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09/16/2008, 09:55 AM | #1 |
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Live sand:::bogus or really good stuff?
I am wanting to know if anyone thinks that buying live sand in the bag is a waist of money or not. This is what i was looking at and description:
Ocean Direct Caribbean Live Sand * Aragonite live sand with millions of nitrate-reducing bacteria * Ensures faster, safer initial cycling and better bio-filtration once established * Functional marine substrate increases buffering capacity of your aquarium Real Caribbean live sand in a patent pending breathable bag. Ocean Direct aragonite live sand ensures faster, safer initial cycling and better bio-filtration throughout the life of your reef system. Delivers millions of living bacteria per pound, reduces nitrate, enhances buffering for the life of your system, and discourages nuisance algae. Also aids coral growth and resists the precipitation of carbonate minerals. 77% of Original Grade Substrate is, by weight, less than 1 mm in size (most of that are smaller than 0.66 mm). NEW Oolite Substrate is almost exclusively sub 1 mm oolite (most of this will be less than 0.60 mm in size). Used by the foremost public aquariums, research and government institutions, and professionals worldwide. Proven to reduce nitrates. Buffers for the life of the system Discourages nuisance algae Bio-coated surfaces resist the precipitation of carbonate minerals Aids the growth of living corals No silica I have setup a new system. I am going to be putting live rock in and i do have some tanks i can get live sand from to seed my dry sand. I am going to be going with a deep sandbed in my large sump and didn't know if this would benefit anything at all for me, or if i should just buy all dry sand and get about the same amount of sand for less. I was going to buy like 5 bags of dry aragonite sand and 1 bag of this, if it is worth, if not, i will buy 6 bags of the dry stuff. Please reply asap, i am going to need to order this sand right away(before noon, a hour away)..... |
09/16/2008, 10:08 AM | #2 |
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A little bit of live sand is fine to seed the new tank. Has the other tank ever had ich? If so there is a risk of introducing dormant tromonts to the new tank. The dry sand with some live will be fine and less expensive.
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09/16/2008, 10:18 AM | #3 |
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Buy regular aragonite sand from lowes or the fish store.
Take a cup from your friend's reef and add it to your tank, that will make it "live" enough as the tank establishes itself. There's no need to pay for lots of dead bacteria when you can get real live stuff for free.
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09/16/2008, 10:18 AM | #4 |
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So, i wouldn't get any better bacteria with the bag of live sand? I assume i wouldn't get the bacteria that consumes nitrates in a deep sand bed in this live sand? I am guessing not since it would likely have oxygen.......please reply soon
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09/16/2008, 10:21 AM | #5 |
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You say aragonite sand from lowe's?? Whats it called?? I have been looking for such a thing that is cheaper, but have heard that home depot's and lowe's don't carry the brands anymore(yardright and southdown, which were supposed to be calicum carbonate sand from the carribbean)? Please let me know if you know of something different that they are carrying.
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09/16/2008, 11:06 AM | #6 |
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I just used dry reef sand that you buy at the LFS, bought 2-3 different sizes for variety. Then I bough a cupp of live sand from 3 different LFS over about a 3 week period. DSB was cranking in no time. I would not pay the extra for the "live" sand in bags.
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09/16/2008, 11:29 AM | #7 |
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With so many unwanted pests around, I wouldnt recommend using anybodys live sand, ESPECIALLY from any LFS.
Use new dry sand. it will become live soon enough on its own. As far as the OP's original question..yes it is bogus. What is still alive in a bag that has been sitting on a store shelf?? sure the die off will create a cycle and bacteria, but you dont need a cycle to seed it, it just happens a little quicker that way, but you dont need the sand inthe first place for filtration, just good flow thoruhg yoru rocks. the sand will become live in time from the rocks
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09/16/2008, 12:44 PM | #8 | |
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Quote:
It is fine to get LS from others and LFS. Just be sure their system is as clean and well maintained as possible. Look for pests and algae and stock health. By getting sand and rock from multiple sources you increase bio-diversity.
