DIY Sump Design

aSmallcat · 06/18/2017, 08:05 PM

I finally got permission from the boss to set up the aquarium with a sump so I sketched out my basic plan. I have never built one myself so I am looking to get some advice, reviews and suggestions from those of you who may have experience in this area.

The plan is to have the water from my overflow box stir a fluid bed media chamber via gravity. Then flow into two stationary mechanical filtration chambers and one chemical media chamber. Finally ending up in a pump return chamber for returning the water back to the main display tank.

Let me know what you think!

aSmallcat · 06/18/2017, 08:42 PM

I Realized there were some water level discrepancies with my initial draft of the sump so here is a revised edition.

minus

45commando · 06/18/2017, 09:32 PM

You changed the weirs from design #1 to #2, so just be aware that the water level in the "Chemical Media Chamber" in design #2 will be the same as the pump return water level.
I would also suggest you do plenty of simulated power outage runs, to make sure the sump can handle the extra water volume. Go larger if possible, incase you ever install a larger return pump- more flow means more water in the sump, if power goes out. HTH

aSmallcat · 06/18/2017, 09:43 PM

I'm thinking just activated carbon for my chemical media section. So no problem if its water level fluctuates with the pump chamber.

Good idea on the power outage testing. I'll be sure to do that before setting up in the house.

Any thoughts on the fluid media chamber? Im looking at micro k1.My concern is that the force of the water from the overflow won't be enough to properly cycle the media. Not really wanting to add air bubbles to it if I can avoid it.

Also any suggestions on media type would be appreciated.

45commando · 06/18/2017, 09:54 PM

Sorry, can't help on media selection. I'm kinda old school & not up to date at all on all the filter media selections. I'm sure some other guys will be able to help you with that. Best of luck with your new build.

NanoReefWanabe · 06/20/2017, 12:14 AM

Personally I think dumping protein, detritus rich overflow water into any sort of media is a very bad idea... also all the media chambers seem like a huge waste of space...i would scrap the first three section make one fire a skimmer.. use the last of as a "polishing" section whee you can choose to run filter floss with carbon pads or nitrate or po4 pads... and cal it a day..i think you are over complicating something that is better left simple

Kodock · 06/20/2017, 10:53 PM

I agree with Nano. The media compatment may be overkill. However, filter floss can be a nightmare and leech everywhere and clog up a pump. You would have more efficient results with reactors that contain the media you desire. Water running over media is different from water tumbling media. Stock the sump with live rock instead, possibly some xenia. Check out 2 chamber sumps. You can set the return chamber wider and higher, making top offs less frequent and allow placement for large live rock.

Media stagnant and/or exposed to wet/dry filtration type methods may help amonia and nitrite, but it can be a detritus trap or oxygen rich resovoir for nitrates.
Dirty tanks typically do better. Sps (corals) love nutrient rich water. The sump is just a place to hide an oversized protein skimmer and trap bubbles for a clear return, and nothing more. Unless you have a DSB (Deep Sand Bed) refugium chamber with rock and some frags.

Google xenia sump. Have things that will literally eat the nitrates whether it be corals or bacteria.

SFish · 06/21/2017, 08:13 AM

I would put a bubble trap before the return pump. Right off the overflow is where you would run filter socks if you want to. Not sure what you mean by fluid media but if you want to run bio pellets I would put the reactor out side the sump. There is no reason to have it in there. I would redesign the whole thing. The first chamber would have your skimmer and if you want filter socks. There is no reason to have all those small sections in a sump.

Clowning_Around · 06/21/2017, 04:02 PM

Actually he already has a bubble trap inherent to all those small chambers, it just so happens to be incorporated/doubling up with the media chambers.

Figure out your gph, figure out your equipment as well and calculate your excess when the power goes out. With those you can get a good idea of bare minimum size and start adding the other chambers and future proofing space if its home provides room to do so.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

SFish · 06/21/2017, 04:11 PM

Wouldn't that depend on how far apart the chambers are or does that not matter? In a bubble trap the gap is only 1" apart.

SFish · 06/21/2017, 04:14 PM

In any case your basic sump design would be something a long these lines

http://gmacreef.com/reef-aquarium-sump-tank-design/

NanoReefWanabe · 06/21/2017, 11:51 PM

Space between gaps is irrelevant for bubbles, as long as the water is forced to go under a baffle and the flow isn't ridiculous the bubbles will be forced to stop

aSmallcat · 06/22/2017, 05:32 AM

I doubt the bubbles will be able to make it past the second chamber.

