An open letter to the aquarium industry

[HumbleFish]

(Apologies if this insults or offends anyone. I just think I need to get some things off my chest.)

I've been doing this for 40 years now: Hobbyist, maintenance, and retail. And since getting back into the business side of things (over a year now), I've encountered things that to me seem almost unbelievable. The first is equipment/products... First, I will say that this hobby has come quite a long way thanks to technology. But what's lacking is QUALITY. In the past year, here is a list of problems I've had: 10 LED fixtures I bought for my business which had to be RMA, bottles of live bacteria that were actually just dead bacteria, bags of dead pods, contaminated DI resin, fish medications with little to no active ingredients, ammonia in salt, etc. etc. I'm not going to name any specific companies, because I'm not seeking revenge. I'm just bringing to everyone's attention the overall lack of Quality Control in our industry. This hobby is challenging enough at times. It becomes even more difficult when you can't rely upon the equipment & products you need to succeed, both as a hobbyist and as a business.

The above complaints could almost be overlooked, because these are just things - not living, breathing animals. (Except for the pods and bacteria. ) But when equipment fails, sometimes livestock is lost. Which brings me to my next gripe: All the sick, dying fish in the supply chain. Just 10 years ago ich was everyone's biggest concern. Now we have velvet, brook, uronema, flukes, bacterial infections, internal parasites/worms and many other virulent diseases to deal with. This concerns me the most for many reasons. First and foremost, I love fish and have kept some specimens in captivity for 10-15 years. When I lose one, it hurts the same as losing a beloved pet cat or dog. However, when I remove my emotions from the equation I realize our days of importing fish may be numbered if this continues. This is something that is in the back of the mind of many hobbyists and those of us in the industry alike. When the day comes where regulating the aquarium industry is front and center, it would be nice to have a leg to stand on so as to muster a defense. I get that livestock wholesalers and LFS need to make money. But sometimes I think they are so focused on short-term profits that they are sacrificing their long-term livelihood.

I will try to end this rant on a positive note. It is great to see just how far we've come with successfully keeping corals. Back in the 80s, pretty much all corals were collected in the wild and we had no idea how to care for them. Nowadays, most corals are aquacultured, and we have detailed information regarding every coral's specific needs & requirements. So, there is hope for the fish. Maybe as captive breeding increases to include more species, fish diseases will be less and less of a problem. One can only hope.

Anyway, that is all. Feel free to discuss below if you feel so inclined.

[Cancun]

Originally Posted by HumbleFish

(Apologies if this insults or offends anyone. I just think I need to get some things off my chest.)

I've been doing this for 40 years now: Hobbyist, maintenance, and retail. And since getting back into the business side of things (over a year now), I've encountered things that to me seem almost unbelievable. The first is equipment/products... First, I will say that this hobby has come quite a long way thanks to technology. But what's lacking is QUALITY. In the past year, here is a list of problems I've had: 10 LED fixtures I bought for my business which had to be RMA, bottles of live bacteria that were actually just dead bacteria, bags of dead pods, contaminated DI resin, fish medications with little to no active ingredients, ammonia in salt, etc. etc. I'm not going to name any specific companies, because I'm not seeking revenge. I'm just bringing to everyone's attention the overall lack of Quality Control in our industry. This hobby is challenging enough at times. It becomes even more difficult when you can't rely upon the equipment & products you need to succeed, both as a hobbyist and as a business.

The above complaints could almost be overlooked, because these are just things - not living, breathing animals. (Except for the pods and bacteria. ) But when equipment fails, sometimes livestock is lost. Which brings me to my next gripe: All the sick, dying fish in the supply chain. Just 10 years ago ich was everyone's biggest concern. Now we have velvet, brook, uronema, flukes, bacterial infections, internal parasites/worms and many other virulent diseases to deal with. This concerns me the most for many reasons. First and foremost, I love fish and have kept some specimens in captivity for 10-15 years. When I lose one, it hurts the same as losing a beloved pet cat or dog. However, when I remove my emotions from the equation I realize our days of importing fish may be numbered if this continues. This is something that is in the back of the mind of many hobbyists and those of us in the industry alike. When the day comes where regulating the aquarium industry is front and center, it would be nice to have a leg to stand on so as to muster a defense. I get that livestock wholesalers and LFS need to make money. But sometimes I think they are so focused on short-term profits that they are sacrificing their long-term livelihood.

