Coral Tank from Canada (1350gal Display Tank) - split

[tidus10]

At this point I don't think it's about replacing the one broke section. I think it's about getting thicker acrylic all the way around

[Made2Rock]

A friend on mine brought up a point worth considering. The UV from the sun is really hard on plastics and he was wondering if anyone has looked into the impact of the newer LEDs (with UV range) on acrylic tanks. BTW: he is also the one that took my avatar's picture of a reverse colored moray eel while diving off Bonaire.

Joe

[albano]

Originally Posted by Made2Rock

The problem with that is they already messed up one joint are there more?

That's the reason for the additional seam braces...I've had them added to my own acrylic tanks...including a tank that had developed a seam leak, and is now fine.

[Ontheway]

So sorry to hear such a disaster, always remember theres nothing important than you and your families health, I just cannot imagine what happens if such a large installation breaks down while little kids playing in front.

I am not an experienced reefer therefore cannot comment for reasons. Just wanted to share a point I previously heard somewhere. They say if the sand is too thick and starts To harden (Precipitations etc), it may create a force to push the glass, in time.

Of course I do not know about your sand status, just an opinion..

Best wishes from Turkey.

[Reel North]

Peter I had heard a rumour that there was a failure but reading about and seeing it is heartbreaking. I know this was a huge project and you have exceeded everyone's expectations with the development of this tiny slice of nature. An amazing success.

Please accept my gratitude for sharing this with all of us and my condolences for the sudden loss of your tank and its inhabitants.

I wish you well on the next tank and look forward to seeing it progress.

Best wishes

[TonyV]

Speechless.

[swissgaurd]

so sorry to hear about this peter and shawn I wasn't aware of this till shawn had spoken at the mast meeting. I was speechless.oh and by the way excellent talk at the meeting shawn.i think next time it would be cool to bring peter with you.
I was also thinking about that hardwood floor. its truly a disaster. I do hope ATM helps out.
if I can help in anyway just holler.


vic

[mr.wilson]

Originally Posted by Elliott

does Bill have a build thread?

Bill is banned from RC unfortunately

[laf-reef]

So sorry Peter!

[tidus10]

Originally Posted by mr.wilson

Bill is banned from RC unfortunately

Why 0_o

[mr.wilson]

Originally Posted by Raul-7

Honestly, this makes me angry at ATM. Not only do they make ridiculous shows, but they make shoddy aquariums as well.

We just lost one of the best reef aquariums on RC [better than any mickey mouse aquarium they output] and it's all their fault.

yes, their tv show is hokey and they add all the fish the day they set the tank up, and they use this tacky plastic coral inserts, but in general they make solid acrylic work. This one just had a flaw and hopefully they back up their work.

[laf-reef]

Originally Posted by mr.wilson

yes, their tv show is hokey and they add all the fish the day they set the tank up, and they use this tacky plastic coral inserts, but in general they make solid acrylic work. This one just had a flaw and hopefully they back up their work.

+1

[mr.wilson]

Originally Posted by Made2Rock

The problem with that is they already messed up one joint are there more?

This is exactly the problem. The fact that one panel has blown out and an opposing panel has some delimitation that is new, makes it a bad idea to patch. This kind of tank needs to annealed in an oven at 185˚f for a few days, then slowly cooled down. You can't do that kind of work on site.

The other issue is if they don't honour a warranty now, why would they do so in the future.

Apart from all that, the insurance company will not allow another one of their tanks in Peter's home.

[mr.wilson]

Originally Posted by albano

Not an acrylic expert, but is it at all possible for ATM to send their people and equipment there, to 'remove' the (damaged) short section of the L, and 'weld' in a new end panel to the long section, (as well as additional inside seam 'braces')... which would still leave more than 1/2 the original size.

If someone had a good insurance policy and acrylic cutting and bonding skills, they could cut the long side down to 13' and have a nice tank.

[mr.wilson]

Originally Posted by Made2Rock

A friend on mine brought up a point worth considering. The UV from the sun is really hard on plastics and he was wondering if anyone has looked into the impact of the newer LEDs (with UV range) on acrylic tanks. BTW: he is also the one that took my avatar's picture of a reverse colored moray eel while diving off Bonaire.

Joe

Many outdoor tanks experience UV damage from the sun. Peter's lights have zero UV light. The actinic light only goes down to 410nm. I checked this with our UV meter. The metal halide lights we had for the first year of the tank emitted some UV but not much.

[mr.wilson]

Originally Posted by albano

That's the reason for the additional seam braces...I've had them added to my own acrylic tanks...including a tank that had developed a seam leak, and is now fine.

Yes, that adds a lot to the strength of the bond. I would just advise that any acrylic bonding agents heat up and stress the acrylic so annealing would be ideal.

[mr.wilson]

Originally Posted by Ontheway

So sorry to hear such a disaster, always remember theres nothing important than you and your families health, I just cannot imagine what happens if such a large installation breaks down while little kids playing in front.

I am not an experienced reefer therefore cannot comment for reasons. Just wanted to share a point I previously heard somewhere. They say if the sand is too thick and starts To harden (Precipitations etc), it may create a force to push the glass, in time.

