everyone is too busy to say why this will not work. I've been through innovation training as a product designer to think outside the box and I guess the general public is so confined into there known space anything outside that space is ridiculous. It's funny that not one of the reasons why not even make any logical sense. Oh it will be too hard and cost too much and no one would buy it. I'm sure they said that about the first iPhone or the first laptop. A wireless controlled LED light would have been crazy talk 10 years ago. Oh boy I want a controller with built in wireless and the correct ports, I must be on drugs or live in crazy town. Again, it's a known fact in the design community that people will defend a product they own just to justify their decision even if it's wrong. We see it in test groups all the time. Oh well, I tried.


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Unread 05/12/2015, 10:20 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by bower23 View Post
It's funny that not one of the reasons why not even make any logical sense.
At least two folks, myself included, stated that a 'modular' approach is our preferred approach. That seems quite 'logical' to me, to pay for those features you want rather than be stuck with things you don't need in an all-in-one.


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Unread 05/12/2015, 10:43 PM   #31
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Why do I want to subsidize the cost of development to support products I don't own?

My lights are Kessils that use a standard cable connected to the VDM port on my Apex. I added an additional VDM module for more ports to connect a DIY cable to control my pumps. I added a Breakout Box for float switches (and potentially may add switches to the BOB to turn lights on and off when I open cabinet doors). I added a Leak Detection module and two sensors.

Again, why would I want to subsidize the cost of development for a bunch of products and brands I don't own, in your hypothetical controller? Those costs would be folded into the cost of the controller.

What happens when I want to add more switches and other equipment than the controller supports? Do I have to buy an expansion (module) or am I SOL?

Please stop flinging around aspersions that we're all stupid and only you can think outside of the box. The people here, who actually use the hardware, have a good sense of what works and what doesn't. There are many things that are not and never will be wireless capable (e.g. float switches). So you're either going to run out of ports, or you're going to need to buy... gasp... Modules!


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Unread 05/12/2015, 11:11 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by bower23 View Post
Ok it's obvious this thread is not going to go anywhere. Everyone is too busy to say why this will not work. I've been through innovation training as a product designer to think outside the box and I guess the general public is so confined into there known space anything outside that space is ridiculous. It's funny that not one of the reasons why not even make any logical sense. Oh it will be too hard and cost too much and no one would buy it. I'm sure they said that about the first iPhone or the first laptop. A wireless controlled LED light would have been crazy talk 10 years ago. Oh boy I want a controller with built in wireless and the correct ports, I must be on drugs or live in crazy town. Again, it's a known fact in the design community that people will defend a product they own just to justify their decision even if it's wrong. We see it in test groups all the time. Oh well, I tried.
Hey, I have an idea...Since everybody is too busy telling you why this won't work, and you are the only one that is forward thinking and "out of the box" thinking, why don't you design, build and market this all in one $550 controller? I will volunteer to beta test it for free, just to help out on the R&D cost, and I will happily buy the first one. You didn't get the responses that you thought you would or that agree with your opinion so you lash out against all of us. That makes no sense. I would like to think that a lot of us are pretty smart guys and we have made choices in what we buy based on good research. I chose to buy the controller I have specifically because of how it is designed, which is very modular. The money that I paid for a particular module helped pay for that module. Someone else that hasn't purchased that same module isn't wasting their money on features that they don't want or need. Makes perfect sense to me and the literally 1000's of customers that have made the same purchase.


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Unread 05/12/2015, 11:20 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by ca1ore View Post
At least two folks, myself included, stated that a 'modular' approach is our preferred approach. That seems quite 'logical' to me, to pay for those features you want rather than be stuck with things you don't need in an all-in-one.
Again I said for all of you that are happy with the current stuff fine. I'm not suggesting Neptune close it's doors and push all it's products off the dock. I'm just asking for another option.


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Unread 05/12/2015, 11:26 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coelli View Post
Why do I want to subsidize the cost of development to support products I don't own?

My lights are Kessils that use a standard cable connected to the VDM port on my Apex. I added an additional VDM module for more ports to connect a DIY cable to control my pumps. I added a Breakout Box for float switches (and potentially may add switches to the BOB to turn lights on and off when I open cabinet doors). I added a Leak Detection module and two sensors.

