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05/05/2018, 05:04 PM | #9676 |
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Pretty much what u are saying is correct. If the valve is fully open then u would have to tune the return pump to the drain. It is unlikely that would happen & if it is draining the overflow with the return pump up all the way then the return pump can’t keep up. It wouldn’t surprise me if u had to pump 2000 gph for it to keep up with hour setup. Even if u could it would seem like it would be inconsistent.
That is one of the many positives about a beananimal drain. With your existing plumbing u can run anywhere from 200 gph to 2000 gph & the system work correctly. It makes it so much easier to tune the drain to the pump rather then the other way around |
05/06/2018, 11:30 AM | #9677 | |
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Really glad I went with this. Thanks again.
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05/06/2018, 12:13 PM | #9678 |
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Also, keep in mind that, depending on the drop, even a 1" siphon moves a ton of water. I forget the exact number, but it exceeds all but the very largest of pumps. My PW200 nets me about 1,350 which necessitates closing the gate valve by about 40%.
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Simon Got back into the hobby ..... planned to keep it simple ..... yeah, right ..... clearly I need a new plan! Pet peeve: anemones host clowns; clowns do not host anemones! Current Tank Info: 450 Reef; 120 refugium; 60 Frag Tank, 30 Introduction tank; multiple QTs |
05/21/2018, 10:40 AM | #9679 |
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Here's a question that I can't seem to find a definite answer on:
Are the downward turned elbows of the "full siphon" and "open channel" even with each other? Or does the "open channel" sit higher? And if so how much higher? Thanks You
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Jimmy MASVC President Dishes are done man! Current Tank Info: 300 in progress |
05/21/2018, 07:30 PM | #9680 |
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They can be even but being u have a exterior box I would place the open channel atleast 1/2” to 1” higher then the syphon. With them the same hieght u can have a issue with the syphon purging it’s air. What happens is the open channel takes on water before the water builds up enough to purge the air from the syphon, making it take longer to purge if it does at all. So by placing the open channel higher it eliminates the possibility of that issue.
When I have a interior box & the 90’s go straight into the bulkhead in the back of the tank then I drill the holes the same height & the open channel & syphon are even. With a exterior box where the bulkhead is in the bottom I always place the open channel higher then the syphon |
05/21/2018, 11:16 PM | #9681 | |
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Thanks LSU, You're saving me a lot of headaches!!!
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Jimmy MASVC President Dishes are done man! Current Tank Info: 300 in progress |
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05/29/2018, 02:56 PM | #9682 |
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Can someone point me to the discussion about the height of the various drains relative to either the bottom or the tank, height of the weir, and/or height of the tank?
Alternately, here's my thoughts: 1. Siphon pipe: the height of the siphon drain doesn't really matter. You can tune the water level in the overflow box using a gate valve on the siphon line so the water level in the overflow box is just below the bottom of the teeth of the weir to minimize the height that the water falls, and therefore minimize the noise of the falling water. But really the gate valve is just to match the siphon drain to the flow rate of your return pump. Then you can manually add or subtract water to the overflow box to get it to the height where there is just a trickle in Emergency drain #1. 2. Emergency drain pipe #1 (Durso): Set the height of the first emergency drain (elbow down, with the airline, aka a durso) so that the bottom of the inside of the upside down U formed by the elbow pointing down (aka the height at which water begines to flow into this drain) is just below the height of the bottom of the teeth of the weir. This, combined with the water height set by the siphon gate valve, ensures that only a trickle of water flows down this emergency drain. Airline is optional but recommended to create a true Durso that will operate in non-siphon mode. Note that this drain will also function in siphon mode whenever the water level reaches the height of the airline input. Ideally, this should occur before Emergency drain #2 kicks in if you set the height of Emergency drain #2 as described below. 3. Emergency drain pipe #2 (the open pipe): set this higher than the Emergency drain pipe #1. Ideally higher than the top of the inside of the upside down U in Emergency drain pipe #1 (or the height of the air line input to Emergency drain #1 if using an airline) so as to allow Emergency drain pipe #1 to enter full siphon mode before Emergency drain pipe #2 kicks in. ALSO, the height of this open channel should be at least 1/2 to 1 inch below the height of the top of your tank!!! Lower is better. Otherwise you may not get the flow you need in Emergency drain #2 to handle the flow from your return pump if the siphon and emergency drain #1 both fail. It may be a good idea to upsize this drain pipe compared to the size of the siphon drain and Emergency drain #1 because this pipe, when used, will rarely be in siphon mode. So, for example, if my siphon drain is 1 inch pipe, I set my Emergency drain #1 as 1 inch pipe and Emergency drain #2 as 1.5 inch pipe. So ideally there is a relationship between the heights of Emergency drain #1, Emergency drain #2, the height of the teeth in the weir, and the total height of the tank. I welcome any comments or (constructive) criticism of the above; we're all trying to design the safest, quietest solution possible.