I will try to end this rant on a positive note. It is great to see just how far we've come with successfully keeping corals. Back in the 80s, pretty much all corals were collected in the wild and we had no idea how to care for them. Nowadays, most corals are aquacultured, and we have detailed information regarding every coral's specific needs & requirements. So, there is hope for the fish. Maybe as captive breeding increases to include more species, fish diseases will be less and less of a problem. One can only hope.

Anyway, that is all. Feel free to discuss below if you feel so inclined.

I totally agree!!!! It is very sad the lack of quality control on equipment, salt, etc....and more importantly the way fish are still collected in a lot of locations for the Aquarium trade....I am still struggling to understand why there are so many different disease out breaks that we haven't had to deal with in the past. This is a great discussion to bring up. I can't wait to see more replies!

Also over the years this forum has been more help to most people in the hobby, than sadly most of our LFS....who unfortunately sell expert only fish to new people in the hobby....and offer little in the way of good solid advise.

Sent from my MHA-L29 using Tapatalk

[PCguy21]

I got a 20 long gallon from aqueon yesturday, i inspected 5 tanks before i finally picked one.. all the tank had major air bubbles and 2 were even missing half the silicone in the seems...

Hell the tank i did pick out had perfect seems between the glass, but inside the silicone was completetly missing on the top 3 inches when i got home i noticed it. Since silicone DOES STICK to silicone "it not sticking is an old wives tale" i decided to pull out my silicone and fix a few spots. I shouldnt have to do this to a brand new tank.

Ive inspected the larger tanks that petco sells like the 75-150g tanks.. the silicone is paper thin inside... no wonder ive read the 150s leaking after less than a year.

So yea ive noticed quality in tanks dropping...equipment i havent had much of an issue with, mainly because well i use 20 year old Hang on back filters that still work so i never had the need to buy new ones, the power heads from korelia work fine so far, and i have had 3 top fin internal 40 filters for like 4 years now and no issues with them, my ehein 2217 has been running non stop just fine too.

Same with the jager heaters and the aqueon heater. Havent had lights burn out either.

Tanks though, ill keep my 20+ year old tanks thanks.. Hell my biggest tank is 40 years old

[tkeracer619]

I was talking to my wife about this the other day regarding the fish. I expect every single one I buy to have worms. I also expect them to have velvet. I don't think you can bring fish in and just monitor them, to me that means they will likely die. They need copper and prazi from day one.

I think the supply chain needs an overhaul regarding the mentality of fish. Right now it boils down to get them in and out as fast as possible.

[HumbleFish]

Originally Posted by tkeracer619

I think the supply chain needs an overhaul regarding the mentality of fish. Right now it boils down to get them in and out as fast as possible.

I agree, but one person can't do it all by themselves. The problem is so much bigger than that. It would take a large group of like-minded individuals with some corporate backing to tackle the problem. No aquarium business wants to stick their neck out or get their hands dirty with this. They all just want to ride the money train for as long as possible.

I suspect eventually the government will get involved and those regulations are going to hurt everyone. There's a saying: Either police yourself or the govt. will be more than happy to do it for you. Something tells me within the next 5 years or so this industry is going to find out what it's like to have The Man in your life.

[alton]

I recently received two fish from my LFS from a wholesaler (not QM) they never touched the LFS water, they came home in their shipping bag. Typical for me is 10 to 15 min. FW dip and then 4 hours of Prazi Pro and into my QT tank for observation for several weeks to see if I need to add meds. These two both angelfish where eating the next day. In a week both were dead. What happened next was hard to believe, my Blueface angel pair that I had for over a year both perished. The only connection was that both tanks where in the same room. I try and keep spoons and fish food separate. So I am guessing this sickness went air born. And the problem was not done yet, since both the 180 the blueface were in and my living room tank did share water change equipment and food the sickness followed and I lost my imperator that I grew from a baby into a sub adult. What ever this is I have not lost a Tang yet although they did get sick, and I am praying every day. My larger regal angel has been under the weather but still eats with gusto and my wrasses have never been affected. I have added Prazi pro to the tanks, and medicated their food. Hopefully Humble fish you can figure it out and get wholesalers to do something.

