Typhoon Controller with MW HLG-185-42B - Page 2

GUILLO1 · 02/09/2012, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2Quills

Thanks.

I'd still be interested to know if the O.P.'s controller is doing the same thing. He said he was getting 10v but didn't really specify is he was getting 0-10v or just 5-10v like I am. Considering that we're going through this issue at the very same time makes me wonder.

if I connect the multimeter to the 10v pins I get 0-10v and if I connect it to the 5v pin I get 0-5v.

Now I wonder if my lights are really running from 0 to 100% or from 0 to 50% since I am using the 5v pins. I connected all 3 drivers to the controller and the multimeter to the 4th channel. The reading on the multi meter goes from 0 to 4.94. Anyone know if my light are running at full power?

der_wille_zur_macht · 02/09/2012, 02:26 PM

Can you measure current on the output side?

Or, since they go to full on when floating, compare the intensity at "full on" with 5v to the intensity when not connected?

brassmonkyballs · 02/09/2012, 05:12 PM

Your lights are only running to 50% power. You need a full 10v.....it's no different than using an external 10v supply....you need 10v PWM.

2Quills · 02/09/2012, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by der_wille_zur_macht

With power off, check for continuity (better yet, resistance) between the GND side of the 10v header and pretty much any other trace on the board (10v, 5v, the signals to the transistors, etc). The GND side of the 10v header should be completely isolated.

Hopefully I'm doing this right.

I checked for continuity and measured resistance on the 10v headers (I think) and followed the traces to the next solder point on the bottom of the board that lead to the transistors (I guess). I do indeed get continuity and virtually no resistance.

These are were the 10v ground pins lead to on the top side of the board. You said the ground side of the header should be isolated so I don't know if this is good or bad. The top pins are the ground pins, yes? And bottom pins the + ?

I'm getting a little aggrivated because the 3rd controller arrived today doing the exact same thing. I didn't even hook it up to my drivers because I know what it's going to do (nothing).

I simply took a 2pin connecter, stripped the ends of the red and black wire and clamped my insulated alligator clip leads on my meter to them. Again, this is what I see. So I don't know if I'm doing something wrong or if this is normal for the controller (I don't believe it is). Or if the drivers and controller simply aren't compatible with one another at this time. The voltage floats between about 4.5v - 5.5 at times.

I hope I'm not hijacking this thread. But at this point I'm hoping we can knock out two birds with one stone here instead of starting a whole other thread.

GUILLO1 · 02/09/2012, 07:23 PM

your not hijacking nothing..... seems like were in the same boat so post away. All I can think of is that your meter may be faulty. Can you try a different multimeter?

brassmonkyballs · 02/09/2012, 07:31 PM

not knowing anything about the Typhon I would bet the 10V reference is mucking with it. Here's a long shot...its your adapter putting out enough power to the Typhon?

2Quills · 02/09/2012, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GUILLO1

your not hijacking nothing..... seems like were in the same boat so post away. All I can think of is that your meter may be faulty. Can you try a different multimeter?

Thanks.

Pretty sure the meter is not faulty. I use it at work every day. It only seems to NOT work when I put it on the 10v channels on this controller. Everything in regards to voltage readings on the 5v channels are exactly what I'd expect them to be when ramping them up and down. I can watch the voltage rise and drop from 0-5v no problem.

I've tested voltage across the resistors in all my strings and the voltage/amp readings on those match up exactly to what I'm seeing in relation to voltage coming out of the controller on the 5v channels.

When I have my drivers on the 10v channels I get a 100% maximum current output of my drivers pushing through my strings. I have tested and confirmed this more than a few times already. Not a big deal for testing purposes since I've designed the leds to run just under thier maximum output when the drivers are wide open.

2Quills · 02/09/2012, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brassmonkyballs

not knowing anything about the Typhon I would bet the 10V reference is mucking with it. Here's a long shot...its your adapter putting out enough power to the Typhon?

The place where I got it from offers it with a 12v d.c. adapter. It's putting out 12.3 volts. Is the 12v supply needed? I kind of half figured a 10v supply would do the trick.

brassmonkyballs · 02/09/2012, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2Quills

The place where I got it from offers it with a 12v d.c. adapter. It's putting out 12.3 volts. Is the 12v supply needed? I kind of half figured a 10v supply would do the trick.

no it needs more than 10V to run itself and put out the 10V

GUILLO1 · 02/09/2012, 08:35 PM

so LED's are only running 50% on the 5v channel. I also noticed that if I disconnect the controller drivers do not run at 100%, they run less than 50% so I guess maybe 25%. Man what a bummer and what ticks me off is that I called BoostLed a month ago and I specifically asked if the typhoon worked with the HLG-185 and John told me that it did.

