Nautilus

[Magikarp]

i saw a nautilus for sale at my LFS and was wondering are they good additions to a FOWLR?

how difficult are they to keep?

diet?

aggressive?

i just wanted as much information as possible before making any commitments

thanks,

Danny

[L8 2 RISE]

DO NOT DO IT!!!!! They are horrible candidates for a fowlr. They require a large, tall, chilled, calm species tank. Very few people keep or are able to keep them.

[Grandreef 2]

They live hundreds of feet below the surface of the water where it is cool, not much light (eyes not as complexe as their relatives) They are relativly slow and cant really defend themselfs good.

[C-Water]

Best left for the ocean or public aquariums. They are interesting to look at for awhile, but don't move much and need cool water and so on (as stated above). Few people have had any real success. Best to keep them by themselves. By the time they reach the hobbyist, they are pretty "beaten up" and just waste away quickly.

[StanD]

It is my suspicion that within a short time you would either have a dead nautilus or a nautilus only with live rock tank as nautili eat fish.

I would advise agist keeping as we had a professor that maintained a tank of them when I was in grad school and after the first hour of "WOW, these are neat!!!" they were quite boring to watch them float around the tank being moved by the currents of the filtration system.

StanD

[tahoe61]

Unless you have a public aquarium with a 8000 gal tank in your house, do not buy a Nautilus. It is sad that this animal is even for sale, it is doomed to starving to death and all the while trying to escape its small enclosure by banging against the sides. I would let the LFS know the facts regarding this animals husbandry and not give this LFS another dollor of my money. Research.

[L8 2 RISE]

Ok, now this thread is getting out of hand. Yes, nautilus are very hard to keep, yes, they are EXTREMELY boring, but no, they need not be left only to the public aquariums nor enormous aquariums, nor are they likely subjects to starvation. An ideal size for these would be a tank that's something like 2*2*4 feet tall. However they can be kept in different size tanks, and even in standard tanks that aren't extra tall, though I wouldn't suggest it. You will need the tank chilled down to a pretty low temperature, and I wouldn't suggest fish or any other tank mates for that matter. Their eyes can only "see" night and day. You should easily be able to get them eating live foods if you meet all of the above requirements, and they should also go onto frozen pretty well. Many people/places that keep nautilus will end up with eggs at some point, however they take a very long time to hatch (can't actually remember how long), and once they do, so far, no one has raised them to maturity, though I think some have gotten them to about the 100 day mark (this may be incorrect, can't remember). If you are dedicated and do your homework, you can do it, however I would because, as stated, they're boring, hard to keep, etc.

[tahoe61]

Are for the very advance hobbyist. Keeping one for a 100 days is hardly a success. And yes they need a vertical tank at least 150 gal for one speciman. They also need a chiller and they must remain in the dark, otherwise they will go blind ( not that they can only see in the dark ). The Nautilus are slowly becoming endangered and to take them from the deep oceans so someone can have a trophy pet is an impulse buy at the expense of the Nautilus. I imagine most have what you stated is hear say. Please provide valid scientifc information and pics, before you suggest that anyone can keep a Nautilus. L 8 2 Rise
http://www.thecephalopodpage.org/Npompil.php

[Arkayology]

I am not sure why someone would want to keep something that advanced. It really has no business being in a home aquarium.

[romsoccer12]

^ we were saying that about corals 30 years ago.
its gonna die anyway in your LFS so try giving it a better chance and go for it. i dont think they are boring at all! very interesting looks/acts and can be a very cool attraction for some people

[tahoe61]

A Nautilus is not a sps or a lps. While some filefish are now being kept with success most perish in the home aquarium. The point is this particular item is almost endangered, so you are encouraging people to go for it. I hope people of the future will be able to see them in the wild other than public aquariums. There is an extensive list of animals both marine and land animals that can no longer be seen in the wild. They are kept in zoos where they have very limited chances of breeding successfully. Why not just take what we want from the oceans and see if they survive in the average home aquarium. Lets start with leafy sea dragons. I have been diving all over the world and the population of wild sea horses is dismal at best, but lets just keep harvesting them.