One of my intentions with this project is to simplify filter maintenance. To that end the media in each chamber will be stored individually in media bags for quick and easy removal. When is time to clean I just remove the spent or dirty media and rinse or replace.

I was initially considering filter socks but with the design above I don't think they're necessary anymore. The first three chambers are meant to handle and process any debris and fish waste. The fourth chamber will be activated carbon.

Also my display is only 30 gallons. I could filter it fine with a hang on back setup but the extra water from the sump will help to stabilize the aquarium. Not to mention I can hide all the equipment there.

Ron Reefman · 06/22/2017, 05:37 AM

I'm no expert on fluid bed media filtration, but doesn't it need occasional back flushing to clean it? I see the first chamber getting clogged up with detritus fairly quickly and the water just making a hole to the surface and after that there is no filtration in that chamber.

Search here and you can find a guy who has done a pretty cool fluid bed filter system similar to what some swimming pools use.

aSmallcat · 06/22/2017, 05:59 AM

If it does need back flushing is not heard that before. Something to look into though.

Also I should mention in making this a fresh water tank. Probably should have lead with that.

SFish · 06/22/2017, 07:46 AM

Yeah you don't need all those baffles for bags of media. Your looking at what a 5 or 10 gallon sump? I would go with 2 chambers at the most in that small of a tank.

aSmallcat · 06/22/2017, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SFish

Yeah you don't need all those baffles for bags of media. Your looking at what a 5 or 10 gallon sump? I would go with 2 chambers at the most in that small of a tank.

Yes it's a 10 gallon tank I'm using for the sump.

The reason for the multiple chambers is that I want the water polished and if I reduce the chambers to only two I lose the ability to start filtering large debris first. Everything would go to my fine filter and clog it up. Or I'd have to compromise and settle for something that doesn't pull the fine particulate from the water. Also I want to make sure I have plenty of room for beneficial bacteria to grow and breakdown the waste.

My tank will be planted too and that'll help breakdown the waste from the bacteria. I'm going for a mini ecosystem.

Keep in mind that drawing is not to scale and the chambers will only be as large as needed to fit the media I end up choosing. Most space will go to the pump return. I may even add another baffle to reduce the pumps access to water in case I lose siphon.

I'd rather the pump run dry than overflow my display.

SFish · 06/22/2017, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aSmallcat

Yes it's a 10 gallon tank I'm using for the sump.

The reason for the multiple chambers is that I want the water polished and if I reduce the chambers to only two I lose the ability to start filtering large debris first. Everything would go to my fine filter and clog it up. Or I'd have to compromise and settle for something that doesn't pull the fine particulate from the water. Also I want to make sure I have plenty of room for beneficial bacteria to grow and breakdown the waste.

My tank will be planted too and that'll help breakdown the waste from the bacteria. I'm going for a mini ecosystem.

Keep in mind that drawing is not to scale and the chambers will only be as large as needed to fit the media I end up choosing. Most space will go to the pump return. I may even add another baffle to reduce the pumps access to water in case I lose siphon.

I'd rather the pump run dry than overflow my display.

If I put a bag of carbon in a sump or tank it doesn't make any difference if it has its own section in the sump or not it's going to work with the same effectiveness. That's why I think it's pointless to set it up that way. Unless your forcing all the water to run through each section but what your showing isn't going to do that.

aSmallcat · 06/22/2017, 03:54 PM

The water is forced through each section unless the sump takes on too much water. In that case the water can flow over the top of each section but normal operation is at a lower water volume forcing the water to traverse the baffles.

aSmallcat · 06/22/2017, 03:58 PM

The reason the carbon has its own section is again for easy maintenance purposes. It's last in line because I don't want it acting like a mechanical filter.

SFish · 06/22/2017, 05:12 PM

The first baffle is from bottom to top which means it will set the water height. So some of the water will bypass sections over the top of the other baffles unless you put them up higher when forcing the water to go under the baffles. Besides that if you want to do mechanical filtering be it filter sock, sponge, or what ever all you need is for the water to go through that first and then throw the rest of the bags in after that. All you really need is a reactor and the tank. Have the reactor be your fluid filter and throw the bags in the tank.

aSmallcat · 06/23/2017, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SFish

The first baffle is from bottom to top which means it will set the water height.

I think I see the confusion here. The first baffle sets the height for the first chamber. As soon as the first chamber fills up it begins to spill into the second chamber. From there it will pass through chamber 2 into 3 at the bottom filling them up together. Afterwards the water passes through chamber 4 filling up 4 and 5 together.

aSmallcat · 06/23/2017, 06:46 AM

It's the last baffle to touch the bottom of the tank that sets the water level requirement up to that point.

aSmallcat · 06/23/2017, 08:30 AM

I'm still concerned the fluid bed media won't cycle well. I'm considering changing that to a filter sock instead.

