Multiple tanks with cascading water flow

ppurcell · 08/15/2007, 05:45 PM

I am setting up a new frag tank and refugium where the frag tank will sit on a shelf above the fuge. I and I am wondering if anyone can help me design it so that I can pump the water up from my sump (which sits lower than the fuge) and have the water flow from the frag tank, down to the refugium and then back down to the sump.

The trick is that I don't want bubbles from a durso or gravity feed from the frag tank going into the refugium. I am thinking of using a siphon between the frag and fuge tanks and then a simple gravity drain with an external durso from the fuge to the sump as I don't care about bubbles going down to the sump.

Both the frag tank and the refugium have two holes for 1" bulkheads drilled about 3" from the top of the tank. One on either end of the backside of the tank.

Thanks!

ppurcell · 08/16/2007, 05:37 PM

no one feeling helpful?

Toddrtrex · 08/16/2007, 06:44 PM

Okay, mind you I am on pain meds, and my mind isn't too clear.

The one concern that comes to mind is that the last/lowest tank better have enough extra room to handle the extra water when the power goes off.

And when you say a siphon b/t the tanks do you mean a overflow box type siphon or a straight siphon? -- If not using a box, how would it restart?

ppurcell · 08/16/2007, 07:28 PM

Appreciate the help. I currently run a siphon from my primary fuge into my display which is started by a combination of water pressure and an aqualifter to break the airlock. It works almost all the time...

Here is a picture of what I tried to describe in my first post. I know I'll get no gold stars for my artistic abilities.

skhle · 08/16/2007, 07:48 PM

Oh man you make it so complicated, wish I have all that room.

ppurcell · 08/16/2007, 07:52 PM

Most of the plumbing will be much shorter and cleaner when installed. Most of the runs are longer in the picture in order to represent everything in 2D and have minimal overlap on the piping.

luv951 · 08/16/2007, 07:58 PM

I was trying to figure out a different situation that was very similar to this one and the kind people on here helped my by showing a simple way to design a siphon using PVC. The siphon will break if the power goes out, but will start right back up again when without priming.

It uses an over-the-tank PVC siphon with a standpipe like in the center of the pic. The diagram goes tank to skimmer sump to fuge to final sump. Look at the fuge to final sump plumbing.

ppurcell · 08/16/2007, 08:03 PM

luv951, that is very interesting. Did you implement it, and if so, how well does it work?

are there any pipe size requirements, lengths or ratios that are important?

luv951 · 08/16/2007, 08:53 PM

I have not implemented it yet, but there is a long thread on here from the guy who I think developed it originally. I can't run a search, but perhaps someone can and link to it. After spending some time pondering the concept, I think its ingenious. The guy who designed it had used it for quite some time wth no troubles and then other followed his lead and also had not problems.

As far as sizing, it was all done with 1.5 inch pvc if memory serves, but in theory any size pipe would work.

The key is that the standpipe should be higher than the water level in the sump.

Can anyone link to that thread?

luv951 · 08/16/2007, 08:56 PM

If someone can get the search engine to work, search for 'drilling a filled tank'

Thats what I was asking about when I was showed this method.

luv951 · 08/16/2007, 09:05 PM

BTW - to avoid bubbles making it through the plumbing, just put a bubble trap before the intake in the fuge : )

ppurcell · 08/22/2007, 08:57 PM

lub951, I'm not sure what you mean by putting a bubble trap in the fuge. Can you explain?

Any more thoughts, suggestions, observations or advice?

08/15/2007, 05:45 PM	#1
ppurcell Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Naperville, IL Posts: 2,911	Multiple tanks with cascading water flow I am setting up a new frag tank and refugium where the frag tank will sit on a shelf above the fuge. I and I am wondering if anyone can help me design it so that I can pump the water up from my sump (which sits lower than the fuge) and have the water flow from the frag tank, down to the refugium and then back down to the sump. The trick is that I don't want bubbles from a durso or gravity feed from the frag tank going into the refugium. I am thinking of using a siphon between the frag and fuge tanks and then a simple gravity drain with an external durso from the fuge to the sump as I don't care about bubbles going down to the sump. Both the frag tank and the refugium have two holes for 1" bulkheads drilled about 3" from the top of the tank. One on either end of the backside of the tank. Thanks!