[romsoccer12]

i didnt know they were close to being endangered. if a LFS has already bought one, its going to die anyway by torture in there misserable tanks. why not try to save it? i understand by buying it your encouraging the collectors to get more, but where is the line crossed? save an animal now, kill more in the future. kill an animal, save more later on. its a tough choice and i was just stating my opinon. maybe give a word with the LFS saying this is wrong and the only reason im buying it is to try to save it.

[Iwishihadgills]

From what i know is that they come from the deep at night to hunt on the reef. A chiller would be needed and a tall tank with dim lights. They were actually on my lfs wholesale list this week for about $100. I think if you have the time and dedication to get it to eat and give him a comfortable home you should do it. Maybe get two and see if any sparks fly

[ClownNut]

you should try if you have the setup to keep it alive, but dont buy the one your LFS have. if your LFS willing buy this animal without knowing what it takes to keep it alive. you buy it, that will be a sale. well, to them a sale is a sale. they will end up bring in more to see if they can sell more of them. sometime you just have to let the LFS learn their lesson. just like the white/pink/yellow seabae anemone, it's best let it die in LFS's tank so they will learn or at least the smart one will not to order them again.

[Koshmar]

http://www.reefaquariumguide.com/for...ilus-care.html

Never have kept one and don't intend to. The aquarium I do volunteer work for should be getting one in sometime later this year though so I'll have to check out the tank set-up when it's up and running.

[L8 2 RISE]

Originally Posted by cheryl jordan

Are for the very advance hobbyist. Keeping one for a 100 days is hardly a success. And yes they need a vertical tank at least 150 gal for one speciman. They also need a chiller and they must remain in the dark, otherwise they will go blind ( not that they can only see in the dark ). The Nautilus are slowly becoming endangered and to take them from the deep oceans so someone can have a trophy pet is an impulse buy at the expense of the Nautilus. I imagine most have what you stated is hear say. Please provide valid scientifc information and pics, before you suggest that anyone can keep a Nautilus. L 8 2 Rise
http://www.thecephalopodpage.org/Npompil.php

No one knows about their populations in the wild as they live so deep, etc. however, yes, their populations are most likely declining. This however cannot be for sure rested on the aquarist industry. People collect them for their shells which can be and are sold as ornaments, they are caught in nets, etc. I never once said anyone can keep a nautilus.

Originally Posted by L8 2 RISE

If you are dedicated and do your homework, you can do it, however I wouldn't because, as stated, they're boring, hard to keep, etc.

I did, however, say that the thread is getting out of hand and no, they don't need thousand gallon tanks and zoos, etc.

Originally Posted by cheryl jordan

A Nautilus is not a sps or a lps. While some filefish are now being kept with success most perish in the home aquarium. The point is this particular item is almost endangered, so you are encouraging people to go for it. I hope people of the future will be able to see them in the wild other than public aquariums. There is an extensive list of animals both marine and land animals that can no longer be seen in the wild. They are kept in zoos where they have very limited chances of breeding successfully. Why not just take what we want from the oceans and see if they survive in the average home aquarium. Lets start with leafy sea dragons. I have been diving all over the world and the population of wild sea horses is dismal at best, but lets just keep harvesting them.

What's the problem with encouraging someone dedicated and truly interested in these animals to go for them? There's plenty of other cases in this hobby where people do/ encourage the same type of thing with other animals. And as of yet, no one has bred nautilus successfully, not even zoos. Who's to say that the first person to do it won't be a hobbyist? Again, there's plenty of examples of this out there, and without people in this hobby, I can guarantee you there wouldn't be half the captive bred salt water animals or capabilities to breed these salt water animals out there that there are now. It's illegal to collect leafy sea dragons, and if you haven't been watching the hobby, the market for wild caught sea horses has gone WAY down with the amount of captive breeding of them that's been going on. That's not to say that we can't do more, but we're getting better!