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Some days it's not even worth chewing through the restraints. Current Tank Info: 250g starphire: 72x28x30, BeanAnimal drain with an oversized non-durso emergency drain, 4 inch DSB, 3x Reefbreeders Value LED fixtures, SWC/MSX 300A skimmer, Geo kalk reactor, 3 Vortechs w/bb, carbon reactor, and a RKL Last edited by Hal; 05/29/2018 at 04:19 PM. |
05/29/2018, 03:03 PM | #9683 | |
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Intelligence is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad Current Tank Info: 75g mixed reef |
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05/29/2018, 04:13 PM | #9684 | |
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Quote:
I also agree that one of the non-siphon drains should set the water level in the overflow box. So are Emergency drain #1 and #2 both set at the same height? Meaning that both will have a trickle of water during "normal" operation? Based on the directions of the elbows, it looks to me like the Durso kicks in (starts to drain water in non-siphon mode) before the non-Durso sees any water. Whether the non-Durso kicks in before the Durso goes into siphon mode is still a question to me.
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Some days it's not even worth chewing through the restraints. Current Tank Info: 250g starphire: 72x28x30, BeanAnimal drain with an oversized non-durso emergency drain, 4 inch DSB, 3x Reefbreeders Value LED fixtures, SWC/MSX 300A skimmer, Geo kalk reactor, 3 Vortechs w/bb, carbon reactor, and a RKL Last edited by Hal; 05/29/2018 at 04:27 PM. |
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05/29/2018, 04:19 PM | #9685 | |
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Intelligence is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad Current Tank Info: 75g mixed reef |
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05/29/2018, 04:28 PM | #9686 |
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I agree with Doug on everything except the hieght of the airline. It is best to have the end of the airline just above the emergency, not below it. So the open channel making a syphon is really supposed to be the last line of defense, Incase both the syphon & emergency get clogged. On some setups it doesn’t really matter, especially with exterior boxes because of the height differences between the standpipes. On other setups it can cause issues on startup. What can happen is the airline gets covered & empties the overflow box before there is enough pressure to purge the air from the syphon. It is better if the emergency takes a little water on startup because it won’t empty the overflow box & gives the syphon a chance to purge its air. Like I said, it isn’t a issue on all setups but it can be on others.
I think we tend to overthink things at times. Like Doug mentioned, the valve on the syphon is what sets the water level inside of the box but it is actually the open channel that determines the water level. On ghost type overflows with the pass thru holes & exterior box u usually want the water level 1/4 to halfway on the pass thru holes. There isn’t a point in being any higher & if u get it lower then the pass thru holes the waterfall entering the box makes noise. So set the open channel 1/4 to halfway up on the pass thru holes & set the emergency 1” to 1.5” above that as long as it is still 1” to 1.5” below the top of the box. It’s really pretty simple Last edited by Lsufan; 05/29/2018 at 04:36 PM. |
05/29/2018, 04:33 PM | #9687 | |
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Intelligence is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad Current Tank Info: 75g mixed reef |
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06/05/2018, 08:35 AM | #9688 |
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I saw beans original design and it looks like all bulkheads were drilled at the same height. Now I see other people putting the full siphon lower than the open channel. They are drilling my tank now with the picture below. Is this going to work with the bulkheads being at the same height?