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JR Current Tank Info: 20L Nano | 150 HQI + 2x Atinics + moons | 2 rotating PHs + surface skimmer filter + protein skimmer | DSB + LR | weekly 15% h20 changes |
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09/16/2008, 12:47 PM | #9 | |
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Quote:
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09/16/2008, 12:53 PM | #10 | |
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Do you buy your LR from the LFS?
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09/16/2008, 01:02 PM | #11 | |
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Quote:
the last 3 tanks I have set up have all started with base and a couple pieces from one of my existing systems
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09/16/2008, 01:19 PM | #12 |
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I cook any rock from an LFS for many months before use. Any unwanted pests would be dead.
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09/16/2008, 01:43 PM | #13 | |
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Quote:
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09/16/2008, 01:53 PM | #14 |
oxygen abuser
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but why bother getting LR if you're going to "cook" it for many months? Doesn't that essentially kill even the good hitchhikers like fans, etc?
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09/16/2008, 02:02 PM | #15 | |
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Quote:
most everything lives through it fine that isnt photosynthetic |
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09/16/2008, 02:29 PM | #16 |
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Hi guys i have got in my system caribsea live eragonite and it realy works as they say,i would start my system with live sand
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09/16/2008, 03:47 PM | #17 | |
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Quote:
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09/16/2008, 03:55 PM | #18 | |
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Quote:
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09/16/2008, 05:06 PM | #19 | |
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Quote:
Anyway, cooking, in SHORT is shutting out all light and doing lots of water changes to already well seeded rock. the point is to allow the bacteria to consume the phosphates from within the rock so that the phosphate becomes part of the biomass fo the bacteria. The rock will shed. The shedding that is created is this bacterial biomass being squeezed out of the rock. Is cooking your rock necessary to have a healthy reef?? Absolutely not. Does it give your system a huge advantage over not having cooked it?? absolutely. I have cooked lots of batches and I even have another couple hundred pound batch I just started to seed going right now in plans for my next big tank that is coming soon. I would never start up a reef tank without cooking the rock first. |
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09/16/2008, 09:24 PM | #20 |
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Sounds like you believe in it, and I respect that. I still don't get it and don't see the value. You are saying the it is just about phosphate? That is what you are trying to get out of the rock? Or do you mean organic material in general the rock sheds? I fail to see how putting rock that is from an area that is bathed in sun into a dark place for months to kill off some sub-set of life-mass is somehow beneficial.
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09/16/2008, 09:32 PM | #21 |
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Here is a thread on the site about this. Seems many think it makes sense.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...hreadid=437342 Still don't think I would do it!
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JR Current Tank Info: 20L Nano | 150 HQI + 2x Atinics + moons | 2 rotating PHs + surface skimmer filter + protein skimmer | DSB + LR | weekly 15% h20 changes |
09/16/2008, 11:13 PM | #22 | |
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The only advantage I've found with that product is that it requires much less rinsing. This is actually a pretty nice benefit, and for me, was worth the little extra it cost.
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In fact in many clubs (and even here at RC in years past) people arrange live sand swaps. I'm not sure the boost in diversity is as great as some expect, but the downsides to it are pretty limited. All in all using a little LS from a mature tank has benefits that outweigh the risks....IMHO.
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09/16/2008, 11:22 PM | #23 | |
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Quote:
I hate all sand in the first place, so nothing personal taken. FWIW, I do agree with you that the risk of pests is not all that big of a deal with getting a cup or two of sand from wherever, but it is there just the same I am extremely OCD about how I run my reefs anymore I have had pretty much all the pests at one time or another and it simply isnt worth it to me to risk my corals in any way I do strongly feel that live sand is a crock and a waste of money. When you get the opportunity to start fresh with clean new sand you should take it. The last few tanks I set up when I did use sand i set up that way and they worked great. No complaints, besides otheer reasons why i wont ever use sand again, and beating the BB vs sand horse doesnt belong in this thread so I wont even go there |
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09/16/2008, 11:32 PM | #24 |
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pre packaged live sand is one of the most bogus mark ups I can think of. Mainly because its not live sand. You just as well go dry then to pay for bacteria which is all your doing. REAL live sand is not bogus, prepackaged and has LIVE micro organisms beside bacteria.
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09/16/2008, 11:32 PM | #25 |
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Cool. Glad we got that cleared up.
Edit: This was to flyyyguy...
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