White Knights....thoughts?

[Criley7]

I'm looking to get these two White Knight clownfish and wanted everyone's opinion.

http://youtu.be/AgH0qSQJANk

http://youtu.be/3diYJD8tXWc

www.ClownfishDepot.com

I have bought from them in the past. I got my 60g cube and stand, and also my Ecotech Radion and Mp10wes. He is a great seller and I would love to do business with him this time also. I just wanted everyone's opinion on these two before I pulled the trigger.

[Mabyboi]

They look gorgeous to me, like a black ice/platinum mix. If you trust the site them get them. I'm personally not a fan of shipping fish to my door though..

[BonsaiNut]

First one has a pug face and protruding jaw. Second one I'm not so sure about - there's something weird about the way it is swimming but it may just be clowns being clowns.

Designer clowns are so personal it is hard to comment on their appearance. But I was stunned to see that these are selling for $225. Seems like a lot of money for these fish, but others can chime in.

At the end of the day, if you are happy with them that's what counts. But I wouldn't spend that kind of money for these. But I have a pretty strong bias and don't really care for the white clowns.

[Reef1589]

I too was gonna say price seems a little steep, but its all on how much you like em...at the end of the day they are in your tank not ours :P if the price is right to you then thats fine :P

[WCreef]

I think theyre pretty cool. It really depends on what you like. Some people hate platinums but i love em. It really just depends on you.

Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2

[Tmoriarty]

Im not a big fan of platinums either but I think the price seems a little steep for them. almost 500 dollars for a pair?. If money is not an issue and you really like the clowns than perhaps it is worth it. I like the WC onyx I have (true perc) but that is just my style for clowns. Even though I am quite fond of the clown I got I do not feel I would pay 200 for her, even though she is one of my favorite fish in my tank.

[Criley7]

Thanks Everyone for your input. The genetics on these fish are amazing also, which adds to the value in my opinion.

[LargeAngels]

I wouldn't call those platinum and I also think the price is pretty steep. But if you like them that is all that matters.

[Mabyboi]

Don't let anyone sway your opinion annoy these clowns, don't let anyone tell you what you should pay for them. I paid a premium for my designers, and I love them. It's all about what you like and what you want to spend, after all, they're YOUR clowns

[Tmoriarty]

Mabyboi is right... they are in the end your clowns and only you (or your significant other) can tell you what a fair price is for them. If you like them get them. If you are iffy on it then perhaps look for similar clowns that cost less but still make you happy.

I would however consider what bonsai said.... if they do have "protruding jaw" or "pug face" these are genetic defects which come from imbreeding, just because they say the genetics are good does not mean they are telling the truth.

[LargeAngels]

The OP asked for opinions and that is what we have given.

[Mabyboi]

Originally Posted by LargeAngels

The OP asked for opinions and that is what we have given.

Oh I'm not criticizing anyone's opinion, after all I looked for opinions when I got mine. Pointing out defects and that is great, or if people have heard of certain breeds not surviving and such by all means. The part that bugs me is when people say "they're ugly" or "they're too expensive" when it's not even their clowns! This guy is excited by these clowns, he finds them attractive and wants them, so what if theyre $1000 a pair, whatever he wants to pay he an pay!

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder! :P

[velvetelvis]

Originally Posted by BonsaiNut

First one has a pug face and protruding jaw. Second one I'm not so sure about - there's something weird about the way it is swimming but it may just be clowns being clowns.

Designer clowns are so personal it is hard to comment on their appearance. But I was stunned to see that these are selling for $225. Seems like a lot of money for these fish, but others can chime in.

At the end of the day, if you are happy with them that's what counts. But I wouldn't spend that kind of money for these. But I have a pretty strong bias and don't really care for the white clowns.

I have to say, I would pass on that second fish, especially for the price mentioned. His swimming behavior looks very haphazard. He looks healthy and active enough, but the way he's kind of pitching around and bumping against the bottom instead of bobbing around like a normal clownfish (compare him to the first one) would make me leery.

[MarinaP]

Originally Posted by velvetelvis

but the way he's kind of pitching around and bumping against the bottom instead of bobbing around like a normal clownfish (compare him to the first one) would make me leery.

He is nervous. He was put in that white basket a minute or two prior to taking the video. He is fine

[velvetelvis]

Originally Posted by MarinaP

He is nervous. He was put in that white basket a minute or two prior to taking the video. He is fine

Ah, I didn't realize that. In that case, I'd say he looks fine.

If you love the way they look, Criley, and you think they're worth the price, go ahead and get 'em. As long as you're not skipping a car payment or something to cover the cost, I don't see a problem with it. Most people who don't keep saltwater would think we were nuts to consider even paying $50 for a pair of fish. It's all a matter of perspective.

[Criley7]

The White Knights are suppose to be next generation of the **name removed because of legal threat from trademark holder**, except that the parent fish are not inbred, they are from distinctly different lineages. I found this excerpt online about them.
*
“White Knights are the product of a Doni's **name removed because of legal threat from trademark holder** and Snow Onyx. The first batch was born September 11, 2011. These fish show a distinctive difference in both their patterning and coloration. The white is brighter and the patterning is unlike any other. These babies have a lot of black onyx in them which has lead to early darkening, which also means they will become even darker as they age.”
*
What I really like about these is that they have so much black in them already. I was told that is because the male Snow Onyx is an offspring of their Rods Onyx and Snowflake pair and the black onyx genetics were passed down. *This makes sense right? As for price, as long as my GF does not find out then it should be fine. Plus after the free shipping a pair of these are the same price as a pair **name removed because of legal threat from trademark holder**. Thank you everyone for your input.

[CerealKiller024]

Well coming from a person who owns a white knight I must say I love this little guy. The color of the photos does not do any justice to clownfish its white but with like this glowing blue. And Brian over at clownfishdepot is a great guy.