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06/05/2018, 08:47 AM | #9689 |
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You can simply turn the elbow down on the siphon as opposed to up so that the opening is lower and it is more likely 2 start prior to the open channel taking in water
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Intelligence is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad Current Tank Info: 75g mixed reef |
06/05/2018, 05:04 PM | #9690 |
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Drilling them the same hieght is fine as long as u don’t do other things in the plumbing that make it harder for the syphon tonpurge its air. So don’t place a bunch of 90’s or have horizontal runs in the plumbing & don’t submerge the end of the drain to far into the sump & u will be fine.
The reason for drilling the open channel 1/2” or so above the syphon is so the open channel doesn’t take a bunch of water before there’s enough pressure to purge the air from the syphon. It won’t be a issue if it’s plumbed how bean designed. U can drill them the same hieght & It won’t be a issue if u plumb it correctly. If u have no choice & have to use a few 90’s or u have to run a section horizontal then it may be a good idea to drill the open channel & emergency 1/2” or so above the syphon. Something to consider on your hole spacing is where they will be entering the sump. U want as straight of a shot as possible to the sump. The emergency can enter the sump anywhere so it doesn’t really matter, but depending how your sump will be laid out u may consider drilling the first hole more to the end of the box & having the open channel & syphon closer together then 135mm. So drill the first hole 67mm from the edge of the tank to center of the hole, then 90mm from center of the first hole to center of the second. Doing it that way the syphon & open channel would be as far to the end of the overflow box as possible & gives u the straightest shot to the sump if u are using a conventional sump. U want to do everything possible where the only fittings u use in each drain line is 2- 45’s. Last edited by Lsufan; 06/05/2018 at 05:27 PM. |
06/10/2018, 09:07 AM | #9691 |
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Water tested and bean animal working like a dream. Starts back up after power outage.
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06/10/2018, 09:29 PM | #9692 |
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That may just be a picture from before u where complete but make sure u add the airline to the open channel. It is a very important piece to the overall drain setup
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06/10/2018, 10:08 PM | #9693 | |
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Right! I did add the airline after I put water in it. I had to have the airline right at the emergency overflow level otherwise it would drain the overflow before the full siphon had a chance to kick in. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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06/10/2018, 10:21 PM | #9694 |
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I thought that pic may have been from before u where finished. It didn’t look like it was in its permanent place yet. Yes,that is why the airline is supposed to be just above the emergency. Its ok if the emergency takes a little water on startup it won’t drain the box, so it gives the syphon a chance to purge the air. If the airline is below the emergency then the open channel will syphon & empty the box before the pressure is enough to purge the air from the syphon.
Last edited by Lsufan; 06/10/2018 at 10:27 PM. |
06/10/2018, 10:23 PM | #9695 | |
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I am so happy with this overflow! It’s ridiculously quiet Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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06/10/2018, 10:30 PM | #9696 |
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Great Work! and I really appreciate it. Keep up the good work and let us see more of your work.
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06/12/2018, 09:33 AM | #9697 |
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Can anyone direct me to a chart/ calculator for siphon rates of pipe/ bulkhead sizes?
I know I saw one in this thread, but I don't really want to have to search through all the pages Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
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Intelligence is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad Current Tank Info: 75g mixed reef |
06/14/2018, 04:18 AM | #9698 |
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Quick question.
First of many most likely as I'm about to place an order for a 300+ us Gall tank and I want to get it right. How much space do I need behind the tank for the plumbing if using an internal overflow box? I'm thinking 6" but may get away with less if I place the valve(s) down at the sump end of the plumbing. This will be my first ever set up for marine although we intend to use it as a tropical planted for a number of years first. |
06/14/2018, 04:43 AM | #9699 | |
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06/14/2018, 04:48 AM | #9700 |
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Thanks mcgyvr.
Anyone got a page number for the parts list? I ran a search and only came up with people talking about the parts list lol? Also at 314 us gallons should I be going bigger than 1"? |
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beananimal, plumbing |
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