[PCguy21]

Thats nothing... 3 years ago i got a discus... who was healthy passed QT never got sick but he was carrying discus plague... all my discus got infected and in 5 days i lost 2500$ in fish. Only 2 lived.. and thise 2 have been carriers since..

It sickening that suppliers would sell a carrier of discus plague like this.. its a virus and once you have it it never goes away

[HumbleFish]

Originally Posted by alton

I recently received two fish from my LFS from a wholesaler (not QM) they never touched the LFS water, they came home in their shipping bag. Typical for me is 10 to 15 min. FW dip and then 4 hours of Prazi Pro and into my QT tank for observation for several weeks to see if I need to add meds. These two both angelfish where eating the next day. In a week both were dead. What happened next was hard to believe, my Blueface angel pair that I had for over a year both perished. The only connection was that both tanks where in the same room. I try and keep spoons and fish food separate. So I am guessing this sickness went air born. And the problem was not done yet, since both the 180 the blueface were in and my living room tank did share water change equipment and food the sickness followed and I lost my imperator that I grew from a baby into a sub adult. What ever this is I have not lost a Tang yet although they did get sick, and I am praying every day. My larger regal angel has been under the weather but still eats with gusto and my wrasses have never been affected. I have added Prazi pro to the tanks, and medicated their food. Hopefully Humble fish you can figure it out and get wholesalers to do something.

First, I'm very sorry to hear about your fish. Some people think I'm crazy when I try to explain aerosol transmission, but I always observe the 10-foot rule between QTs and DT.

As you may have heard, I've started a small business selling quarantined, conditioned fish. It was rough going in the early on, but things are getting better now as I'm starting to figure out the wholesalers. I had huge aspirations when I first started this, but the reality is there is only so much I can accomplish on my own. I need help, support, other people selling QT fish in order to put pressure on the industry to change the current state of affairs.

[FireViper]

Originally Posted by HumbleFish

First, I'm very sorry to hear about your fish. Some people think I'm crazy when I try to explain aerosol transmission, but I always observe the 10-foot rule between QTs and DT.

As you may have heard, I've started a small business selling quarantined, conditioned fish. It was rough going in the early on, but things are getting better now as I'm starting to figure out the wholesalers. I had huge aspirations when I first started this, but the reality is there is only so much I can accomplish on my own. I need help, support, other people selling QT fish in order to put pressure on the industry to change the current state of affairs.

Have any pajama cardinalfish? We added three from a reputable source, all died in three days.

Also, our Current USA Orbit Marine LED died today. Only 10 weeks old. Problem with the hub I think. Flickered last night, never came on this morning. Can jiggle the connection and sometimes the red LEDs come on, sometimes the green ones. Customer service isn't answering. . .. .

[OhsCC]

Well said, Humblefish. I have a 20 year old yellow tang and I am afraid to add anything into my aquarium because of all the disease these days. Quality and customer service is not as good.
Fish breeding and care has not advanced very much commercially with the larger species. Even with the university’s breeding the yellow and pacific blue tang, no commercial facility has used this successful breeding information.

[HumbleFish]

Originally Posted by FireViper

Have any pajama cardinalfish? We added three from a reputable source, all died in three days.

Just got some in today. I usually don't have any problems QTing cardinalfish. Certain wrasses and deep water anthias have proved to be the most challenging.

[alton]

An update I lost my larger regal angel, the smaller hides more now but comes out to eat with no problem. No Tangs, Flame angels, or wrasses where lost at this time. Losing six angelfish was bad enough!

[CLongfellow]

Hi Humblefish! Do you have a website to order fish from?

[PCguy21]

Humble have you had any issues with lubbocks wrasses.. i got one the other day.. seemed fine.. no ich. No apots.. ate good.. thrn overnight after day 2.. dead mouth wide open.

This was before prazi.. it was just in hypo

[Weazerdogg]

The situation with heaters is past pathetic. I think my first hang on the back heater I bought in the early '80's lasted over 30 years. Your lucky if you get 5 out of a Marineland, Hydor or ViaAqua. I've had at least 2 from each company die in the last 10 years, yeah, I'll use their name.

[Uncle99]

Originally Posted by Weazerdogg

The situation with heaters is past pathetic. I think my first hang on the back heater I bought in the early '80's lasted over 30 years. Your lucky if you get 5 out of a Marineland, Hydor or ViaAqua. I've had at least 2 from each company die in the last 10 years, yeah, I'll use their name.

