Caribbean Biotope Seagrass Tank - Page 24

saltwater sam · 12/09/2014, 11:53 AM

I thought you might like this pic, it's Thallasia hemprichii "sickle seagrass" in Singapore. Check out that huge flower!

Photo credit: Ria Tan

Michael Hoaster · 12/09/2014, 10:01 PM

Awesome! Underwater flowering is wild. Most freshwater plants put their flowers above water. Seagrasses are weird!

karimwassef · 12/09/2014, 11:27 PM

Um. Is it a real flower or does it just look like one?

I know that sounds very ignorant, but the only cure is to ask.

saltwater sam · 12/10/2014, 12:24 AM

It sure is! Impressive, no? I'd love to see someone reproduce this in their tank and induce flowering. I know people have in the past, haven't seen any recently.

saltwater sam · 12/10/2014, 12:30 AM

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=865494

JLynn · 12/10/2014, 07:13 AM

I wonder if the gorgonian is just adjusting to the lower salinity levels. I mean, you probably acclimated it, but with something really important like salinity, surely there are biological adjustments that corals need to make to acclimate themselves, and those kinds of changes tend to take more than a few hours. Just a thought.

Whatever the problem is, I hope it recovers!

Michael Hoaster · 12/10/2014, 10:27 AM

Yep, it's a real, functioning, underwater flower, with waterborne pollen. Pretty rare in the plant kingdom, I think.

Michael Hoaster · 12/10/2014, 10:34 AM

I'd be thrilled to get flowering in my grasses! We'll see! I got most of my freshwater plants to flower. Since reproduction is biologically expensive, the plants need to be in ideal conditions, to be able to 'afford' to flower. Hopefully, one day I'll get there!

Michael Hoaster · 12/10/2014, 10:38 AM

Thanks for the link to Samala's thread, Sam. I have read and reread all her posts, and her article. Her work in this area has been a huge source of inspiration and information for me. I only wish she was still posting…

Michael Hoaster · 12/10/2014, 10:45 AM

Thanks for bringing salinity up, JLynn. I had not thought of that. It still doesn't look happy.

I plan to finally get a water change done today. I'll probably move it once more. It looks like the tissue is getting pulled off by the current, so I'll try to find a little calmer spot for it.

karimwassef · 12/10/2014, 09:53 PM

Who pollinates? Shrimp? Fish? Crabs?

Michael Hoaster · 12/11/2014, 11:31 PM

I did a little research. The pollen forms into threads. They didn't mention any pollinators. It may be that the current takes care of it, in densely packed meadows of separate male and female plants.

I was looking around with the magnifying lense and spotted what looks like a flower at the tip of my tallest manatee grass blade. I'm still looking for an image to confirm if it flowers this way. This was the best pic I could get with the phone.

Here is the gorgonian. Can you also spot the molly and the conch?

Did a water change/algae export. Lots of interesting algae popping up lately. The molly and the snails keep after it. I hope that some it is part of the Atlantic Blue Tang's diet.

JLynn · 12/16/2014, 06:05 AM

That does look like a flower, to me. Congrats! You may be right about the current, but I think they might be able to self-pollinate, too.

A few years ago, on the Nano Reef forums, there was a thread about a bunch of people who had just gotten a hold of some Halophila engelmanni, and after a few months, some of them reported flowering in their seagrasses (with pics, of course). A few days afterwards, their flowers and plants began to die off, and a week or so after that, they had new plants growing in the tank. I can't conclusively say that it was self-pollination - they might have just had male and female flowers in their tanks - but it certainly could have been.

After a quick little google search on seagrasses and self-pollination, I found this: a pdf about European seagrasses. The last paragraph on page 16 seemed to suggest that self-pollination may be possible in Zostera noltii. Of course, that is not the same species you have in your tank, but if it is possible for one species, it may be possible for others, too. The pdf has a lot of information about the biology of seagrasses in the... genuses? genii?... of Zostera, Posidonica, and Cymodocea that is worth checking out just to get a better grasp on seagrass biology in general.