[Macropora]

I picked up a pair of White Knights when he first started selling them a few months ago. The pattern is almost symmetrical on both sides of the fish. I like them because they are unique. Good guy to work with and the clowns are very healthy.

[cba191]

I'm really diggin on the stormtrooper pair myself.

[Squidmotron]

Those fish are all wrong, my friend. I've seen "Finding Nemo", and I know what they're supposed to look like.

[nanoreefer1000]

I think they're **name removed because of legal threat from trademark holder** x black ice.

[Ron Reefman]

It just my personal opinion, but I don't really care much for the 'designer' clowns and the prices people pay for them is crazy. Everybody wants the newest, latest and greatest. Lets do more than keep up with the Jones', lets get something even more different. I'll just say a fool and his money are soon parted. It's your money and they will be your clowns, if you want them and the money isn't an issue, go for it.

[BonsaiNut]

Originally Posted by Ron Reefman

It just my personal opinion, but I don't really care much for the 'designer' clowns and the prices people pay for them is crazy. Everybody wants the newest, latest and greatest. Lets do more than keep up with the Jones', lets get something even more different. I'll just say a fool and his money are soon parted. It's your money and they will be your clowns, if you want them and the money isn't an issue, go for it.

I agree with you Ron, but I come at it from a slightly different perspective.

I've been keeping marine aquariums for over 30 years. In the 80's, there were only a handful of people who had successfully bred and raised clownfish, and almost no one who sold them (probably fewer than five). The problems were rife, and one of the most prominent was nutrition and flaws associated with poor nutrition. It became apparent that poor nutrition caused poor coloration in the fry, as well misbarring and other issues. Captive raised fish sold at a discount to wild caught fish because they were poorer quality. You were lucky if you got more than $2 per fish (wholesale) even if you culled aggressively and kept only the best. Every now and then if you were lucky you could find someone to take your culls as feeders.

And then a strange thing started to happen. People started buying culls because they thought they looked "cute" or were funny or interesting. Nutrition improved to the point that you COULD raise clowns that were at quality parity to wild caught - but it is still difficult and expensive. But why bother if there is a market for misbars or culls that require half the work, cheaper food, and actually (and here is the shock) can be sold at a premium.

Now anyone with a basement or garage can raise clowns with 50% success rate or higher, give them a designer name, and sell them to someone who thinks they are getting something "special". Misbarring hides the obvious flaws associated with poor husbandry. How can you tell whether you have a good quality fish when they all look like a poor quality fish from a wild caught pair?

Interestingly, it is the exact OPPOSITE of how people buy koi. Champion koi can cost tens of thousands of dollars - but the first criteria is and always has been PERFECT health - PERFECT body - PERFECT quality. Only AFTER these things are present do people start to look at color and pattern.

So if you want to pay $250 for a fish that cost $.25 to raise, and if it makes you happy, go for it. But be honest with yourself about what you are buying. I have paid more for koi that jumped out of a pond, or got eaten by a heron, so at the end of the day you have to somewhat philosophical about it. But I am saddened by the "quick buck" breeders and the depressing effect acceptance of low quality has on the captive-raised marine industry in general.

[jbax]

it may be a white night. and you may want a white night.

but do you want to spend that much money on a fish with that many defects. why is it a clownfish with bad decfects is the same price as one that has none. that fish should have been culled, but sense it has the markings of a white night it is $225. as others have said if you like them and don't mind the price or the defects. your fish, your money and your tank.

just know a reg ocellaris is $4 wholesale and nothing is done differently from reg O's and white nights. but people are willing to pay the $221 mark up.

[D-Nak]

Originally Posted by BonsaiNut

I agree with you Ron, but I come at it from a slightly different perspective.

I've been keeping marine aquariums for over 30 years. In the 80's, there were only a handful of people who had successfully bred and raised clownfish, and almost no one who sold them (probably fewer than five). The problems were rife, and one of the most prominent was nutrition and flaws associated with poor nutrition. It became apparent that poor nutrition caused poor coloration in the fry, as well misbarring and other issues. Captive raised fish sold at a discount to wild caught fish because they were poorer quality. You were lucky if you got more than $2 per fish (wholesale) even if you culled aggressively and kept only the best. Every now and then if you were lucky you could find someone to take your culls as feeders.

And then a strange thing started to happen. People started buying culls because they thought they looked "cute" or were funny or interesting. Nutrition improved to the point that you COULD raise clowns that were at quality parity to wild caught - but it is still difficult and expensive. But why bother if there is a market for misbars or culls that require half the work, cheaper food, and actually (and here is the shock) can be sold at a premium.

Now anyone with a basement or garage can raise clowns with 50% success rate or higher, give them a designer name, and sell them to someone who thinks they are getting something "special". Misbarring hides the obvious flaws associated with poor husbandry. How can you tell whether you have a good quality fish when they all look like a poor quality fish from a wild caught pair?

Interestingly, it is the exact OPPOSITE of how people buy koi. Champion koi can cost tens of thousands of dollars - but the first criteria is and always has been PERFECT health - PERFECT body - PERFECT quality. Only AFTER these things are present do people start to look at color and pattern.

So if you want to pay $250 for a fish that cost $.25 to raise, and if it makes you happy, go for it. But be honest with yourself about what you are buying. I have paid more for koi that jumped out of a pond, or got eaten by a heron, so at the end of the day you have to somewhat philosophical about it. But I am saddened by the "quick buck" breeders and the depressing effect acceptance of low quality has on the captive-raised marine industry in general.

+1000. I wish we could make this a sticky. It amazes me that people pay a high price for fish that are obviously flawed. In most cases the severe jaw deformity should be enough to turn people away.