Cycling- Water changes

[reefwisher]

Just curious if you are suppose to change water during the cycling period, when all you are doing is using dried fish food flakes? I have always never change water during this time of cycling, but thinking I might this time. I'm using very little foods to kick start this.

[Dmorty217]

Doing water changes during the cycling process will only prolong it.

[mcgyvr]

While ^^ seems to be the typical answer to your question stated a thousand times here I'm not sure that I have seen any proof or any logical reasoning to back that up or stipulations/scenarios to which it may hold true.


During the cycling process bacteria is rapidly reproducing (by a division process). Most of the bacteria in the tank during cycling will quickly populate surfaces of the tank and continue the reproduction process on the surfaces of the tank..

Changing the water should have a minimal if any effect on that reproduction process as there shouldn't be much if any disturbance to the populated surfaces for any long period of time.
It will remove some ammonia/nitrites,etc.. from the water but I suspect there is usually more than enough already to enable bacteria to reproduce.
It will remove some bacteria in the water column but the typical 5-20% water change should only remove 5-20% leaving plenty to reproduce.
I don't think the cycling process gets "ammonia limited" or anything like that.. Those that spike their ammonia levels higher than others don't seem to cycle any faster.. They do tend to end with higher nitrate levels than those that cycle with lower ammonia levels.

While there may be some issues performing water changes in the first few days of the cycling process after that I don't think it really has much effect on the length of the cycle and I think it can actually be beneficial by allowing you to end up with lower nitrate levels post cycling and need to do a crap ton of water changes to drop that to acceptable levels.

Now.. I don't have proof either.. But I think my rationale makes sense..

I personally think its totally fine to do water changes once your ammonia/nitrite levels are on the downward trend and nitrate levels are starting to rise.

[reefwisher]

That exactly what I was thinking, not so much as for ammonia and nitrite as that will cycle out and balance but more so for keeping nitrate down to acceptable level so it doesn't build up by the time cycle end.

[Dmorty217]

If I have learned nothing else in the 21 years keeping saltwater it’s this. Anything that is done in this hobby too quickly or when shortcuts are taken always ends badly...

[Michael Hoaster]

I've recently been made aware of some info you may find useful, at this time in your tank's development.

While cycling, keep nutrients lower and keep your lights off. The idea is to keep algae at bay while nitrifying bacteria are still multiplying. All algae have specific bacteria associated with them that help them. If allowed to grow in the cycling phase, this algae-friendly bacteria can compete with nitrifying bacteria, with the end result being more virulent algae both in the beginning and further down the road.

If this is done right, you may avoid the algae phase altogether, and you'll be less likely to get it later.

I cannot vouch for this method, since I just stumbled onto it. But the science looks solid. It would be cool to see someone try this and report their findings.

Good luck with your new tank!

[motorslave]

Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster

I've recently been made aware of some info you may find useful, at this time in your tank's development.

While cycling, keep nutrients lower and keep your lights off. The idea is to keep algae at bay while nitrifying bacteria are still multiplying. All algae have specific bacteria associated with them that help them. If allowed to grow in the cycling phase, this algae-friendly bacteria can compete with nitrifying bacteria, with the end result being more virulent algae both in the beginning and further down the road.

If this is done right, you may avoid the algae phase altogether, and you'll be less likely to get it later.

I cannot vouch for this method, since I just stumbled onto it. But the science looks solid. It would be cool to see someone try this and report their findings.

Good luck with your new tank!

This what I will doing when I start my 440. I'm going to black out the tank completely.

[Michael Hoaster]

If anybody's interested, here's the thread that goes into more detail. Scrubber steve makes some good points, and gradually convinced me.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2704137

[Scrubber_steve]

Originally Posted by motorslave

This what I will doing when I start my 440. I'm going to black out the tank completely.

No need to black out the tank completely, unless it gets direct sunlight?

Finish the cycle - add fish over time, then when ready for corals turn on the lights.

[motorslave]

Originally Posted by Scrubber_steve

No need to black out the tank completely, unless it gets direct sunlight?

Finish the cycle - add fish over time, then when ready for corals turn on the lights.

Not sure if it will get direct light, I have to find a house specifically to suite this build as far as space. My thoughts on blackout were limiting any light just makes the method more successful.

[Scrubber_steve]

Originally Posted by motorslave

Not sure if it will get direct light, I have to find a house specifically to suite this build as far as space. My thoughts on blackout were limiting any light just makes the method more successful.

During the no fish cycling stage it would be fine, but not once fish start being added. They need a little indirect light.

[motorslave]

Originally Posted by Scrubber_steve

During the no fish cycling stage it would be fine, but not once fish start being added. They need a little indirect light.

Yes I know. Im speaking to the initial cycle.