Anyone have any suggestions on what I can try to make it work?

2Quills · 02/09/2012, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GUILLO1

so LED's are only running 50% on the 5v channel. I also noticed that if I disconnect the controller drivers do not run at 100%, they run less than 50% so I guess maybe 25%. Man what a bummer and what ticks me off is that I called BoostLed a month ago and I specifically asked if the typhoon worked with the HLG-185 and John told me that it did.

Anyone have any suggestions on what I can try to make it work?

What happens for me is that If I have my drivers hooked up to the controller (10v pins) I get 100%. If I disconnect the dimming wires from the controller I get 100%. If I leave the dimming wires on the controller and cut power to the power supply for the controller it seems like I get nearly 0 volts but my leds still glow. Almost no detectable voltage across my resistors.

brassmonkyballs · 02/09/2012, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GUILLO1

so LED's are only running 50% on the 5v channel. I also noticed that if I disconnect the controller drivers do not run at 100%, they run less than 50% so I guess maybe 25%. Man what a bummer and what ticks me off is that I called BoostLed a month ago and I specifically asked if the typhoon worked with the HLG-185 and John told me that it did.

Anyone have any suggestions on what I can try to make it work?

when you say you disconnected the controller did you pull the dimming wires so they are open circuit? or just unplug the driver?

Having used about a half dozen HLGs I can confirm they absolutely run full power with open circuit...ie the dimmer wires are connected to nothing. The spec sheet confirms this behavior as well. If it doesn't run 100% open circuit then the driver is bad. However, you did say you hooked up a 100k ohm pot and it worked fine......

Sorry I can't help with that controller though...like I said I used that other one.

der_wille_zur_macht · 02/10/2012, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2Quills

Hopefully I'm doing this right.

I checked for continuity and measured resistance on the 10v headers (I think) and followed the traces to the next solder point on the bottom of the board that lead to the transistors (I guess). I do indeed get continuity and virtually no resistance.

Ok, sorry, I think I explained it too quickly. You want to put one test lead on the ground side of one of the 10v header pins and then touch the other lead around to different spots on the board (+10v side of the 10v reg, Vin, +5v side of the 5v reg). The ground side of that header should not show continuity anywhere EXCEPT where you tested it, i.e. the collector pin on the transistor.

Quote:

I'm getting a little aggrivated because the 3rd controller arrived today doing the exact same thing. I didn't even hook it up to my drivers because I know what it's going to do (nothing).

I simply took a 2pin connecter, stripped the ends of the red and black wire and clamped my insulated alligator clip leads on my meter to them. Again, this is what I see. So I don't know if I'm doing something wrong or if this is normal for the controller (I don't believe it is). Or if the drivers and controller simply aren't compatible with one another at this time. The voltage floats between about 4.5v - 5.5 at times.

I am sure your meter is OK, but do you have another kicking around to test with? The very "issue" with the ground side floating when off could potentially throw off a meter as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2Quills

The place where I got it from offers it with a 12v d.c. adapter. It's putting out 12.3 volts. Is the 12v supply needed? I kind of half figured a 10v supply would do the trick.

Take a look at the silkscreen right there on the board.

It should function with anything between 10.5v and 18v DC for input power.

I'm happy to continue helping troubleshoot this or develop fixes but since you guys both bought the drivers and controllers off the shelf from a vendor I'd be pushing the vendor hard for support if I were in your shoes.

2Quills · 02/10/2012, 07:52 AM

DWZM I only get continuity on the solder points that you see color coded when i follow the traces for those specific headers. No where else.

The vendor seems more than willing to help get to the bottom of this but im trying to arm myself with as much info as possible. He said he tested this one before sending it and confirmed it was working. I need to ask how he tested it. Did he check voltage or simply throw it on an ELN. At this point im doubting the compatibility of my combination.

2Quills · 02/10/2012, 08:11 AM

Oh and yes. I do have a couple of cheaper multi meters kicking around the house and i did compare readings last weekend. The song remains the same.

The voltage only floats like that between 4-5 when i have the controller under 10%. Anything above that and i get a pretty stable reading. Figured that was normal.

der_wille_zur_macht · 02/10/2012, 08:14 AM

Ok then, it might not be a fault on the board, and I'm starting to think it's your meter. Not that your meter is "wrong" or broken, by any means. Again, since the 10v header floats the ground pin when it should be at a low state, all bets are off when it comes to behavior with any device or measurement.

