Minimum equipment needed during power outage

jjencek · 10/09/2018, 02:00 PM

I am designing my UPS based on my overall minimum power needs. A generator is not an option in my condominium.

I have searched RC and it looks like most people suggest that water movement is all I need (assuming that temperatures are not extreme)?

I have two WAVs. If I keep them at 5%, which seems just about right for my 60 gal tank, they use up about 20 Watts.

Is those two WAVs really all I need for say 36 hours?

scuzy · 10/09/2018, 02:03 PM

You can also just use a battery operated air pump. Colbat came out with some DC air pump with but in battery that last 24 hours.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

mcgyvr · 10/09/2018, 06:47 PM

Yep..just keeping the water moving is all you need..

btmedic04 · 10/09/2018, 07:48 PM

HERE is that pump that scuzy was talking about

jjencek · 10/10/2018, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

Yep..just keeping the water moving is all you need..

Do I need to keep the main pumps going - the ones that keep pushing the water over the overhang in the back of my RedSea tank? Possible better oxidation due to the water fall effect?

Of course, I am hoping for "no, just the two WAV propellers will do". :-)

mcgyvr · 10/10/2018, 04:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjencek

Do I need to keep the main pumps going - the ones that keep pushing the water over the overhang in the back of my RedSea tank? Possible better oxidation due to the water fall effect?

Of course, I am hoping for "no, just the two WAV propellers will do". :-)

No, just the two WAV propellers will do

A sump/overflow is optional and not required for any tank to succeed..

paal · 10/10/2018, 04:45 AM

Depends on the power you have available. If limited, I'd say prioritize circulation internally in your display.

I have 4 internal circulation pumps and one return pump on my system. Only one of the circulation pumps (vortech mp60) are connected to the UPS. I'd rather have a single pump run for as long as possible VS having them all run like normal and risk running out of power.

homer1475 · 10/10/2018, 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

No, just the two WAV propellers will do

A sump/overflow is optional and not required for any tank to succeed..

+1

We lost power for 4 days one time. I kept my tank running with a UPS and a single MP10 running. Everything survived just fine. I did empty the sump and refill when the power came back just for the fear of the water in the sump left unsettled for 4 days would be stagnant.

jjencek · 10/10/2018, 05:04 AM

Thank you for all the notes...

I measured that if I keep all the APEX controllers running and include the two WAVs, I use about 22 Watt. To compare the full system including lights and chiller (chilling at that moment) takes 600 Watt.

I can probably cut the 22 Watt in half if I turn off the APEX unit and keep only the 1link and one WAV on.

I will experiment and come back with results ...

solitude127 · 10/10/2018, 08:33 AM

By chance, do you use biopellets? If so, you want to keep the water moving in the reactor as well to keep it from going anaerobic.

jjencek · 10/10/2018, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solitude127

By chance, do you use biopellets? If so, you want to keep the water moving in the reactor as well to keep it from going anaerobic.

All I use in the space outside of the main tank (it is a Red Sea Tank with the back sump only), charcoal, AL 99, foam mechanical filters.

If the power outage was over a day, I should probably dump that part of the water anyway, right? I could siphon it out at the end.

solitude127 · 10/10/2018, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjencek

All I use in the space outside of the main tank (it is a Red Sea Tank with the back sump only), charcoal, AL 99, foam mechanical filters.

If the power outage was over a day, I should probably dump that part of the water anyway, right? I could siphon it out at the end.

Sounds like there's not much biological filtration back there so probably not much die off but it wouldn't hurt to siphon out the rear chambers.

jjencek · 10/11/2018, 04:41 AM

As promised, here are a few numbers from my measurements ...

I was not able to run the 1Link without the APEX only. It might be a must to have the main APEX controller running as well.

So here is the list of the only hardware I connected to the wall:

1. Power unit for the 1Link
2. 1Link unit
3. APEX control unit (wifi version)
4. Two WAVs at 10%

Usage = 18 Watts

Note: this is all done in Europe with 220 V outputs

Also it did not seem to make a measurable difference running one vs. two WAVs.