NanoReefWanabe · 06/24/2017, 06:21 AM

You ate going to end up with a tank full of baffles you can't use... that will be completely clogged up with detritus.... there is literally zero point to this design... if you want to run media you use reactors... if you are going to use pads stack them in one section where water falls over and through them...

06/18/2017, 09:32 PM	#3
45commando Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Florida Posts: 1,321	You changed the weirs from design #1 to #2, so just be aware that the water level in the "Chemical Media Chamber" in design #2 will be the same as the pump return water level. I would also suggest you do plenty of simulated power outage runs, to make sure the sump can handle the extra water volume. Go larger if possible, incase you ever install a larger return pump- more flow means more water in the sump, if power goes out. HTH __________________ "It's not the size of the dog in the fight;It's the size of the fight in the dog!" -Sir Winston Churchill. Current Tank Info: 92G Corner tank, 250 wt 14K MH, 20G sump, 5G fuge, mixed reef

06/18/2017, 09:54 PM	#5
45commando Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Florida Posts: 1,321	Sorry, can't help on media selection. I'm kinda old school & not up to date at all on all the filter media selections. I'm sure some other guys will be able to help you with that. Best of luck with your new build. __________________ "It's not the size of the dog in the fight;It's the size of the fight in the dog!" -Sir Winston Churchill. Current Tank Info: 92G Corner tank, 250 wt 14K MH, 20G sump, 5G fuge, mixed reef

06/21/2017, 08:13 AM	#8
SFish Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 2,062	I would put a bubble trap before the return pump. Right off the overflow is where you would run filter socks if you want to. Not sure what you mean by fluid media but if you want to run bio pellets I would put the reactor out side the sump. There is no reason to have it in there. I would redesign the whole thing. The first chamber would have your skimmer and if you want filter socks. There is no reason to have all those small sections in a sump. Last edited by SFish; 06/21/2017 at 08:20 AM.

06/21/2017, 04:02 PM	#9
Clowning_Around Registered Member Join Date: May 2017 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 527	Actually he already has a bubble trap inherent to all those small chambers, it just so happens to be incorporated/doubling up with the media chambers. Figure out your gph, figure out your equipment as well and calculate your excess when the power goes out. With those you can get a good idea of bare minimum size and start adding the other chambers and future proofing space if its home provides room to do so. Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk __________________ Build http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2638892 Parameters: Temp 77-79degF, Specific Gravity 1.023-1.024, PH 8.1-8.4, Alk 8-12, Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 0, Phosphate <.2, Calc 3 Current Tank Info: Custom Oak Stand \| 75G FO Display \| 40G Breeder Sump \| MarinePure Ceramic Media Plate \| Eshopps x-120 skimmer \| Mag9 Return \| Aqua Ultraviolet Advantage 2000+ 15w

06/22/2017, 05:37 AM	#14
Ron Reefman Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Cape Coral, FL Posts: 10,431	I'm no expert on fluid bed media filtration, but doesn't it need occasional back flushing to clean it? I see the first chamber getting clogged up with detritus fairly quickly and the water just making a hole to the surface and after that there is no filtration in that chamber. Search here and you can find a guy who has done a pretty cool fluid bed filter system similar to what some swimming pools use. __________________ The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it. (Neil deGrasse Tyson) Visit my build thread http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2593017

06/18/2017, 08:05 PM	#1
aSmallcat Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 62	DIY Sump Design I finally got permission from the boss to set up the aquarium with a sump so I sketched out my basic plan. I have never built one myself so I am looking to get some advice, reviews and suggestions from those of you who may have experience in this area. The plan is to have the water from my overflow box stir a fluid bed media chamber via gravity. Then flow into two stationary mechanical filtration chambers and one chemical media chamber. Finally ending up in a pump return chamber for returning the water back to the main display tank. Let me know what you think!

06/18/2017, 08:42 PM	#2
aSmallcat Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 62	Water level I Realized there were some water level discrepancies with my initial draft of the sump so here is a revised edition. minus

06/18/2017, 09:43 PM	#4
aSmallcat Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 62	I'm thinking just activated carbon for my chemical media section. So no problem if its water level fluctuates with the pump chamber. Good idea on the power outage testing. I'll be sure to do that before setting up in the house. Any thoughts on the fluid media chamber? Im looking at micro k1.My concern is that the force of the water from the overflow won't be enough to properly cycle the media. Not really wanting to add air bubbles to it if I can avoid it. Also any suggestions on media type would be appreciated.