08/16/2007, 06:44 PM	#3
Toddrtrex Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Carol Stream, IL Posts: 23,162	Okay, mind you I am on pain meds, and my mind isn't too clear. The one concern that comes to mind is that the last/lowest tank better have enough extra room to handle the extra water when the power goes off. And when you say a siphon b/t the tanks do you mean a overflow box type siphon or a straight siphon? -- If not using a box, how would it restart? __________________ Click my name and then "visit toddrtrex's homepage" for tank pictures Current Tank Info: 210g reef and 65g reef

08/16/2007, 07:58 PM	#7
luv951 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Washougal, WA Posts: 841	I was trying to figure out a different situation that was very similar to this one and the kind people on here helped my by showing a simple way to design a siphon using PVC. The siphon will break if the power goes out, but will start right back up again when without priming. It uses an over-the-tank PVC siphon with a standpipe like in the center of the pic. The diagram goes tank to skimmer sump to fuge to final sump. Look at the fuge to final sump plumbing. __________________ "Ummm, you do realize that you just took a picture of a cup of poo, right?" -my wife

08/16/2007, 08:53 PM	#9
luv951 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Washougal, WA Posts: 841	I have not implemented it yet, but there is a long thread on here from the guy who I think developed it originally. I can't run a search, but perhaps someone can and link to it. After spending some time pondering the concept, I think its ingenious. The guy who designed it had used it for quite some time wth no troubles and then other followed his lead and also had not problems. As far as sizing, it was all done with 1.5 inch pvc if memory serves, but in theory any size pipe would work. The key is that the standpipe should be higher than the water level in the sump. Can anyone link to that thread? __________________ "Ummm, you do realize that you just took a picture of a cup of poo, right?" -my wife

08/16/2007, 08:56 PM	#10
luv951 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Washougal, WA Posts: 841	If someone can get the search engine to work, search for 'drilling a filled tank' Thats what I was asking about when I was showed this method. __________________ "Ummm, you do realize that you just took a picture of a cup of poo, right?" -my wife

08/16/2007, 05:37 PM	#2
ppurcell Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Naperville, IL Posts: 2,911	no one feeling helpful?

08/16/2007, 07:28 PM	#4
ppurcell Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Naperville, IL Posts: 2,911	Appreciate the help. I currently run a siphon from my primary fuge into my display which is started by a combination of water pressure and an aqualifter to break the airlock. It works almost all the time... Here is a picture of what I tried to describe in my first post. I know I'll get no gold stars for my artistic abilities.

08/16/2007, 07:48 PM	#5
skhle Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 204	Oh man you make it so complicated, wish I have all that room.

08/16/2007, 07:52 PM	#6
ppurcell Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Naperville, IL Posts: 2,911	Most of the plumbing will be much shorter and cleaner when installed. Most of the runs are longer in the picture in order to represent everything in 2D and have minimal overlap on the piping.

08/16/2007, 08:03 PM	#8
ppurcell Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Naperville, IL Posts: 2,911	luv951, that is very interesting. Did you implement it, and if so, how well does it work? are there any pipe size requirements, lengths or ratios that are important?

08/16/2007, 09:05 PM	#11
luv951 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Washougal, WA Posts: 841	BTW - to avoid bubbles making it through the plumbing, just put a bubble trap before the intake in the fuge : ) __________________ "Ummm, you do realize that you just took a picture of a cup of poo, right?" -my wife

08/22/2007, 08:57 PM	#12
ppurcell Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Naperville, IL Posts: 2,911	lub951, I'm not sure what you mean by putting a bubble trap in the fuge. Can you explain? Any more thoughts, suggestions, observations or advice?