Pukani Rock leacing PO4 like mad

[reefrad]

it doesnt make sense to use well water as the whole idea is to remove phosphates from the rock. i would use ro/di salt water and forego swapping the water. this is what i did and so far so good. using water that isnt ro/di is how the damn phosphates got locked in the rock in the first place...

[maysorum]

Originally Posted by Danzig

Im just going to go ahead and use well water, i dont think it will cause problems.

Hmm, do you know the TDS of your well water? Mine is very high, 683.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by reefrad

it doesnt make sense to use well water as the whole idea is to remove phosphates from the rock. i would use ro/di salt water and forego swapping the water. this is what i did and so far so good. using water that isnt ro/di is how the damn phosphates got locked in the rock in the first place...

nice attitude there cheif, chill out. I will test my well water phosphates right now. Even if there is phosphates in it, they arnt going to just latch onto my rocks, especially with the Phosfree removing phosphates. And they will be rinsed with RO/DI before they go into my tank anyways.

[reefrad]

the only attitude in my post was directed at the 'damn phosphates'...

i still think it makes more sense to use 'clean' water. the whole idea is to 'clean' the rocks no?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by maysorum

Hmm, do you know the TDS of your well water? Mine is very high, 683.

i dont, and i wont know it until i get my RO/DI setup i just received it yesterday.

Originally Posted by reefrad

the only attitude in my post was directed at the 'damn phosphates'...

i still think it makes more sense to use 'clean' water. the whole idea is to 'clean' the rocks no?

No. Im not cleaning the rocks, im absorbing the phosphates from them.. and if there is a little bit of phosphate in my water it will do the same thing. Even so, at the end of doing this there will be little to no phosphates left. I appreciate your concern though.

[bertoni]

If the well water is high enough in phosphate, which can be tested, it might require a lot of Phosfree to remove it, but it should work. The well water might be contaminated with other things, though, so it could be an issue. Copper comes to mind as one possibility.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by bertoni

If the well water is high enough in phosphate, which can be tested, it might require a lot of Phosfree to remove it, but it should work. The well water might be contaminated with other things, though, so it could be an issue. Copper comes to mind as one possibility.

ok thanks!

[banzai75x]

Glad I found this post. I'm battling the hair algae. Been using RODI since day one. I bleached/acid washed the rock but the algae came and its not stopping. I'm doing water chagnes every 2 weeks.

Will it ever stop?

I might go the route of the LC drip but I need to do more research.

I'm running GFO too.. Doesn't seem to be helping.

[banzai75x]

Is a 100 micron sock too big?

[OregonReefer]

Dave and Monica had great success with a 10 micron sock... The precipitate is pretty fine stuff

[zigzag1]

Originally Posted by tmz

Zigzag Not all of it will. It depends on the water it was in and how it was processed. I'd just let it sit for a few days in curing water and monitor the water's PO4 level. If it doesn't go up then it's not leaching PO4.Other than being dead , it's not much different than live rock in terms of organic content as well as phospahte. There is still dry material will decay in water.It's a good product that benefits from some early attention.

Hi Tom. Not sure I fully understand your reply but just wanted to share my experience with the 'reefsaver' type rock, which I have recently re-purchased and re-tested. The rock I am using is acquired from Premium Aquatics. It is mined limestone rock, very similar to all of the BRS Reefsaver rock and Marco rock I have ever seen. All of these mined type rocks look exactly the same to me more or less, with a consistent beige color and lifeless appearance, and not a recently live rock which has been dried look with a more varied texture.

I am not exactly sure where it is acquired by PA, but Jeremy is a member of my reef club, INDMAS, and might share his source with me. If he says it's okay by him, I'll share it here too. The Premium Aquatics dry rock is what I'm calling mined rock.

When the mined type rocks are soaked in my old tank water for more than 72 hours and then tested for phosphates, I have always had very low results. This time using the PA dried, mined rock and tested with the Hanna Phosphate checker at 36 hours and 72 hours, both tests show very low levels of phosphates - 0.00 by the Hanna checker. This is very similar to my previous tests of this type of rock. I do realize there is some error margin in the tester, but feel even so, the values are still significantly low compared to other types of dried recently live rock. To me this is a HUGE advantage over dry Pukani or any other recently live then dried rock. I choose to use mined dry rock over dried live for the advantage of low nutrients- and this is the point I am trying to share with others.

If your results are different, can you tell me where you acquired your dry rock? My point is about the mined, not recently from a reef or in the ocean, type rock. Can you also share the water yours was in, and how it was processed? The rock I have soaked and tested seems very different than dead rock as far as nutrient content. This is consistent with my results doing this with this type of dried rock over the last few years. I realize that my mined rock was likely previously live rock, possibly many hundred or thousands of years ago, but feel it is very different than recently live rock in phosphate and organic content. I think the point I am trying to make has value, may be valuable to others considering the dry rock route and which type may more quick and easy to use. JMTC!