Try a Fluval E-Series, smart, safe, and digital,

[Potsy]

I wonder if these problems are the result of the increasing demand by an ever growing population of hobbyists. Greater volume of fish going through wholesalers, greater volume of aquarium equipment manufacturing leading to problems with quality control. With more stuff there's more that can go wrong.

I remember buying fish after fish in the 1980s and never seeing a parasite. Last year I bought a few snails from Petco and my fish contracted velvet. Fortunately I had a hospital tank ready to go and all of them survived treatment.

And with freshwater, you buy enough fish for a community tank and you WILL introduce fish tuberculosis eventually, and unless you're willing to quarantine for many months, there's nothing to be done about it.

[sde1500]

Originally Posted by Potsy

I wonder if these problems are the result of the increasing demand by an ever growing population of hobbyists. Greater volume of fish going through wholesalers, greater volume of aquarium equipment manufacturing leading to problems with quality control.

I think this may be accurate for fish. More pressure on the oceans through fishing, climate change, habitat destruction etc, and more people buying the fish. Numbers aren't threatened for all fish, but I'm sure many populations are in some way suffering. Then add in the pressure of greater demand, the quality of the supply goes down.

For equipment though that should be no excuse, imo. QC needs to scale with production.

[saf1]

Supply chain is an interesting way to put it. I think most of the problem is money so no care or thought is given to the last mile source to final destination. Just collect, package, and ship - less time in the initial process is more money earned. Same hold true with the destination. Unbox, acclimate somewhat, toss into holding tank, then put up to sell. Somewhere in the mix the holding tanks are kept at a known salinity with standard med to last long enough to sell. Same with feeding - just enough to get it out the door to become the hobbyist problem (which may create a bigger problem if they do not follow some form of introduction process and/or QT). Then there are known difficult to ship and care for specimens but ignored. Let us not even discuss resellers removing 7 or 14 day guarantees on expensive yet hardy fish (just had this discussion last week with a reseller who flat out said it was the price regardless that the fish was hardy - go figure).

Sharing of information or using a database with a portal to track this information would be a good place to start. Sadly no one wants to share anything. Personally sometimes I feel a hammer is needed to wake people up. Stop all imports immediately on everything. Only thing available becomes what we can propagate between hobbyists be it fish or captive raised fish. While this is a nuclear option it gets attention to fix the problem or nuke the hobby as we know it. Drastic I know - but what are you to do?

Hardware you can control somewhat - don't support the knock offs or imports. With any other expensive hobby people will go with other sources and roll the dice. Not saying this is what happened here but be it power head, pump, or lighting - we have all seen it. I'm not talking about DIY here either because the end user / hobbyist knows this going into it.

Rant aside a lot of this is also the hobbyist fault. How many threads are started daily, on any number of forums one visits, whereas it says help with a coral or fish needed. You start to read it and by the end of the first sentence you already know something was bought when it shouldn't have. It was an impulse purchase or a purchase out of ignorance. How do you control those and the subsequent loss of livestock.

And this doesn't factor in the supplier or reseller importing things with a known difficulty to keep long term or size of home aquaria tanks(example of a flame scallop, Catalina goby, or Coral Cat Egg or Shark ). It is a full and vicious circle for sure.

[scattered]

Originally Posted by saf1

Rant aside a lot of this is also the hobbyist fault. How many threads are started daily, on any number of forums one visits, whereas it says help with a coral or fish needed. You start to read it and by the end of the first sentence you already know something was bought when it shouldn't have. It was an impulse purchase or a purchase out of ignorance. How do you control those and the subsequent loss of livestock.

This is the most difficult part for me to grasp. After ~8 years away from the hobby I see that the same mistakes are being made now that plagued the hobby 20 years ago. How do you not cringe when you read about a tank setup for two weeks with coral in it? I saw a thread on a nano forum a few days ago, it was an 'oh so proud of my tank' thread complete with pictures, of the one week old 13.5 G tank with a tang in it.

[HumbleFish]

Originally Posted by saf1

Then there are known difficult to ship and care for specimens but ignored.

When I QT tangs, angels, butterflies, Pseudocheilinus + Halichoeres genus wrasses and other "bread and butter fish", I have little difficulty. But fairy/flasher wrasses and anthias (especially deepwater species) are a whole different ballgame. It's not just me who has noticed this trend. And yet, those are the fish people keep buying over & over.