Again, why would I want to subsidize the cost of development for a bunch of products and brands I don't own, in your hypothetical controller? Those costs would be folded into the cost of the controller.

What happens when I want to add more switches and other equipment than the controller supports? Do I have to buy an expansion (module) or am I SOL?

Please stop flinging around aspersions that we're all stupid and only you can think outside of the box. The people here, who actually use the hardware, have a good sense of what works and what doesn't. There are many things that are not and never will be wireless capable (e.g. float switches). So you're either going to run out of ports, or you're going to need to buy... gasp... Modules!
So do you have a phone? Do you use all the apps on your phone? Why aren't you mad that you had to pay for the development of those apps that you don't use? And yes there will be people that they will need to add more 'modules' or extensions as one size does not fit all but the one size now fits no one. Standard controller only has 8 outlets. Find me one tank that is not a nano that fits? Most other people need more outlets than that. And no not everyone is stupid but no one else would like this??? Really??? I find that extremely hard to believe. And I addressed float switches as the controller would need built in outlets for.. such things as float switches.


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Unread 05/12/2015, 11:32 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bower23 View Post
Everyone is too busy to say why this will not work. I've been through innovation training as a product designer to think outside the box and I guess the general public is so confined into there known space anything outside that space is ridiculous. It's funny that not one of the reasons why not even make any logical sense.
Let's be fair here: you're not really looking for logical sense. You're looking for cheerleaders for your "outside the box" idea.

Take a look at all the posts in just the past week of people having problems programming their controllers and lights, or getting two lights to work together or wirelessly connect. These are with products that have already been on the market literally for years, and made by companies like AI and Ecotech! And they still don't have the kinks worked out.

Yet in your estimation, integration and networking challenges like these can all be overcome with a "simple software update". That's absurd.

If you spend too much time thinking outside the box, then the box goes out of its way to make you look dumb whenever you poke your head back in with a new idea.


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Unread 05/12/2015, 11:36 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by DaveMorris View Post
Hey, I have an idea...Since everybody is too busy telling you why this won't work, and you are the only one that is forward thinking and "out of the box" thinking, why don't you design, build and market this all in one $550 controller? I will volunteer to beta test it for free, just to help out on the R&D cost, and I will happily buy the first one. You didn't get the responses that you thought you would or that agree with your opinion so you lash out against all of us. That makes no sense. I would like to think that a lot of us are pretty smart guys and we have made choices in what we buy based on good research. I chose to buy the controller I have specifically because of how it is designed, which is very modular. The money that I paid for a particular module helped pay for that module. Someone else that hasn't purchased that same module isn't wasting their money on features that they don't want or need. Makes perfect sense to me and the literally 1000's of customers that have made the same purchase.
Yes thousands of customers have made the same purchase because they have no choice, that is the point. And yes this is ****ing me off because NO ONE took the spirit of this thread as a 'what if or what would you like to see' as I stated. No they just posted negative comments that does no one any good. I suggested something new and everyone got defensive of their own product. I guess I should have expected as much. I'm on a lot of forums and this one has always been helpful and polite. But now I'm not so sure. I tried to contribute an idea that would help many reefers like me. But no, everyone just wants to bash the idea. I can't believe everyone would rather have 6 different modules with wires going everywhere, possible problems with connections between each module, taking up space in a small area, more costs per each module, no wireless function without going to walmart to buy an adapter,... really? That's what you like? That's fine but I expect better.


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Unread 05/12/2015, 11:39 PM   #37
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Seems like you want more for the same price. More outlets. Wireless built-in (reasonable). Support for all of the different light/pump setups. Breakout box. pH/ORP/temp/Salinity ports.

I can see how paying $500+ for a controller and then needing to add modules to get all the functionality that you want is expensive, but the market has already established that it is willing to pay the price. It's not about how much it costs for R&D and production, it's what the people are willing to pay for your product. Even if Apex (or anyone else) is able to produce exactly what you want and still turn a profit, they'd just price it at a premium for the added features. What you're asking for is for a company to produce a superior product and price it at a price that is lower than what the market is willing to pay. Essentially you want more for less.