I took this approach in the design because it seemed to work just fine with the drivers we were all using at the time, but it seems clear to me now that it's not working with the drivers you guys have in-hand, for whatever reason. I've been meaning to "fix" this in a future version of the hardware, if one or both of you are interested in being a beta tester lemme know. I would just have to warn you that with other stuff going on, my development cycle is probably 6 or 8 months out. Though I do have a few ideas for some quick fixes...

der_wille_zur_macht · 02/10/2012, 08:18 AM

Posting at the same time. Oh well. I don't think we need to get hung up on the multimeter reading.

Just to make sure I understand fully - what size pot are you guys using to manually dim? 100k?

2Quills · 02/10/2012, 08:28 AM

Yeah sorry bout that. I have to go get some work done here soon. Personally i havent tried pots yet. Just the controller. So before i email this guy back do you still think its a compatibility issue even though i can run the drivers on the 5v pins just fine? Ill hold on to the original to play with so if you want to experiment just let me know. But i will have to find anothef solution before 8 months.

der_wille_zur_macht · 02/10/2012, 08:37 AM

I really don't think it's a problem with the specific driver you have in your hand, I think it's a problem with the way the Typhon is designed not being compatible with the way those drivers are operating.

I found the spec for the pot/resistor in the datasheet.

I am still holding out hope on a simple fix involving just a few external components (that I'll later design right into the board itself) but it will definitely take someone willing to experiment on their end. I don't even have a spare assembled Typhon at this moment and I'm not motivated enough to tear one off one of my systems just to test this.

(Plus I don't have an HLG laying around!) I have two solutions in mind, just mulling them over before I try to get someone to muck with their stuff.

2Quills · 02/10/2012, 08:59 AM

Cool...yeah just give me a heads up. Id be more then happy to try some stuff with it. My build is still a few months away from being finished in regards to my tank but i do have future plans for display tank lighting and lighting for another tank. So maybe i can still use it for one of those because id still like to use these or HLG's for those builds if possible.

kcress · 02/10/2012, 02:33 PM

Try this. De-power the HLGs hooked to the Typhon. Power off the Typhon too. Undo a single lead from the Typon to the HGL.

Now power up the Typhon. Screw with the time of day to get the Typhon putting out 10V. Hook the lead back up to the un-powered HGL.

Still have 10V? If yes, power up the HGL. Does the HGL come on fully?

der_wille_zur_macht · 02/10/2012, 02:45 PM

Keith, I was wondering if you'd come in here and shed some light on this. Did you follow my explanation of how the Typhon's 10v signal is generated? I'm thinking of two solutions:

1) ditch the transistors and put a non inverting amplifier (op amp) on the 5v signal with a gain of 2

2) leave the transistors as they are and put a resistor across the output corresponding to the lowest allowable value in the HLG's datasheet, 10k. In theory, when the transistor is off and the GND is floating, the HLG would see this resistor and drop to a minimum (10%) current. When the transistor is on, it would see 10v (since you're shunting the resistor) and go to 100%. I think this would result in the signal being correctly interpreted by the driver but it's all just theory in my head right now...

2Quills · 02/10/2012, 02:57 PM

I dont have a lot of time to chat, still at work bit i will try this tonight Kcress. I got an email back from the supplier and he's pretty insistant on the fact that he personally tested the 3rd controller on an HGL and found all functions to be workin.

Guillo, if you have time please tell us what the serial numbers are for your HLG's. Im going to try to put a 10v analog signal to my drivers tonight and see what happens. If they work then im sure the problem is with the controller. If they dont then im sure its a descrepency on Mean Wells side.

kcress · 02/10/2012, 05:53 PM

DWZM; I didn't in my 'skimming' but found it just now. Is the Typon's output just the processor pin or do they have a drive transistor? A PNP perhaps? I want to say your #2 will probably work but I'm not sure without more info on the Typhon's output circuit. &^$^# Scumwells!!

I'm also confused by what I'm hearing as to the Typon having 5V and 10V outputs? (Teach me to skim! LOL)

brassmonkyballs · 02/10/2012, 07:44 PM

[QUOTE=kcress;19861555 &^$^# Scumwells!!
)[/QUOTE]...but they do Mean Well

Anyhoo...I do like the drivers but have honestly not used anything else so i am biased. But they provide the size I need without high voltage to run a bunch of LEDs and not stack up 6 ELNs. Clearly they had to compromise on the design somewhere in order to offer 3 in 1 dimming function.....