[PCguy21]

This was what i saw in my local petco today... and i buy from this store... geesh.


Yea my fairy wrasse and anthias i got during the 30% off sale all died in hypo... so i learned the hard way they cant handle hypo..so much for articles saying all fish by rays and sharks csn handle it... flame angel died from it too.. all the fish porcupined like dropsy

This scopas tang was in bad shape.. i dunno of this is ich or velvet or both or what... but this is what my kole tang looked like 5 days ago.. i bought it from this stole he looked fine.. in 24 hrs he looked like this tsng.. and his started peeling off... Thankfully he was in hypo and i started cupramine so whatever it was has been going away... tang looks alot better now but still has some on him.. its been 4 days in cupramine now

[RobbyG]

I have been in the hobby now for about 40 years also. Over that period of time I have had my Current Tank running non stop for the last 19 years. At it's peak I had about 12 fish, numerous shrimp and lots of soft and hard corals. Most had been thriving and growing for almost 10 years. My pair of Mandarin and my pair of Clown fish laid eggs so often it was annoying. In the end the tanks inhabitants were bought down by a Temporary Maid that came to clean the house for a day. She saw some ants near the Tanks base and decided that a half a can of pesticide from the closet would do the Job nicely. I came home about 8 hours later and only noticed an ever so slight smell of pesticide. By the next day one fish had died, by the following three more died along with the corals starting to look really bad. The whole time I had no clue what was going on. I did water changes and used Carbon packs but by then it was too late. At the end of the week all but one fish had died and almost all the corals were wiped out. On the following Monday she came again and admitted that she had sprayed the area to get rid of some ants. I told her to leave lest I do something to her that would put me in jail.

Anyway since that time I have had a lot of time to reflect on the hobby. My system was built in a very meticulous way with an insane amounts of automation and Triple redundancy for most systems. I even had the system on a 1500 Watt UPS system along with the tanks own Honda 3000EU Generator for backup power and In the end it was an idiot with a spray can that did me in!

I now believe that it is nearly impossible to keep an aquarium going long term. Too many things that one cannot predict can go wrong. Call them acts of God or whatever, but they do happen and no matter how knowledgeable you are and how well your equipment is setup and maintained these thing will happen if your tank is running long enough. I would say that almost every year something would happen but on almost every occasion I caught the problem and fixed it before any damage could occur. I also made changes so it could never happen again. Unfortunately it is that one out of ten times when you don't catch the problem or the problem just cannot be solved that will do you in.


Rob

[PCguy21]

This is why fresh water is so much easier.. Besides one bad case of discus plague that wiped out my discus once... I litterally in 20 years never had issues.. you can litterally stuff a tsbk with fish and plants.. do 80% water chabges every week or two straight from the tap and never have a issue... I litterally never see ich or any parasite.. and if i do see ich its so easy to get rid of its a joke.


Started salt water a year ago almost and its been one hassle after another after another... tons of money in fish loss from parasites.. corals are too expensive... Its actually causes me more stress then it fixes. Ive lost sleep at times and gone into depression sometimes.. with how bad the ich.velvet got in my tank.

Ive been doing hypo for 4 weeks.. and i still lost fish who cant handle hypo like anthais. Wrasse. And a flame angle... Now im doing cupramine and hypo together for the last 2 weeks.. and i hope to god once this done.. that it wont come back... because ill be honest if it does and i lose all my tangs... Ill put ny salt water tank backcinto my 55g hexagon... and just focus on the corals and hsve no fish but damsels.. my flame hawk and chromies... which are the only species i noticed that never get ich or velvet.. Wheb my 55g hex was running.. it was so beautiful.. corals were doing great.. fish were happy.. then i switched to my 135 and put my discus in my 55g hex.. ever since going to the 135 and trying tangs and sngelfish its been nothing but parasite after parasite.


So yea i hope once this hypo and copper in ny 135 is done... it doesnt come back.. i have the tank stock i want.. so i dont need anymore fish.. and my corals are sperated but ive lost 3 of em being in that 2pg tank.. Hopefully this ends soon.

[Joe0813]

companies these days would rather make so much product as cheap as possible and sell for as much as possible