[banzai75x]

Originally Posted by OregonReefer

Dave and Monica had great success with a 10 micron sock... The precipitate is pretty fine stuff

Can't seem to locate one on the fish stores.. They are all 100 micron.. Anyone know where to get one?

[BowieReefer84]

Originally Posted by banzai75x

Can't seem to locate one on the fish stores.. They are all 100 micron.. Anyone know where to get one?

http://www.filterprofilters.com/

I have ordered from them with positive results.

[banzai75x]

So I was thinking some more, and instead of using a sock. I was thinking of pulling half of my rock out and then added the LC or this..

http://www.marinedepot.com/Aqua_Visi...ADSAPR-vi.html

That way at least I can clean off the algae that is on the rock as well and treat it at the same time.

This shouldn't affect any of the critters right?

Would this be a better route to go or would you suggest just dripping through a filter sock.

[sahin]

Originally Posted by zigzag1

Hi Tom. Not sure I fully understand your reply but just wanted to share my experience with the 'reefsaver' type rock, which I have recently re-purchased and re-tested. The rock I am using is acquired from Premium Aquatics. It is mined limestone rock, very similar to all of the BRS Reefsaver rock and Marco rock I have ever seen. All of these mined type rocks look exactly the same to me more or less, with a consistent beige color and lifeless appearance, and not a recently live rock which has been dried look with a more varied texture.

I am not exactly sure where it is acquired by PA, but Jeremy is a member of my reef club, INDMAS, and might share his source with me. If he says it's okay by him, I'll share it here too. The Premium Aquatics dry rock is what I'm calling mined rock.

When the mined type rocks are soaked in my old tank water for more than 72 hours and then tested for phosphates, I have always had very low results. This time using the PA dried, mined rock and tested with the Hanna Phosphate checker at 36 hours and 72 hours, both tests show very low levels of phosphates - 0.00 by the Hanna checker. This is very similar to my previous tests of this type of rock. I do realize there is some error margin in the tester, but feel even so, the values are still significantly low compared to other types of dried recently live rock. To me this is a HUGE advantage over dry Pukani or any other recently live then dried rock. I choose to use mined dry rock over dried live for the advantage of low nutrients- and this is the point I am trying to share with others.

If your results are different, can you tell me where you acquired your dry rock? My point is about the mined, not recently from a reef or in the ocean, type rock. Can you also share the water yours was in, and how it was processed? The rock I have soaked and tested seems very different than dead rock as far as nutrient content. This is consistent with my results doing this with this type of dried rock over the last few years. I realize that my mined rock was likely previously live rock, possibly many hundred or thousands of years ago, but feel it is very different than recently live rock in phosphate and organic content. I think the point I am trying to make has value, may be valuable to others considering the dry rock route and which type may more quick and easy to use. JMTC!

zigzag1: Many thanks for your post. I live in the UK and had my wife bring over Key Largo Rocks purchased from Marcorocks . com whilst she was in the USA. I bought it because looking at build threads over many forums, this dry rock seemed to have the least amount of organics and leached the least amount of Phosphates.

Can you please clarify one thing though: What is the exact type of rock you purchased?

The reason I am asking is because so many people state "dry rock", "marco rocks" etc etc and as an example; Marcorocks isnt a product; it is the business name, Key largo, Dry Fiji, etc etc are the products.

I had to ask so many people and do some detective work to figure out what type of rock they had actually bought that they are saying is very good.

Not having a go at you; quite the opposite; I thank you for your post. I just want you to clarify the type of rock because it will help others in making an informed choice.

I went to the PA website and it looks like Jeremy sells only TWO types of dry rock. One of them is the Key Largo Rocks from Marcorocks and the
other is something called South Seas dry base rock.

Here are the links:
http://premiumaquatics.com/aquatic-s...s/C-00370.html - South seas rock

http://premiumaquatics.com/aquatic-s...MARCO-DRY.html - Marco Key Largo Rocks

If you can be certain as to which type the rock is and report back to this thread I would truly appreciate that.

FWIW, I am slightly unsure about how clean the Key Largo dry rock from Marcorocks is, and proceeded to clean it via the following:

1. Several washes through RO water.
2. Soak in bleach.
3. Several washes in RO water.
4. Acid wash in Muriatic Acid.
5. Several washes in RO water.

The rocks are now in my tank which I just reset with the Key Largo rocks. I added saltwater a few days ago and added Special Blend to seed the rocks with bacteria. I have a Hanna ULR Phosphorus meter which I am quite used to using and will take a few readings to confirm just how clean this rock is. When I used Liverock previously, even after a few months I was getting more than 0.5ppm phosphate unless I utilised lots of phosphate remover in my reactor.

If I get a reading at or below 0.03ppm without the use of any phosphate remover then I will be very happy. I will post my finding in a few days.

If you do infact have the Key Largo type, then I am very happy because it means I have the same stuff and so I wont be fighting a phosphate battle.

Many thanks.

[swanny]

Wish I would have come across this thread earlier. Just tore down and rebuilt my 120g and added 75lbs. of dry Marco rock (key largo and shelf rock). Looks like I may be curing for a while. I'll add chaeto and run gfo and see how it goes. I won't run lights to reduce ha.