02/09/2012, 02:26 PM	#27
der_wille_zur_macht Team RC Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NY Posts: 17,749	Can you measure current on the output side? Or, since they go to full on when floating, compare the intensity at "full on" with 5v to the intensity when not connected? __________________ Inconveniencing marine life since 1992 "It is my personal belief that reef aquaria should be thriving communities of biodiversity, representative of their wild counterparts, and not merely collections of pretty specimens growing on tidy clean rock shelves covered in purple coralline algae." (Eric Borneman)

02/10/2012, 08:11 AM	#40
2Quills Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Corpus Christi, TX Posts: 358	Oh and yes. I do have a couple of cheaper multi meters kicking around the house and i did compare readings last weekend. The song remains the same. The voltage only floats like that between 4-5 when i have the controller under 10%. Anything above that and i get a pretty stable reading. Figured that was normal. Last edited by 2Quills; 02/10/2012 at 08:17 AM.

02/10/2012, 08:14 AM	#41
der_wille_zur_macht Team RC Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NY Posts: 17,749	Ok then, it might not be a fault on the board, and I'm starting to think it's your meter. Not that your meter is "wrong" or broken, by any means. Again, since the 10v header floats the ground pin when it should be at a low state, all bets are off when it comes to behavior with any device or measurement. I took this approach in the design because it seemed to work just fine with the drivers we were all using at the time, but it seems clear to me now that it's not working with the drivers you guys have in-hand, for whatever reason. I've been meaning to "fix" this in a future version of the hardware, if one or both of you are interested in being a beta tester lemme know. I would just have to warn you that with other stuff going on, my development cycle is probably 6 or 8 months out. Though I do have a few ideas for some quick fixes... __________________ Inconveniencing marine life since 1992 "It is my personal belief that reef aquaria should be thriving communities of biodiversity, representative of their wild counterparts, and not merely collections of pretty specimens growing on tidy clean rock shelves covered in purple coralline algae." (Eric Borneman)

02/10/2012, 08:18 AM	#42
der_wille_zur_macht Team RC Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NY Posts: 17,749	Posting at the same time. Oh well. I don't think we need to get hung up on the multimeter reading. Just to make sure I understand fully - what size pot are you guys using to manually dim? 100k? __________________ Inconveniencing marine life since 1992 "It is my personal belief that reef aquaria should be thriving communities of biodiversity, representative of their wild counterparts, and not merely collections of pretty specimens growing on tidy clean rock shelves covered in purple coralline algae." (Eric Borneman)

02/10/2012, 08:37 AM	#44
der_wille_zur_macht Team RC Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NY Posts: 17,749	I really don't think it's a problem with the specific driver you have in your hand, I think it's a problem with the way the Typhon is designed not being compatible with the way those drivers are operating. I found the spec for the pot/resistor in the datasheet. I am still holding out hope on a simple fix involving just a few external components (that I'll later design right into the board itself) but it will definitely take someone willing to experiment on their end. I don't even have a spare assembled Typhon at this moment and I'm not motivated enough to tear one off one of my systems just to test this. (Plus I don't have an HLG laying around!) I have two solutions in mind, just mulling them over before I try to get someone to muck with their stuff. __________________ Inconveniencing marine life since 1992 "It is my personal belief that reef aquaria should be thriving communities of biodiversity, representative of their wild counterparts, and not merely collections of pretty specimens growing on tidy clean rock shelves covered in purple coralline algae." (Eric Borneman)

02/09/2012, 05:12 PM	#28
brassmonkyballs BMB Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Space Coast - Florida Posts: 471	Your lights are only running to 50% power. You need a full 10v.....it's no different than using an external 10v supply....you need 10v PWM.

02/09/2012, 07:23 PM	#30
GUILLO1 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: California Central Coast Posts: 692	your not hijacking nothing..... seems like were in the same boat so post away. All I can think of is that your meter may be faulty. Can you try a different multimeter?

02/09/2012, 07:31 PM	#31
brassmonkyballs BMB Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Space Coast - Florida Posts: 471	not knowing anything about the Typhon I would bet the 10V reference is mucking with it. Here's a long shot...its your adapter putting out enough power to the Typhon?