Look, I'm not trying to turn this into a flame thread or anything, just trying to bring the thread down to earth.

[Thales]

It does look like Naut populations are declining - at least locally. In places where they used to be collected easily, they are no longer collected easily.

IMO, Nauts are not an animal that should be tried on a lark or whim. They have specialized needs and are not the most interesting animals most of the time, so you really need to be interested in them in particular if you want to keep them. I wish LFS would only special order them instead of trying to stock them for impulse buys.

There is plenty of misinformation out there regarding nauts, both about how hard they are to keep and how easy they are to keep. Please before thinking about Nauts (or any ceph) do some real research. TONMO.com is a good place to start, as is the TFH cephalopod issue from a year or two ago, and Cephalopods: Octopuses and Cuttlefish for the Home Aquarium ( http://www.amazon.com/Cephalopods-Oc.../dp/0793806585 )

[L8 2 RISE]

Originally Posted by Thales

It does look like Naut populations are declining - at least locally. In places where they used to be collected easily, they are no longer collected easily.

IMO, Nauts are not an animal that should be tried on a lark or whim. They have specialized needs and are not the most interesting animals most of the time, so you really need to be interested in them in particular if you want to keep them. I wish LFS would only special order them instead of trying to stock them for impulse buys.

There is plenty of misinformation out there regarding nauts, both about how hard they are to keep and how easy they are to keep. Please before thinking about Nauts (or any ceph) do some real research. TONMO.com is a good place to start, as is the TFH cephalopod issue from a year or two ago, and Cephalopods: Octopuses and Cuttlefish for the Home Aquarium ( http://www.amazon.com/Cephalopods-Oc.../dp/0793806585 )

Couldn't have said it better!

[syrinx]

Its funny for some one to ask for facts to back up claims- then make up facts themselves! Pretty close to endangered animals are protected species- all others are fair game for the trinket trade- live or otherwise. Not that I agree or would keeep them.

[tahoe61]

Originally Posted by syrinx

Its funny for some one to ask for facts to back up claims- then make up facts themselves! Pretty close to endangered animals are protected species- all others are fair game for the trinket trade- live or otherwise. Not that I agree or would keeep them.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/...html?full=true
http://www.aquariumpros.com/articles/badfishlist.shtml

[Thales]

Beware of 'badfish lists'. Many of the animals on such lists are debated and the lists are often based on emotion. A badfish list is not a fact, but opinion of the creator of the list. IMO, the real problem with the animals on these lists is what I alluded to earlier - the animals are imported/collected en masse and sold to people anyone regardless of knowledge of their specialized care. Collect them for special orders, for people who have the time and facility to keep them, and everyone including the animals long term can win.

'Pretty close to endangered animals' are not always protected, and getting them protected is often difficult.

[jfw60]

Originally Posted by L8 2 RISE

No one knows about their populations in the wild as they live so deep, etc. however, yes, their populations are most likely declining. This however cannot be for sure rested on the aquarist industry. People collect them for their shells which can be and are sold as ornaments, they are caught in nets, etc. I never once said anyone can keep a nautilus. I did, however, say that the thread is getting out of hand and no, they don't need thousand gallon tanks and zoos, etc.



What's the problem with encouraging someone dedicated and truly interested in these animals to go for them? There's plenty of other cases in this hobby where people do/ encourage the same type of thing with other animals. And as of yet, no one has bred nautilus successfully, not even zoos. Who's to say that the first person to do it won't be a hobbyist? Again, there's plenty of examples of this out there, and without people in this hobby, I can guarantee you there wouldn't be half the captive bred salt water animals or capabilities to breed these salt water animals out there that there are now. It's illegal to collect leafy sea dragons, and if you haven't been watching the hobby, the market for wild caught sea horses has gone WAY down with the amount of captive breeding of them that's been going on. That's not to say that we can't do more, but we're getting better!