[sahin]

Originally Posted by swanny

Wish I would have come across this thread earlier. Just tore down and rebuilt my 120g and added 75lbs. of dry Marco rock (key largo and shelf rock). Looks like I may be curing for a while. I'll add chaeto and run gfo and see how it goes. I won't run lights to reduce ha.

Why? It looks like the current 2010 plus batches of Key Largo Rocks from MarcoRocks is the best in terms of least amount of organics and phosphate.

I should have said above that I was unsure about the Key Largo rocks, hence why I did the acid wash etc, but since reading more and more build thread I believe it is the cleanest. I will confirm in a few days time in respect of the phosphate leaching, if any.

[swanny]

Yeah, I'll confirm as well. The good thing about my set up is I'm just starting over, not adding to an established tank. I can go without lights, use the skimmer, gfo and chaeto. This should take care of excess phosphates as well as my ammonia cycle, hopefully. My Marcorock is amazing by the way. Used putty to make the coolest islands with shelf rock sticking out.

[sahin]

Originally Posted by swanny

Yeah, I'll confirm as well. The good thing about my set up is I'm just starting over, not adding to an established tank. I can go without lights, use the skimmer, gfo and chaeto. This should take care of excess phosphates as well as my ammonia cycle, hopefully. My Marcorock is amazing by the way. Used putty to make the coolest islands with shelf rock sticking out.

I am starting out completely fresh too. I will run the tank without lights for about 6 weeks. If the rocks do in fact have very little phosphates on them, then I believe within that time, I can bring the overall phosphate and nutrient level very low for SPS requirements and then start lights at a few hours per day whilst keeping a eye on the parameters.

[swanny]

Yep, you and I are in the same boat here. You can also add a water change in that time frame.

[purge43]

I didnt read all the posts on this thread, but this you may find interesting..................Your question regarding product BRS Pukani Dry Eco Aquarium Live Rock has been answered

Your question:
I just read a post in Rc and the poster claims his source of high Po4 is from his BRS Pukani rock. I asked for confirmation and for his methods of coming to that conclusion. I also am a victim of high Po4, my source could be from some cheap rock I bought from a lfs going out of business or my city water supply. I was planning on buying a bunch of the Pukani rock and starting all over. But now Im concerned. Is it posible Pukani rock has alot of Po4, if so could I get it out? or Do you have a rock that you can assure me is Po4 free?


Their answer is:
Hey William,
Phosphates are pretty much always caused by excessive feeding, poor filtration, and not enough water changes. While some people out there claim a particular rock could somehow house and leach phosphates I haven't ever seen any science to back that up and it tends to go against standard solubility rules (ie, if its present it wouldn't dissolve into the water). The pukani rock is the same as live rock (it was live, its literally the same stuff) but has been allowed to dry. It is possible if the rock wasn't properly cured or washed that if there is still decaying organic matter on the rock (say a dead starfish inside it or something) that that could be breaking down and contributing to the levels of phosphate in the tank. Properly curing the rock before putting it into the tank should take care of that though.

[sahin]

I am so pleased to report that my Key Largo Rocks are very clean! Very LOW PHOSPHATE!

I tested using my Hanna ULR Phosphorus meter. I have been using this meter for the past 6 months or so and I can say that I am fairly well versed with using the meter and consequently obtain consistent results.

I made several tests in any event. I got a consistent result of 0.027ppm of phosphate in my tank (after conversion etc)! Woohooo! A big thumbs up to MarcoRocks!

Last night I posted above and stated that if I get a reading of 0.03ppm then I'd be pretty happy!

When I setup my 47G tank with Liverock it took me MANY MONTHS of using 0.5litres of Phosphate remover to bring levels below 0.03ppm! I even had to continue using that much phosphate remover to keep the levels lower than 0.03ppm, so this is very good news for me.

I have Prodibio Bacteria on order now and will start to dose that when I get it. Previous tanks that were seeded with Prodibio did very well. Due to the low levels of phosphate in the Key Largo Rock perhaps the Prodibio bacteria might be enough to reduce phosphate levels very low without the use of phosphate remover.

I'm very pleased with my Key Largo Rocks from MarcoRocks.com!

[swanny]

Good to hear Sahin! Just fired up my tank last night. I need to add a little more salt today and I'll be good to go. Keep us updated on your progress.

[sahin]

Originally Posted by swanny

Good to hear Sahin! Just fired up my tank last night. I need to add a little more salt today and I'll be good to go. Keep us updated on your progress.

In a few days let us know what the average phosphate you get in your tank. I should have made it clear above that I dont have any sand in my tank as I am going bare bottom.

You MAY get a higher reading for phosphate though it may be due to the sand if you are using sand.

Thanks.

[SPotter]

I am trying to decide between using SeaKlear or PhosFree. Seaklear is $34 + shipping for 1 qt and I can get 3 liters or a little over 3 qts of Phosfree on amazon for $28 with free shipping. Is one better than the other?