Also, modularity is not necessarily a bad thing, especially in the aquarium industry. It sucks to have to buy all these add-on's to get the functionality you want, but there are just too many different proprietary connections to have it all in one base unit. Take lighting for example. The main players in LED are AI, Ecotech, and Kessil. All of which have their own wireless protocol (Kessil AP700 is wireless I believe, but the A360WE's use an analog signal via 3.5mm cable).

What happens when these need to be updated on the software side? You say it's a simple upgrade, but juggling all of the bug fixes and updates for just these three fixtures is very difficult and time consuming for a single company. On top of that, I'm assuming you'll be using a phone/tablet/browser, then you'll have to update all the separate devices in different software languages for all of the different software versions (iOS 7 vs iOS 8, Jelly bean vs Ice cream sandwich, Chrome vs Firefox vs Safari). It's not that easy.

What about the Chinese fixtures that MANY people use? Or the smaller, but quality companies like Nano Box? What if a new player comes into the LED game and gains popularity, say if Jebao released a light. If only there was a way to accommodate all this diversity and not have the consumer pay for all the connections/features they want or do not want.

Sorry to pile it on, but you do bring up some good points and this is how innovation starts. I just don't think you've thought it through all the way. A more reasonable approach for Neptune is to update (not overhaul) their current controller with built in wireless and maybe have some more ports built into the base unit. This is basically the Digital Aquatics Archon controller and (correct me if I'm wrong) it's not doing well.


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Unread 05/12/2015, 11:39 PM   #38
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Yes, but how many switches will it support? Is it infinitely expandable?

My tank (not a nano) has a return, skimmer, two LED lights, circulation pump, fuge light, and ATO. I still have outlets open on my EB8. Reactors are run off a manifold. I don't want to pay for extra outlets I'll never use. If I need more, I can pick up an EB4 or EB8.


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Unread 05/12/2015, 11:39 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tang Salad View Post
Let's be fair here: you're not really looking for logical sense. You're looking for cheerleaders for your "outside the box" idea.

Take a look at all the posts in just the past week of people having problems programming their controllers and lights, or getting two lights to work together or wirelessly connect. These are with products that have already been on the market literally for years, and made by companies like AI and Ecotech! And they still don't have the kinks worked out.

Yet in your estimation, integration and networking challenges like these can all be overcome with a "simple software update". That's absurd.

If you spend too much time thinking outside the box, then the box goes out of its way to make you look dumb whenever you poke your head back in with a new idea.

Hey look, first off don't call me dumb. Yes there will always be problems with any company but if you had the right people working a software update can correct the problems. That's why they have software updates.. because it fixes problems. So it's not absurd. Go stick your head back in a box.


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Unread 05/12/2015, 11:47 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by itzonlithai View Post
Seems like you want more for the same price. More outlets. Wireless built-in (reasonable). Support for all of the different light/pump setups. Breakout box. pH/ORP/temp/Salinity ports.

I can see how paying $500+ for a controller and then needing to add modules to get all the functionality that you want is expensive, but the market has already established that it is willing to pay the price. It's not about how much it costs for R&D and production, it's what the people are willing to pay for your product. Even if Apex (or anyone else) is able to produce exactly what you want and still turn a profit, they'd just price it at a premium for the added features. What you're asking for is for a company to produce a superior product and price it at a price that is lower than what the market is willing to pay. Essentially you want more for less.

Also, modularity is not necessarily a bad thing, especially in the aquarium industry. It sucks to have to buy all these add-on's to get the functionality you want, but there are just too many different proprietary connections to have it all in one base unit. Take lighting for example. The main players in LED are AI, Ecotech, and Kessil. All of which have their own wireless protocol (Kessil AP700 is wireless I believe, but the A360WE's use an analog signal via 3.5mm cable).

What happens when these need to be updated on the software side? You say it's a simple upgrade, but juggling all of the bug fixes and updates for just these three fixtures is very difficult and time consuming for a single company. On top of that, I'm assuming you'll be using a phone/tablet/browser, then you'll have to update all the separate devices in different software languages for all of the different software versions (iOS 7 vs iOS 8, Jelly bean vs Ice cream sandwich, Chrome vs Firefox vs Safari). It's not that easy.