I also found "Seagrasses: Biology, Ecology, and Conservation". You can't read all of it, of course, but there is information on reproduction in the part available for viewing on Google. It says that "most seagrasses" are not bisexual, and therefore cannot self-pollinate; ergo, it is implied that some seagrasses are bisexual, and can therefore self-pollinate. So maybe you will get to see your seagrass reproduce! Or you might, by chance, have acquired specimens of both sexes.

I see a conch, but no molly! The mollies must have really good camouflage.

JLynn · 12/16/2014, 06:19 AM

OH MY GOSH!!!!! I found a PDF upload of the entire book of "Seagrasses: Biology, Ecology, and Conservation"!!! All 648 pages of it!

Let's call it an early Christmas present. Happy reading!

Amphiprion · 12/16/2014, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JLynn

OH MY GOSH!!!!! I found a PDF upload of the entire book of "Seagrasses: Biology, Ecology, and Conservation"!!! All 648 pages of it!

Let's call it an early Christmas present. Happy reading!

WOW! Thank you so much for stumbling upon this, as I've been looking for an affordable copy for a long time! Have much reading to do.

Michael Hoaster · 12/16/2014, 09:11 PM

Thanks, JLynn! I was de-algifying today, and when I was done, the flower was gone. Oh well! Some of the other ones are getting big, so maybe I'll get more flowering. What I'd like to see even more at this point is new daughter plants growing from existing rhizomes.

I'm pretty sure I read that manatee grass exists as separate male and female plants. Now that you've unearthed a full copy of 'The Book', I hope to learn much much more! Nice find!

The molly is a little left of the gorgonian in the pic. A black fish in front of a shadow on the back wall is easy to miss! Speaking of the gorgonian, I'm getting better polyp extension now, so there's hope. I decided not to move it, which, as you know, is not like me. I think it's trying to adjust to 400 watts of 5500K light, which is a far cry from the very blue LEDs it was under in the store. I'll give it more time and see how it goes.

One thing I'm not liking at all is the increase in algae growth. It started soon after I got the barnacle blennies and began feeding the tank. On the plus side, I've gotten several new 'baby' red macros popping up around the tank, including on the fake mangrove root - yay! But cleaning algae gets old fast. I'd really like to not have to feed the tank so much. It may be time to get the fuge going. And, I'm seriously considering getting the caribbean blue tang in there. The nassarius snails are laying eggs all over the tank, so I'm hoping they reach an equilibrium with the algae supply. But they don't seem too interested in the longer, filamentous stuff.

It seems funny to me, seeing guys trying to ID algae. In my opinion, there are only two kinds - the kind you want and the kind you don't want! I'm oversimplifying of course, but rather than spending time researching a nuisance alga, I say just remove as much as you can and do a water change.

Well, I'm off to do some reading! Thanks again!

JLynn · 12/19/2014, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amphiprion

WOW! Thank you so much for stumbling upon this, as I've been looking for an affordable copy for a long time! Have much reading to do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster

Thanks, JLynn! I was de-algifying today, and when I was done, the flower was gone. Oh well! Some of the other ones are getting big, so maybe I'll get more flowering. What I'd like to see even more at this point is new daughter plants growing from existing rhizomes.

I'm pretty sure I read that manatee grass exists as separate male and female plants. Now that you've unearthed a full copy of 'The Book', I hope to learn much much more! Nice find!

You're very welcome! It's a shame that the flower is gone. Hopefully it won't be the last.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster

The molly is a little left of the gorgonian in the pic. A black fish in front of a shadow on the back wall is easy to miss! Speaking of the gorgonian, I'm getting better polyp extension now, so there's hope. I decided not to move it, which, as you know, is not like me. I think it's trying to adjust to 400 watts of 5500K light, which is a far cry from the very blue LEDs it was under in the store. I'll give it more time and see how it goes.

Ah, I see it now! It's good to hear that the gorgonian is getting better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster

One thing I'm not liking at all is the increase in algae growth. It started soon after I got the barnacle blennies and began feeding the tank. On the plus side, I've gotten several new 'baby' red macros popping up around the tank, including on the fake mangrove root - yay! But cleaning algae gets old fast. I'd really like to not have to feed the tank so much. It may be time to get the fuge going. And, I'm seriously considering getting the caribbean blue tang in there. The nassarius snails are laying eggs all over the tank, so I'm hoping they reach an equilibrium with the algae supply. But they don't seem too interested in the longer, filamentous stuff.