Of course I do not know about your sand status, just an opinion..

Best wishes from Turkey.

First off, great to hear from someone all the way across th globe in Turkey. For anyone posting from afar, please list your location, as we will likely make a map of all of the contributors to this thread.

Yes, sand often does harden and it might even apply pressure, but Peter's sand is frequently stirred and when removed it was not clumped at all.

[ClearwaterUK]

So sad to read about the loss of the stock, years of coral growth it must be truly heartbreaking.

Looking forward to see how the new build looks, in the light of hindsight what changes are made to the new design

Best wishes from England

[Floyd R Turbo]

Originally Posted by Made2Rock

A friend on mine brought up a point worth considering. The UV from the sun is really hard on plastics and he was wondering if anyone has looked into the impact of the newer LEDs (with UV range) on acrylic tanks. BTW: he is also the one that took my avatar's picture of a reverse colored moray eel while diving off Bonaire.

Joe

I would think that if this is the case, acrylic tanks would be failing all over the place because of the tank lighting. Lots of light sources have a UV component inherent in the spectrum. But none like the sun. If it's not getting direct sun, then I doubt and artificial lighting's UV component had a significant impact

Originally Posted by mr.wilson

This is exactly the problem. The fact that one panel has blown out and an opposing panel has some delimitation that is new, makes it a bad idea to patch. This kind of tank needs to annealed in an oven at 185˚f for a few days, then slowly cooled down. You can't do that kind of work on site.

I'll have to dig thought the acrylics thread on this. There was a fair amount of discussion on the topic of annealing joints. material manufacturers almost always recommend it but no one really ever does it. At least not to my knowledge.

Originally Posted by mr.wilson

If someone had a good insurance policy and acrylic cutting and bonding skills, they could cut the long side down to 13' and have a nice tank.

I'm on my way. Think it will fit in my Jeep?

Seriously though, what is going to happen to it?

[ksed]

The proper way is to anneal is to put the tank in the oven at a specific temperature, unfortunately a lot of acrylic tank manufactures don't have this equipment as it expensive, let alone having an oven big enough to fit a tank like Peter's .

Here is some info

Proper annealing is one of the most effective single measures that can be taken to insure good service from parts made of
Plexiglas® sheet.
Annealing consists of prolonged heating of the acrylic part at temperatures lower than those used for forming, followed by
slow cooling. Internal stresses set up during fabrication of the article are reduced or eliminated by this treatment All edges
should be cut or machined with as little internal stress as possible. If excessive internal stress is present in the parts to be
cemented, crazing will occur during the cementing process. It may be necessary to anneal the parts to reduce internal
stresses that set up in the parts during fabrication or thermoforming operations. Annealing results in greater dimensional
stability and greater resistance to crazing. Heat treating also improves the strength of certain cemented joints.
To obtain the benefits of annealing, Plexiglas® sheet parts must be annealed after all fabrication steps. including polishing,
are completed. In addition to annealing after final finishing, machined parts should be annealed before cementing to reduce
stress due to machining in the cement joint area.


Here is a PDF

http://www.plexiglas.com/export/site...-Annealing.pdf

[iced98lx]

What a heartbreaker. I look forward to following the next phase of the build, based on this thread I know Peter has a huge love of his tank and the inhabitants he keeps, so I know a rebuild is inevitable.

[Floyd R Turbo]

Originally Posted by ksed

The proper way is to anneal is to put the tank in the oven at a specific temperature, unfortunately a lot of acrylic tank manufactures don't have this equipment as it expensive, let alone having an oven big enough to fit a tank like Peter's .

Here is some info

I know what annealing is. What I was referring to was the need for it.

annealing reduces stress brought on by fabrication and re-aligns things etc etc yes this is all true. But the point is that if you don't over-stress the material in the first place, you don't create a situation where annealing is really that necessary, and that's why (IMO) no one does it in the tank building industry.

i.e. all your panels are true square where they need to be, you don't have to force things into position, you don't have a cruddy stand which causes the tank to twist, your bonding process does not cause excessive heating or other stressors, you don't flame polish or use a machine polisher that induces excessive heat but instead wet sand and then final polish with machine using proper technique, you don't clean your tank with an ammonia based cleaner, etc. Any of these items, done wrong, will lead to induced stress and the first sign of induced stress is crazing, not a joint failure. Annealing would fix the problems created by poor fabrication practices at a very extreme cost, so the easier thing to do is to just do it right from the get-go.

Do I think that annealing would have saved this tank? Possibly.

[tom obrecht]

So if the insurance company won't insure again does that mean no more tank?

[nineball]

Floyd, What does "crazing' look like?

Peter

[A_CoupleClowns]

Originally Posted by tom obrecht

So if the insurance company won't insure again does that mean no more tank?

IMO if your "insured", the insurance company works for you. You are paying for their service. If they will not cover another tank in the home, the first thing that needs to be done is find another insurance company that will be able to take care of your specific situation and give you the coverage you need and are paying good money for.