What about the Chinese fixtures that MANY people use? Or the smaller, but quality companies like Nano Box? What if a new player comes into the LED game and gains popularity, say if Jebao released a light. If only there was a way to accommodate all this diversity and not have the consumer pay for all the connections/features they want or do not want.

Sorry to pile it on, but you do bring up some good points and this is how innovation starts. I just don't think you've thought it through all the way. A more reasonable approach for Neptune is to update (not overhaul) their current controller with built in wireless and maybe have some more ports built into the base unit. This is basically the Digital Aquatics Archon controller and (correct me if I'm wrong) it's not doing well.
The money thing was never a huge point. Yes I would like to see it around $500 but if it's $700 because that is what the market will pay, then so be it. As long as it's a superior product. And the reason for suggesting Ecotech for the job is they would make sure their product communicates with the unit. It would be difficult for Neptune to build in control of another companies units and have to continually change their product to match. That would be ridiculous. But with Ecotech and AI having a large portion of the market with their lights and pumps, I just thought a controller to link all their systems together would be a perfect next step. It's like a company making the best engines, transmissions, and tires. Why not use that to make your own car?
Nothing Digital Aquatics is doing is going well.


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Unread 05/12/2015, 11:51 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Coelli View Post
Yes, but how many switches will it support? Is it infinitely expandable?

My tank (not a nano) has a return, skimmer, two LED lights, circulation pump, fuge light, and ATO. I still have outlets open on my EB8. Reactors are run off a manifold. I don't want to pay for extra outlets I'll never use. If I need more, I can pick up an EB4 or EB8.
So you going to call Neptune and ask for a refund on the outlets you still have open because you don't want to pay for them? Or are you glad they are there in case you need them? So 10 outlets would send you into a fury? Or what if you needed 9... you are just going to buy a EB4 no problem and not complain about those 3 outlets you don't need. ???


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Unread 05/12/2015, 11:57 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by bower23 View Post
The money thing was never a huge point. Yes I would like to see it around $500 but if it's $700 because that is what the market will pay, then so be it. As long as it's a superior product. And the reason for suggesting Ecotech for the job is they would make sure their product communicates with the unit. It would be difficult for Neptune to build in control of another companies units and have to continually change their product to match. That would be ridiculous. But with Ecotech and AI having a large portion of the market with their lights and pumps, I just thought a controller to link all their systems together would be a perfect next step. It's like a company making the best engines, transmissions, and tires. Why not use that to make your own car?
Nothing Digital Aquatics is doing is going well.
I believe the profilux is a superior product, but it costs more than what I'm willing to pay. The beauty of Apex is that with one simple MODULE (WXM) you could wirelessly control your Vortech pumps and Radion lights from the same controller that controls the rest of your aquarium. Or if you have AI, you can buy the AWM Module. Sure, you can have these built in, but it would drive up the cost of the controller and deter potential customers that use one or the other or like me that use neither (I use Kessils). Why would I want to pay for a controller that has wireless control built in for a brand I don't want to use?

Edit: Money maybe not be an issue for some, but for most it's pretty important. Anyone can make a better controller, but why do it if it ends up costing so much that no one would buy it.


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Unread 05/12/2015, 11:59 PM   #43
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Love your ideas man, keep em coming! I hope more folks build up on them. Your main post was quite hard to read so I hope this summarizes it (please correct or expand/expound):
  • controller with everything built-in, without having to buy additional modules
    • 3 packages/levels based on type of system (e.g. Nano, Reef, Pro)
    • Price: Reef (mid-level system): ~$500
    • Number of outlets: Nano: 6, Reef: 10-12, Pro: 2 x 10-12
    • Monitoring: Reef (mid-level system): pH, ORP, Salinity, float/switch inputs, leak detection bult-in by default (should not be purchased as extra modules)
    • Probes: sold separately based on need
    • Wireless built-in (and should be able to connect to VorTechs, Radions, Hydra, etc)
    • ETM should come out with feeder, webcam, and dosing pump that can be connected wirelessly to the controller; come out with skimmer that notifies controller when skimmer cup is full
    • Display: not needed -- use phone, tablet, or computer to control. Provide option for add-on display from a built-in port.
    • Maintenance scheduling: calendar based
    • system should be designed with web/internet interface by default