New baby macros? How exciting!

I don't see why you shouldn't go ahead and get the tang. Is there any particular reason you have been holding it off thus far?

jimbob321 · 12/19/2014, 11:51 AM

Tang + macro= 0-macro. IMHO.

Michael Hoaster · 12/19/2014, 12:05 PM

I still haven't confirmed it was a flower. It may have been an epiphyte, which seems more likely to me.

I haven't added the tang yet because I want to 'cure' the problem by feeding less, etc. Believe me, I've seriously considered it! And/or an urchin!

At the least, I want to get an understanding of how much food input the tank can support without causing a bloom. Before I added the blennies, I had a low nutrient tank with very little algae. Perfect conditions for the grasses. Now conditions favor microalgae/cyanobacteria-not so good for the grasses. And since their biomass is still rather small, I have less margin for error. And there may be other variables, like a snail death, or something. So, I want to take it slowly.

I really think it would be best to get the royal grammas in there first, so they can settle in to their caves in the wall, without a tang interfering with the process. It could disrupt them, if the tang was territorial about the wall. It's going to be tricky, possibly even disastrous, attempting a large harem of these fish. So I want to only introduce one variable at a time.

Right now, the plan is to introduce the grammas, the tang, and then the schooling chromises. First, I want to get the fuge going, so I can feed less.

JLynn · 12/19/2014, 09:12 PM

Good point.

What is left to do to get the fuge started up? You already have the macros in there.

Michael Hoaster · 12/19/2014, 11:29 PM

I just need to get it into position and set it up. I should be able to get it going this weekend. I think I have everything I need, except the pods to populate it.

Michael Hoaster · 12/28/2014, 10:27 PM

I'm reconsidering the refugium (again!). I really want to keep everything as simple as possible. Given the type of tank I have, I should be able to maintain a population of pods 'n stuff in the DT, if I make an effort to. The key is to provide in-tank refuge and food.

I revisited my canister filter to see if I could fix it. No dice. But I can replace some parts, which might do the trick.

I've done water changes two weekends in a row to combat the algae. I've also gotten my fish feedings under control, so I hope to see improvement. I even bought a tuxedo urchin-quite the algae-eater!

I'm thinking of adding some live sand, to get more sand-specific detrivore diversity. I think I need to reexamine the bottom of the food web in my tank, to see if I can bring things into better balance. If I have a more diverse cast of characters to process the food input, algae should subside.

karimwassef · 12/29/2014, 02:17 AM

Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler - Albert Einstein

Michael Hoaster · 12/29/2014, 10:16 AM

Word. (said the middle-aged white guy)

I'm trying to stay focused on the fundamentals. If I keep things as simple as possible, during these formative months, I should gain an understanding of the natural processes at work, and their capacities.

So, I have this big, plastic box that I 'pollute' everyday with fish food. What combination of organisms can I employ to process the fish food, so that I have a big, plastic box, that's fun to look at?

Right now, I lack the right combination of organisms, and my primary producers, the seagrasses, aren't up to full capacity yet. So algae and cyanobacteria are favored. Hopefully, I can tip the balance in favor of the grasses.

One way or another, Mother Nature finds equilibrium. If I'm lucky, she will do it in a way that's pleasing to the eye…

sam.basye · 12/29/2014, 12:02 PM

"Word. (said the middle-age white guy)" - hahaha

I think we all strive for that equilibrium. I for one have not found it yet - although, all my algae problems seem to disappear with no light.... but what fun is a dark plastic box!? lol

Sometimes you just gotta scrape everyday and enjoy what you have that isn't dead.

It makes me feel better about myself that you're struggling like I am - sorry :P

When you talk about the seagrasses capacity, where do you base this info (I assume lots of research and reading) and how will you know when it is at full capacity? I ask because when I think about sea grass in the wild. I think: Looking from the top floor of a hotel out over the ocean - you can see it transition from sand to dark patches and full dark areas of thick grasses through the water.
When snorkeling, I have seen the thick, thick grass and haven't ever really seen it where it is sparsely planted.