Look, I'm not trying to turn this into a flame thread or anything, just trying to bring the thread down to earth.

It never ceases to amaze me at just how little people understand and appreciate what a precarious state our oceans are in now, so to bring you back to earth what you did not include in the previous commentary was that its not just collection practices for the shell hoarders and the aquarium trade it is the very acidification of the ocean globally that threatens all calciferous organisms coral, clams, snails and yes even the nautilus. I question the language you used in your responses when you stated that fellow hobbyists should "go for it" after all this is isn't dating advice as in "go for it, call the girl"? This sale represents contributing to the demise of an all ready threatened relic of a by gone era. It is unrealistic to speculate that the hobbiest will successfully propagate nautili in the home setting as most individuals whom have propagated less demanding cephalopods over the last several years have had extensive capital dumped with dismal returns. The purpose of this hobby is not just to play Jacque Cousteau in a bowl, it is in fact to carry the message that he conveyed to many of us, that the sea despite it's rugged, infinite exterior is in truth quite fragile.

[michael_cb_125]

The aquariumpros article is way off base.

For example, the list states that the Marginalis Butterfly should be left in the ocean period. Hah, these fish do better in captivity that the copperband.

~Michael

[michael_cb_125]

Some of the fish they have on the leave alone list are some of the most hardy species for our systems.


Chaetodon burgessi
Chaetodon falcula
Chelmon marginalis
Chaetodon mitratus
Centropyge multicolor
Holocanthus clarionensis
Pomacanthus imperator
Miroabrichthys bicolor
Dendrochirus zebra

This is a source that is either grossly outdated or they have much different definitions of hard to keep than most reefers and myself.

[L8 2 RISE]

Ok, really? I just don't understand responses like this. What's the point? So you're super analyzing my post, great job! Are you an English teacher by any chance?

Originally Posted by jfw60

It never ceases to amaze me at just how little people understand and appreciate what a precarious state our oceans are in now, so to bring you back to earth what you did not include in the previous commentary was that its not just collection practices for the shell hoarders and the aquarium trade it is the very acidification of the ocean globally that threatens all calciferous organisms coral, clams, snails and yes even the nautilus.

My point was that just because an animal is desappearing doesn't mean it's due to aquarists, hence the ETC. aka etcetera aka "and other things". Sorry for not spitting out a storry for every little thing that's killing them, but that wasn't the point.

Originally Posted by jfw60

I question the language you used in your responses when you stated that fellow hobbyists should "go for it" after all this is isn't dating advice as in "go for it, call the girl"?

Are you kidding me, does it really matter? Really?

Originally Posted by jfw60

This sale represents contributing to the demise of an all ready threatened relic of a by gone era.

Yes, however see above.

Originally Posted by jfw60

It is unrealistic to speculate that the hobbiest will successfully propagate nautili in the home setting

Why? 50 years ago it was unrealistic to speculate that hobbiests would successfully propagate aptasia (Not that I would know, and possibly an exaggeration, but you get the point).

Originally Posted by jfw60

as most individuals whom have propagated less demanding cephalopods over the last several years have had extensive capital dumped with dismal returns.

This was true a few years ago, however now it really isn't. For cuttlefish, those that are willing to dedicate themselves have very good results. For octopuses, large egged species are now MASS aquacultured with amazing results. We are, however, lacking on the small egged species of octopuses.

Originally Posted by jfw60

The purpose of this hobby is not just to play Jacque Cousteau in a bowl, it is in fact to carry the message that he conveyed to many of us, that the sea despite it's rugged, infinite exterior is in truth quite fragile.

Oh, so now you know the meaning of the hobby and all that it encompasses do you? Thing is, that's a matter of opinion.