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Unread 05/13/2015, 12:00 AM   #44
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Ok so obviously I hit a nerve... just trying to suggest a new product evidently is demon work. Kinda like that Progressive commercial where they keep killing Flo. I'll send my recommendation to Ecotech and see what they think. Is there road blocks or reasons YOU may not like it? Of course. My shoes don't fit you, my pants don't fit you but someone made them and I bought them. New products get designed, manufactured, and sold every day. They don't stop because it might be hard or it will take time. I'm sure if it makes sense for Ecotech to make a controller they will. I'm sure they have a whole team of people working on new product. Neptune is not a bad product and I'm sure it fits many people. I bought one and I hope it fits my needs for now. It wouldn't make sense for them to build an all in one as they don't make any of the other components. Ecotech isn't going to call up Neptune and say hey we are making a new light and they is how you need to change your product. But if Ecotech was making the controller, I bet they would make sure it paired up with their lights and pumps. Anyhow... I've loved this forum since 2004 and this is the first time I've felt the urge to never come back. So before I start to hate this forum, I'm going to ask the Mods to please remove this thread. It's not worth the hassle. I want to continue to like this forum and contribute, although I guess I should just keep my mouth shut. Bummer...


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Unread 05/13/2015, 12:04 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itzonlithai View Post
I believe the profilux is a superior product, but it costs more than what I'm willing to pay. The beauty of Apex is that with one simple MODULE (WXM) you could wirelessly control your Vortech pumps and Radion lights from the same controller that controls the rest of your aquarium. Or if you have AI, you can buy the AWM Module. Sure, you can have these built in, but it would drive up the cost of the controller and deter potential customers that use one or the other or like me that use neither (I use Kessils). Why would I want to pay for a controller that has wireless control built in for a brand I don't want to use?

Edit: Money maybe not be an issue for some, but for most it's pretty important. Anyone can make a better controller, but why do it if it ends up costing so much that no one would buy it.
Again... I'm not saying the Apex is junk or isn't a fair option for those that it fits. But I'm saying for those of us that have Vortech, Radions, or Hydras a all in one wireless controller would be nice. That is all...


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Unread 05/13/2015, 12:06 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by rsuplido View Post
Love your ideas man, keep em coming! I hope more folks build up on them. Your main post was quite hard to read so I hope this summarizes it (please correct or expand/expound):
  • controller with everything built-in, without having to buy additional modules
    • 3 packages/levels based on type of system (e.g. Nano, Reef, Pro)
    • Price: Reef (mid-level system): ~$500
    • Number of outlets: Nano: 6, Reef: 10-12, Pro: 2 x 10-12
    • Monitoring: Reef (mid-level system): pH, ORP, Salinity, float/switch inputs, leak detection bult-in by default (should not be purchased as extra modules)
    • Probes: sold separately based on need
    • Wireless built-in (and should be able to connect to VorTechs, Radions, Hydra, etc)
    • ETM should come out with feeder, webcam, and dosing pump that can be connected wirelessly to the controller; come out with skimmer that notifies controller when skimmer cup is full
    • Display: not needed -- use phone, tablet, or computer to control. Provide option for add-on display from a built-in port.
    • Maintenance scheduling: calendar based
    • system should be designed with web/internet interface by default
Yep, thanks for the summery. I wish someone wanted to add or contribute but it seems like everyone just wants to bash. Seems like a simple idea and made from so many complaints I've read or watched on youtube. I was just trying to give a solution.