And it did not add any measurable difference adding 4 probes to the APEX unit.

origreefer · 10/11/2018, 07:55 PM

I loose power all the time, sometimes for 7 days, usually in winter. I got this down to a science, I have a solar back-up with batteries. Generators suck, they fail and during some outages getting gasoline is hard to get. I run my 75g tank off batteries using the sump's DC Ecotech pump on lowest speed, and keeping the biopellet reactor going which has a very small draw from it's tiny pump. The big draw is the heater, if winter, it's 200w is on almost 24/7 because there is no heat in the house. If you don't need the heater, just keeping the water moving in sump or tank is all you need. That doesn't use much power. I recall a story of an aquarium they discovered in FL, 6 months after a hurricane. The house had been condemned all that time . They found fish happy and alive in the tank.

jjencek · 10/24/2018, 05:50 AM

I spent some time in a UPS store discussing my design. Here is a small glitch I did not think of.

I was planning to detect the power outage with my APEX and then turn off everything but the WAV pumps (about 20 Watts). The problem is what happens right at the moment of the power outage. I could, in the worse case, be using 600 Watts right then.

If I have everything on the UPS, it would have to be rated over 1000 Watts to survive the few seconds before APEX turns everything off. That means much bigger and much more expensive UPS unit for just the split second. If you use a lower rated UPS, it can trip to protect itself and never start.

So I will forget about APEX being smart and turning things off. I will connect the APEX, the 1link and the WAV pumps onto the UPS. Everything else will be connected to the wall. When power goes out, everything turns off and the WAV pumps will stay on.

Time to put it together and test it ....

jjencek · 10/24/2018, 07:16 AM

I tested it and it worked. And here are the results ....

To run the minimum system during power outage you need:

1. The only thing connected to the UPS is the auxilary power to the 1link.
2. WAV pumps connected to the 1link.
3. APEX unit is connected to the 1link as well using the BUS connection.

The remaining devices are connected to the wall outlet (which will lose power during outage). To communicate with the rest of the devices and outlets during "normal" hours, you need the 2nd BUS connection from the APEX unit connected to anyone of the other devices.

Please, do give me feedback if you see a problem in the above.

reefteaser · 10/24/2018, 08:36 AM

Last year’s hurricane cut off my power for three days. My generator crapped out long ago, and was rarely used so I got some battery air pumps for during the storm, then used an inverter on my car afterwards to power my circ pumps, returns, and protein skimmer. 115 gal mixed reef and an IM 30L Fusion Nuvo. All DC powered, except for the skimmer, but low wattage. Left the lights off, just like a 3 day blackout. All worked out great, and I was surprised how little fuel was used from my car, a little more than a quarter tank. An idling engine uses little fuel, and I never had to use the ten gallons I stored. I will use my car as a generator from now on.
I’m checking out Jackery power stations on Amazon for an alternative power source. More costly than an inverter, but looks very convenient.

10/09/2018, 02:00 PM	#1
jjencek Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Prague, Czech Republic Posts: 366	Minimum equipment needed during power outage I am designing my UPS based on my overall minimum power needs. A generator is not an option in my condominium. I have searched RC and it looks like most people suggest that water movement is all I need (assuming that temperatures are not extreme)? I have two WAVs. If I keep them at 5%, which seems just about right for my 60 gal tank, they use up about 20 Watts. Is those two WAVs really all I need for say 36 hours?

10/09/2018, 06:47 PM	#3
mcgyvr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 20,050	Yep..just keeping the water moving is all you need.. __________________ Who me?

10/09/2018, 07:48 PM	#4
btmedic04 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Ohio Posts: 256	HERE is that pump that scuzy was talking about __________________ Current Tanks: New build in progress :)

10/10/2018, 08:33 AM	#10
solitude127 Proud user of IO Salt! Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Torrance, CA Posts: 9,136	By chance, do you use biopellets? If so, you want to keep the water moving in the reactor as well to keep it from going anaerobic. __________________ Mike <)))>{ <)))>{ <)))>{ <)))>{ ReefKeeping.com TOTM Nov 2012 Socalireefs Featured Reef Oct 2011 Current Tank Info: 603020, 8x54 ATI Powermodule, ReefBrite XHO, ATB Elegance 200, Aquamaxx CTech CaRx, Ecotech Vortechs, Apex Controls, WM Ecobak powered. RedSea Reefer 170, MP10, Apex Jr, Ecotech Radion XR15, Aquamaxx WS-1