With all that in mind, the jungle I'm anticipating for your tank could be the solution to less algae and working at full capacity. This comes strictly from observations at the beach - no reading or scientific knowledge. lol

I could be completely wrong - but I like to think I am an expert

How is the wall looking??

12/09/2014, 11:53 AM	#576
saltwater sam Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Grand Forks, North Dakota Posts: 553	I thought you might like this pic, it's Thallasia hemprichii "sickle seagrass" in Singapore. Check out that huge flower! Photo credit: Ria Tan __________________ It's not too much to brag about if your fish can eat someone else's fish, but if your fish can eat somebody's dog, now thats an accomplishment! Current Tank Info: 40 gallon SW mangrove/macro planted tank

12/09/2014, 10:01 PM	#577
Michael Hoaster Registered Seaweedist Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 5,807	Awesome! Underwater flowering is wild. Most freshwater plants put their flowers above water. Seagrasses are weird! __________________ As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance, our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018

12/10/2014, 12:24 AM	#579
saltwater sam Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Grand Forks, North Dakota Posts: 553	It sure is! Impressive, no? I'd love to see someone reproduce this in their tank and induce flowering. I know people have in the past, haven't seen any recently. __________________ It's not too much to brag about if your fish can eat someone else's fish, but if your fish can eat somebody's dog, now thats an accomplishment! Current Tank Info: 40 gallon SW mangrove/macro planted tank

12/10/2014, 12:30 AM	#580
saltwater sam Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Grand Forks, North Dakota Posts: 553	http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=865494 __________________ It's not too much to brag about if your fish can eat someone else's fish, but if your fish can eat somebody's dog, now thats an accomplishment! Current Tank Info: 40 gallon SW mangrove/macro planted tank

12/10/2014, 10:27 AM	#582
Michael Hoaster Registered Seaweedist Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 5,807	Yep, it's a real, functioning, underwater flower, with waterborne pollen. Pretty rare in the plant kingdom, I think. __________________ As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance, our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018

12/09/2014, 11:27 PM	#578
karimwassef Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 11,033	Um. Is it a real flower or does it just look like one? I know that sounds very ignorant, but the only cure is to ask.

12/10/2014, 07:13 AM	#581
JLynn Registered Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Dallas, Texas Posts: 291	I wonder if the gorgonian is just adjusting to the lower salinity levels. I mean, you probably acclimated it, but with something really important like salinity, surely there are biological adjustments that corals need to make to acclimate themselves, and those kinds of changes tend to take more than a few hours. Just a thought. Whatever the problem is, I hope it recovers!

12/10/2014, 10:34 AM	#583
Michael Hoaster Registered Seaweedist Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 5,807	I'd be thrilled to get flowering in my grasses! We'll see! I got most of my freshwater plants to flower. Since reproduction is biologically expensive, the plants need to be in ideal conditions, to be able to 'afford' to flower. Hopefully, one day I'll get there! __________________ As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance, our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018

12/10/2014, 10:38 AM	#584
Michael Hoaster Registered Seaweedist Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 5,807	Thanks for the link to Samala's thread, Sam. I have read and reread all her posts, and her article. Her work in this area has been a huge source of inspiration and information for me. I only wish she was still posting… __________________ As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance, our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018

12/10/2014, 10:45 AM	#585
Michael Hoaster Registered Seaweedist Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 5,807	Thanks for bringing salinity up, JLynn. I had not thought of that. It still doesn't look happy. I plan to finally get a water change done today. I'll probably move it once more. It looks like the tissue is getting pulled off by the current, so I'll try to find a little calmer spot for it. __________________ As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance, our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018

12/10/2014, 09:53 PM	#586
karimwassef Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 11,033	Who pollinates? Shrimp? Fish? Crabs?