06/20/2017, 12:14 AM	#6
NanoReefWanabe Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 6,639	Personally I think dumping protein, detritus rich overflow water into any sort of media is a very bad idea... also all the media chambers seem like a huge waste of space...i would scrap the first three section make one fire a skimmer.. use the last of as a "polishing" section whee you can choose to run filter floss with carbon pads or nitrate or po4 pads... and cal it a day..i think you are over complicating something that is better left simple

06/20/2017, 10:53 PM	#7
Kodock Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Georgia Posts: 19	I agree with Nano. The media compatment may be overkill. However, filter floss can be a nightmare and leech everywhere and clog up a pump. You would have more efficient results with reactors that contain the media you desire. Water running over media is different from water tumbling media. Stock the sump with live rock instead, possibly some xenia. Check out 2 chamber sumps. You can set the return chamber wider and higher, making top offs less frequent and allow placement for large live rock. Media stagnant and/or exposed to wet/dry filtration type methods may help amonia and nitrite, but it can be a detritus trap or oxygen rich resovoir for nitrates. Dirty tanks typically do better. Sps (corals) love nutrient rich water. The sump is just a place to hide an oversized protein skimmer and trap bubbles for a clear return, and nothing more. Unless you have a DSB (Deep Sand Bed) refugium chamber with rock and some frags. Google xenia sump. Have things that will literally eat the nitrates whether it be corals or bacteria.

06/21/2017, 04:11 PM	#10
SFish Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 2,062	Wouldn't that depend on how far apart the chambers are or does that not matter? In a bubble trap the gap is only 1" apart.

06/21/2017, 04:14 PM	#11
SFish Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 2,062	In any case your basic sump design would be something a long these lines http://gmacreef.com/reef-aquarium-sump-tank-design/

06/21/2017, 11:51 PM	#12
NanoReefWanabe Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 6,639	Space between gaps is irrelevant for bubbles, as long as the water is forced to go under a baffle and the flow isn't ridiculous the bubbles will be forced to stop

06/22/2017, 05:32 AM	#13
aSmallcat Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 62	I doubt the bubbles will be able to make it past the second chamber. One of my intentions with this project is to simplify filter maintenance. To that end the media in each chamber will be stored individually in media bags for quick and easy removal. When is time to clean I just remove the spent or dirty media and rinse or replace. I was initially considering filter socks but with the design above I don't think they're necessary anymore. The first three chambers are meant to handle and process any debris and fish waste. The fourth chamber will be activated carbon. Also my display is only 30 gallons. I could filter it fine with a hang on back setup but the extra water from the sump will help to stabilize the aquarium. Not to mention I can hide all the equipment there.

06/22/2017, 05:59 AM	#15
aSmallcat Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 62	If it does need back flushing is not heard that before. Something to look into though. Also I should mention in making this a fresh water tank. Probably should have lead with that.

06/22/2017, 07:46 AM	#16
SFish Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 2,062	Yeah you don't need all those baffles for bags of media. Your looking at what a 5 or 10 gallon sump? I would go with 2 chambers at the most in that small of a tank.

06/22/2017, 03:54 PM	#19
aSmallcat Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 62	The water is forced through each section unless the sump takes on too much water. In that case the water can flow over the top of each section but normal operation is at a lower water volume forcing the water to traverse the baffles.

06/22/2017, 03:58 PM	#20
aSmallcat Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 62	The reason the carbon has its own section is again for easy maintenance purposes. It's last in line because I don't want it acting like a mechanical filter.

06/22/2017, 05:12 PM	#21
SFish Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 2,062	The first baffle is from bottom to top which means it will set the water height. So some of the water will bypass sections over the top of the other baffles unless you put them up higher when forcing the water to go under the baffles. Besides that if you want to do mechanical filtering be it filter sock, sponge, or what ever all you need is for the water to go through that first and then throw the rest of the bags in after that. All you really need is a reactor and the tank. Have the reactor be your fluid filter and throw the bags in the tank. Last edited by SFish; 06/22/2017 at 05:28 PM.

06/23/2017, 06:46 AM	#23
aSmallcat Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 62	It's the last baffle to touch the bottom of the tank that sets the water level requirement up to that point.

06/23/2017, 08:30 AM	#24
aSmallcat Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 62	I'm still concerned the fluid bed media won't cycle well. I'm considering changing that to a filter sock instead.

06/24/2017, 06:21 AM	#25
NanoReefWanabe Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 6,639	You ate going to end up with a tank full of baffles you can't use... that will be completely clogged up with detritus.... there is literally zero point to this design... if you want to run media you use reactors... if you are going to use pads stack them in one section where water falls over and through them...