10/11/2018, 07:55 PM	#14
origreefer Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 264	I loose power all the time, sometimes for 7 days, usually in winter. I got this down to a science, I have a solar back-up with batteries. Generators suck, they fail and during some outages getting gasoline is hard to get. I run my 75g tank off batteries using the sump's DC Ecotech pump on lowest speed, and keeping the biopellet reactor going which has a very small draw from it's tiny pump. The big draw is the heater, if winter, it's 200w is on almost 24/7 because there is no heat in the house. If you don't need the heater, just keeping the water moving in sump or tank is all you need. That doesn't use much power. I recall a story of an aquarium they discovered in FL, 6 months after a hurricane. The house had been condemned all that time . They found fish happy and alive in the tank. __________________ Founder, DFWMAS, 1992

10/09/2018, 02:03 PM	#2
scuzy Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 6,499	You can also just use a battery operated air pump. Colbat came out with some DC air pump with but in battery that last 24 hours. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

10/10/2018, 04:45 AM	#7
paal Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Norway Posts: 368	Depends on the power you have available. If limited, I'd say prioritize circulation internally in your display. I have 4 internal circulation pumps and one return pump on my system. Only one of the circulation pumps (vortech mp60) are connected to the UPS. I'd rather have a single pump run for as long as possible VS having them all run like normal and risk running out of power.

10/10/2018, 05:04 AM	#9
jjencek Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Prague, Czech Republic Posts: 366	Thank you for all the notes... I measured that if I keep all the APEX controllers running and include the two WAVs, I use about 22 Watt. To compare the full system including lights and chiller (chilling at that moment) takes 600 Watt. I can probably cut the 22 Watt in half if I turn off the APEX unit and keep only the 1link and one WAV on. I will experiment and come back with results ...

10/11/2018, 04:41 AM	#13
jjencek Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Prague, Czech Republic Posts: 366	As promised, here are a few numbers from my measurements ... I was not able to run the 1Link without the APEX only. It might be a must to have the main APEX controller running as well. So here is the list of the only hardware I connected to the wall: 1. Power unit for the 1Link 2. 1Link unit 3. APEX control unit (wifi version) 4. Two WAVs at 10% Usage = 18 Watts Note: this is all done in Europe with 220 V outputs Also it did not seem to make a measurable difference running one vs. two WAVs. And it did not add any measurable difference adding 4 probes to the APEX unit.

10/24/2018, 05:50 AM	#15
jjencek Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Prague, Czech Republic Posts: 366	I spent some time in a UPS store discussing my design. Here is a small glitch I did not think of. I was planning to detect the power outage with my APEX and then turn off everything but the WAV pumps (about 20 Watts). The problem is what happens right at the moment of the power outage. I could, in the worse case, be using 600 Watts right then. If I have everything on the UPS, it would have to be rated over 1000 Watts to survive the few seconds before APEX turns everything off. That means much bigger and much more expensive UPS unit for just the split second. If you use a lower rated UPS, it can trip to protect itself and never start. So I will forget about APEX being smart and turning things off. I will connect the APEX, the 1link and the WAV pumps onto the UPS. Everything else will be connected to the wall. When power goes out, everything turns off and the WAV pumps will stay on. Time to put it together and test it ....

10/24/2018, 07:16 AM	#16
jjencek Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Prague, Czech Republic Posts: 366	I tested it and it worked. And here are the results .... To run the minimum system during power outage you need: 1. The only thing connected to the UPS is the auxilary power to the 1link. 2. WAV pumps connected to the 1link. 3. APEX unit is connected to the 1link as well using the BUS connection. The remaining devices are connected to the wall outlet (which will lose power during outage). To communicate with the rest of the devices and outlets during "normal" hours, you need the 2nd BUS connection from the APEX unit connected to anyone of the other devices. Please, do give me feedback if you see a problem in the above.

10/24/2018, 08:36 AM	#17
reefteaser Convince'em or confuse'em Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: S FL Posts: 341	Last year’s hurricane cut off my power for three days. My generator crapped out long ago, and was rarely used so I got some battery air pumps for during the storm, then used an inverter on my car afterwards to power my circ pumps, returns, and protein skimmer. 115 gal mixed reef and an IM 30L Fusion Nuvo. All DC powered, except for the skimmer, but low wattage. Left the lights off, just like a 3 day blackout. All worked out great, and I was surprised how little fuel was used from my car, a little more than a quarter tank. An idling engine uses little fuel, and I never had to use the ten gallons I stored. I will use my car as a generator from now on. I’m checking out Jackery power stations on Amazon for an alternative power source. More costly than an inverter, but looks very convenient.