12/11/2014, 11:31 PM	#587
Michael Hoaster Registered Seaweedist Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 5,807	I did a little research. The pollen forms into threads. They didn't mention any pollinators. It may be that the current takes care of it, in densely packed meadows of separate male and female plants. I was looking around with the magnifying lense and spotted what looks like a flower at the tip of my tallest manatee grass blade. I'm still looking for an image to confirm if it flowers this way. This was the best pic I could get with the phone. Here is the gorgonian. Can you also spot the molly and the conch? Did a water change/algae export. Lots of interesting algae popping up lately. The molly and the snails keep after it. I hope that some it is part of the Atlantic Blue Tang's diet. __________________ As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance, our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018

12/16/2014, 06:05 AM	#588
JLynn Registered Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Dallas, Texas Posts: 291	That does look like a flower, to me. Congrats! You may be right about the current, but I think they might be able to self-pollinate, too. A few years ago, on the Nano Reef forums, there was a thread about a bunch of people who had just gotten a hold of some Halophila engelmanni, and after a few months, some of them reported flowering in their seagrasses (with pics, of course). A few days afterwards, their flowers and plants began to die off, and a week or so after that, they had new plants growing in the tank. I can't conclusively say that it was self-pollination - they might have just had male and female flowers in their tanks - but it certainly could have been. After a quick little google search on seagrasses and self-pollination, I found this: a pdf about European seagrasses. The last paragraph on page 16 seemed to suggest that self-pollination may be possible in Zostera noltii. Of course, that is not the same species you have in your tank, but if it is possible for one species, it may be possible for others, too. The pdf has a lot of information about the biology of seagrasses in the... genuses? genii?... of Zostera, Posidonica, and Cymodocea that is worth checking out just to get a better grasp on seagrass biology in general. I also found "Seagrasses: Biology, Ecology, and Conservation". You can't read all of it, of course, but there is information on reproduction in the part available for viewing on Google. It says that "most seagrasses" are not bisexual, and therefore cannot self-pollinate; ergo, it is implied that some seagrasses are bisexual, and can therefore self-pollinate. So maybe you will get to see your seagrass reproduce! Or you might, by chance, have acquired specimens of both sexes. I see a conch, but no molly! The mollies must have really good camouflage. Last edited by JLynn; 12/16/2014 at 06:13 AM.

12/16/2014, 06:19 AM	#589
JLynn Registered Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Dallas, Texas Posts: 291	OH MY GOSH!!!!! I found a PDF upload of the entire book of "Seagrasses: Biology, Ecology, and Conservation"!!! All 648 pages of it! Let's call it an early Christmas present. Happy reading!

12/16/2014, 09:11 PM	#591
Michael Hoaster Registered Seaweedist Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 5,807	Thanks, JLynn! I was de-algifying today, and when I was done, the flower was gone. Oh well! Some of the other ones are getting big, so maybe I'll get more flowering. What I'd like to see even more at this point is new daughter plants growing from existing rhizomes. I'm pretty sure I read that manatee grass exists as separate male and female plants. Now that you've unearthed a full copy of 'The Book', I hope to learn much much more! Nice find! The molly is a little left of the gorgonian in the pic. A black fish in front of a shadow on the back wall is easy to miss! Speaking of the gorgonian, I'm getting better polyp extension now, so there's hope. I decided not to move it, which, as you know, is not like me. I think it's trying to adjust to 400 watts of 5500K light, which is a far cry from the very blue LEDs it was under in the store. I'll give it more time and see how it goes. One thing I'm not liking at all is the increase in algae growth. It started soon after I got the barnacle blennies and began feeding the tank. On the plus side, I've gotten several new 'baby' red macros popping up around the tank, including on the fake mangrove root - yay! But cleaning algae gets old fast. I'd really like to not have to feed the tank so much. It may be time to get the fuge going. And, I'm seriously considering getting the caribbean blue tang in there. The nassarius snails are laying eggs all over the tank, so I'm hoping they reach an equilibrium with the algae supply. But they don't seem too interested in the longer, filamentous stuff. It seems funny to me, seeing guys trying to ID algae. In my opinion, there are only two kinds - the kind you want and the kind you don't want! I'm oversimplifying of course, but rather than spending time researching a nuisance alga, I say just remove as much as you can and do a water change. Well, I'm off to do some reading! Thanks again! __________________ As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance, our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018

12/19/2014, 11:51 AM	#593
jimbob321 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: space coast of fla. Posts: 96	Tang + macro= 0-macro. IMHO.