02/09/2012, 08:35 PM	#35
GUILLO1 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: California Central Coast Posts: 692	so LED's are only running 50% on the 5v channel. I also noticed that if I disconnect the controller drivers do not run at 100%, they run less than 50% so I guess maybe 25%. Man what a bummer and what ticks me off is that I called BoostLed a month ago and I specifically asked if the typhoon worked with the HLG-185 and John told me that it did. Anyone have any suggestions on what I can try to make it work?

02/10/2012, 07:52 AM	#39
2Quills Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Corpus Christi, TX Posts: 358	DWZM I only get continuity on the solder points that you see color coded when i follow the traces for those specific headers. No where else. The vendor seems more than willing to help get to the bottom of this but im trying to arm myself with as much info as possible. He said he tested this one before sending it and confirmed it was working. I need to ask how he tested it. Did he check voltage or simply throw it on an ELN. At this point im doubting the compatibility of my combination.

02/10/2012, 08:28 AM	#43
2Quills Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Corpus Christi, TX Posts: 358	Yeah sorry bout that. I have to go get some work done here soon. Personally i havent tried pots yet. Just the controller. So before i email this guy back do you still think its a compatibility issue even though i can run the drivers on the 5v pins just fine? Ill hold on to the original to play with so if you want to experiment just let me know. But i will have to find anothef solution before 8 months.

02/10/2012, 08:59 AM	#45
2Quills Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Corpus Christi, TX Posts: 358	Cool...yeah just give me a heads up. Id be more then happy to try some stuff with it. My build is still a few months away from being finished in regards to my tank but i do have future plans for display tank lighting and lighting for another tank. So maybe i can still use it for one of those because id still like to use these or HLG's for those builds if possible.

02/10/2012, 02:33 PM	#46
kcress Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Central California Coast. Posts: 5,383	Try this. De-power the HLGs hooked to the Typhon. Power off the Typhon too. Undo a single lead from the Typon to the HGL. Now power up the Typhon. Screw with the time of day to get the Typhon putting out 10V. Hook the lead back up to the un-powered HGL. Still have 10V? If yes, power up the HGL. Does the HGL come on fully?

02/10/2012, 02:45 PM	#47
der_wille_zur_macht Team RC Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NY Posts: 17,749	Keith, I was wondering if you'd come in here and shed some light on this. Did you follow my explanation of how the Typhon's 10v signal is generated? I'm thinking of two solutions: 1) ditch the transistors and put a non inverting amplifier (op amp) on the 5v signal with a gain of 2 2) leave the transistors as they are and put a resistor across the output corresponding to the lowest allowable value in the HLG's datasheet, 10k. In theory, when the transistor is off and the GND is floating, the HLG would see this resistor and drop to a minimum (10%) current. When the transistor is on, it would see 10v (since you're shunting the resistor) and go to 100%. I think this would result in the signal being correctly interpreted by the driver but it's all just theory in my head right now... __________________ Inconveniencing marine life since 1992 "It is my personal belief that reef aquaria should be thriving communities of biodiversity, representative of their wild counterparts, and not merely collections of pretty specimens growing on tidy clean rock shelves covered in purple coralline algae." (Eric Borneman)

02/10/2012, 02:57 PM	#48
2Quills Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Corpus Christi, TX Posts: 358	I dont have a lot of time to chat, still at work bit i will try this tonight Kcress. I got an email back from the supplier and he's pretty insistant on the fact that he personally tested the 3rd controller on an HGL and found all functions to be workin. Guillo, if you have time please tell us what the serial numbers are for your HLG's. Im going to try to put a 10v analog signal to my drivers tonight and see what happens. If they work then im sure the problem is with the controller. If they dont then im sure its a descrepency on Mean Wells side.

02/10/2012, 05:53 PM	#49
kcress Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Central California Coast. Posts: 5,383	DWZM; I didn't in my 'skimming' but found it just now. Is the Typon's output just the processor pin or do they have a drive transistor? A PNP perhaps? I want to say your #2 will probably work but I'm not sure without more info on the Typhon's output circuit. &^$^# Scumwells!! I'm also confused by what I'm hearing as to the Typon having 5V and 10V outputs? (Teach me to skim! LOL)

02/10/2012, 07:44 PM	#50
brassmonkyballs BMB Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Space Coast - Florida Posts: 471	[QUOTE=kcress;19861555 &^$^# Scumwells!! )[/QUOTE]...but they do Mean Well Anyhoo...I do like the drivers but have honestly not used anything else so i am biased. But they provide the size I need without high voltage to run a bunch of LEDs and not stack up 6 ELNs. Clearly they had to compromise on the design somewhere in order to offer 3 in 1 dimming function.....