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Unread 05/13/2015, 12:14 AM   #47
DaveMorris
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Originally Posted by bower23 View Post
And yes this is ****ing me off because NO ONE took the spirit of this thread as a 'what if or what would you like to see' as I stated. No they just posted negative comments that does no one any good. I suggested something new and everyone got defensive of their own product.
The reason why you got the responses you did is because you have posed a completely unrealistic scenario. As many here have stated, in a very polite way for the most part, there is no way that this would happen for anywhere near your price point. It simply costs too much to make, especially when you factor in profitability to the manufacturer along with an industry standard retail mark up. Combine these very basic business principles with the enormous cost of software development which, by the way, is ongoing to keep up with the ever-changing products that people are putting out and users want to control, and you have an unrealistic cost. All of this in a relatively small market.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bower23 View Post
Yes there will always be problems with any company but if you had the right people working a software update can correct the problems. That's why they have software updates.. because it fixes problems.
This is very true. Guess what those software updates are going to need in order to be released by the company?? Money and lots of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bower23 View Post
The money thing was never a huge point. Yes I would like to see it around $500 but if it's $700 because that is what the market will pay, then so be it. As long as it's a superior product. And the reason for suggesting Ecotech for the job is they would make sure their product communicates with the unit. It would be difficult for Neptune to build in control of another companies units and have to continually change their product to match. That would be ridiculous. But with Ecotech and AI having a large portion of the market with their lights and pumps, I just thought a controller to link all their systems together would be a perfect next step. It's like a company making the best engines, transmissions, and tires. Why not use that to make your own car?
Nothing Digital Aquatics is doing is going well.
What if I have Vortech pumps and an AI light fixture? That just negated this whole argument.

And I politely disagree with you on your comment about Digital Aquatics. The RKE/RKL and Herpkeeper lines are still going strong, still being made, used, sold, etc. Are these units perfect and address every need? Nope, but nobody else is either. The new Archon is definitely going at least "well". Is it ready for prime time? Some say yes and some say no.

By the way, you should actually look at some of the controller packages that are available. If you are willing to go up to $700 for your controller purchase, what is currently available isn't too far off between the Apex, Archon, and Reef Angel. $700 for all you want? No, but fairly close depending on what you need. None of these companies are making millions off of us so I would say their margins are probably pretty tight as it is. I just think while what you want is great, it is simply unrealistic inside or outside "the box".


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Unread 05/13/2015, 12:20 AM   #48
rsuplido
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bower23 View Post
Yep, thanks for the summery. I wish someone wanted to add or contribute but it seems like everyone just wants to bash. Seems like a simple idea and made from so many complaints I've read or watched on youtube. I was just trying to give a solution.
Yup, quite sad. Maybe you should have posted this at the ETM Sponsor Forum if you want to get ETM's and ETM fans' attention.


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Unread 05/13/2015, 12:22 AM   #49
itzonlithai
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Originally Posted by bower23 View Post
Again... I'm not saying the Apex is junk or isn't a fair option for those that it fits. But I'm saying for those of us that have Vortech, Radions, or Hydras a all in one wireless controller would be nice. That is all...
Oh, sorry. I know I used Neptune as a sole example, but I was just defending the modular design as opposed to having one unit with all the major players having controls built in. My point still stands that he support, even on the software side, for such a unit would be too much. Then there's the issue about paying for a controller that controls my Radions, but not needing (but still paying for) controls for AI.

Don't be discouraged from this forum, it contains a wealth of information and it's only because people contribute to discussions like this. Some ideas are a hit and miss, and it seems like the general consensus is that this is more of a miss. That does not mean that the opinion can sway or one party is right or wrong, it's just an opinion. Besides, the general public has been wrong before (especially when it comes to sports betting lol).


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Unread 05/13/2015, 12:28 AM   #50
Coelli
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bower23 View Post
Again... I'm not saying the Apex is junk or isn't a fair option for those that it fits. But I'm saying for those of us that have Vortech, Radions, or Hydras a all in one wireless controller would be nice. That is all...
Well, if you're wondering why your thread went south, here's one example:

Quote:
Now if Neptune came out with this exact request and could build in control directly for Vortech, Radion, and Hydra products, great. But they have already proven they want you to buy modules and spend more money. So someone needs to knock them off their horse.
For someone who has the products you have, that's great and I can see why you want an integrated system. You just went further than that in your posts and some of your comments were snarky toward anyone who doesn't have the same needs/wants as you and finds the Apex already suits them fine.

Addit: By the way, I work in the software development industry. Software doesn't come cheap, nor does the QA, licensing, etc. that would be needed along with every new product that would need to be supported.


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