12/19/2014, 12:05 PM	#594
Michael Hoaster Registered Seaweedist Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 5,807	I still haven't confirmed it was a flower. It may have been an epiphyte, which seems more likely to me. I haven't added the tang yet because I want to 'cure' the problem by feeding less, etc. Believe me, I've seriously considered it! And/or an urchin! At the least, I want to get an understanding of how much food input the tank can support without causing a bloom. Before I added the blennies, I had a low nutrient tank with very little algae. Perfect conditions for the grasses. Now conditions favor microalgae/cyanobacteria-not so good for the grasses. And since their biomass is still rather small, I have less margin for error. And there may be other variables, like a snail death, or something. So, I want to take it slowly. I really think it would be best to get the royal grammas in there first, so they can settle in to their caves in the wall, without a tang interfering with the process. It could disrupt them, if the tang was territorial about the wall. It's going to be tricky, possibly even disastrous, attempting a large harem of these fish. So I want to only introduce one variable at a time. Right now, the plan is to introduce the grammas, the tang, and then the schooling chromises. First, I want to get the fuge going, so I can feed less. __________________ As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance, our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018

12/19/2014, 09:12 PM	#595
JLynn Registered Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Dallas, Texas Posts: 291	Good point. What is left to do to get the fuge started up? You already have the macros in there.

12/19/2014, 11:29 PM	#596
Michael Hoaster Registered Seaweedist Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 5,807	I just need to get it into position and set it up. I should be able to get it going this weekend. I think I have everything I need, except the pods to populate it. __________________ As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance, our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018

12/28/2014, 10:27 PM	#597
Michael Hoaster Registered Seaweedist Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 5,807	I'm reconsidering the refugium (again!). I really want to keep everything as simple as possible. Given the type of tank I have, I should be able to maintain a population of pods 'n stuff in the DT, if I make an effort to. The key is to provide in-tank refuge and food. I revisited my canister filter to see if I could fix it. No dice. But I can replace some parts, which might do the trick. I've done water changes two weekends in a row to combat the algae. I've also gotten my fish feedings under control, so I hope to see improvement. I even bought a tuxedo urchin-quite the algae-eater! I'm thinking of adding some live sand, to get more sand-specific detrivore diversity. I think I need to reexamine the bottom of the food web in my tank, to see if I can bring things into better balance. If I have a more diverse cast of characters to process the food input, algae should subside. __________________ As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance, our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018

12/29/2014, 02:17 AM	#598
karimwassef Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 11,033	Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler - Albert Einstein

12/29/2014, 10:16 AM	#599
Michael Hoaster Registered Seaweedist Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 5,807	Word. (said the middle-aged white guy) I'm trying to stay focused on the fundamentals. If I keep things as simple as possible, during these formative months, I should gain an understanding of the natural processes at work, and their capacities. So, I have this big, plastic box that I 'pollute' everyday with fish food. What combination of organisms can I employ to process the fish food, so that I have a big, plastic box, that's fun to look at? Right now, I lack the right combination of organisms, and my primary producers, the seagrasses, aren't up to full capacity yet. So algae and cyanobacteria are favored. Hopefully, I can tip the balance in favor of the grasses. One way or another, Mother Nature finds equilibrium. If I'm lucky, she will do it in a way that's pleasing to the eye… __________________ As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance, our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018

12/29/2014, 12:02 PM	#600
sam.basye Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Lynchburg, VA Posts: 1,227	"Word. (said the middle-age white guy)" - hahaha I think we all strive for that equilibrium. I for one have not found it yet - although, all my algae problems seem to disappear with no light.... but what fun is a dark plastic box!? lol Sometimes you just gotta scrape everyday and enjoy what you have that isn't dead. It makes me feel better about myself that you're struggling like I am - sorry :P When you talk about the seagrasses capacity, where do you base this info (I assume lots of research and reading) and how will you know when it is at full capacity? I ask because when I think about sea grass in the wild. I think: Looking from the top floor of a hotel out over the ocean - you can see it transition from sand to dark patches and full dark areas of thick grasses through the water. When snorkeling, I have seen the thick, thick grass and haven't ever really seen it where it is sparsely planted. With all that in mind, the jungle I'm anticipating for your tank could be the solution to less algae and working at full capacity. This comes strictly from observations at the beach - no reading or scientific knowledge. lol I could be completely wrong - but I like to think I am an expert How is the wall looking??