The Reef Central Corner Club Thread

[boret]

If light penetration is not an issue because you will not keep light hungry SPS or clams and such then go LED. It is perfect for you.
You can probably get away with 36 LEDs. You can get the non premium pkg for $330:



Then add a heat sink from http://www.heatsinkusa.com/ for a total of $400.

Premium LEDs will make sense if you were concerned about SPS corals, otherwise the regular ones would do. The other option is to get the dimmable ones. Unless you have a controller for the dimming effect I think its a waste of $. I had a dimmable elec. ballast and never once used the feature because I couldn't control it with the ACIII.

If you go MH. $100 for Ballast, $125 for a good Reflector and $85 for the Light Bulb if you get a Radium. That's $305 initial investment plus yearly bulb cost ($60 to $85) and 10 hours of 400W consumption of electricity. The electricity would be 400W x 10hrs x 30days = 120 kWhr @ $0.157/kWhr in my area comes up to about $19 per month or $228 per year. So your year expenses would be about $300 to run a single 400W MH.

Add to that the Chiller. If you get a 1/4 HP and only have to lower the temp 10 degrees you are looking at 600 Watts and about 800 if lowering 20. My guess is that the chiller would run about 30% of the time during the day depending on how hot do you keep you house in the winter and about 80% of the time in the summer. So 600 Watts for 8 hours per day for 8 months and 800 Watts for 18 hrs per day for 4 months.

That's $23 per month in cool months and $68 in hot months. If you get similar weather to mine in VA then you are looking at $184 for Autumn, Winter and Spring and $272 for summer. For a total of $456 per year.

You are looking at $756 per year to run a single 400 MH and a 1/4HP chiller.

I think LEDs look like a very promising alternative for your tank.

After calculating this..... darn!! This is a expensive hobby.

[L98-Z]

I have a 70 gallon, 92 gallon, 180 gallon, and a 300 gallon. Very expensive hobby. I'm selling off the 180 and maybe making the 300 just a FOWLR. So the 92 is going to be my "special" tank.

I'm not not a huge fan of LEDs. I think they're a little over rated, nor do I believe their life duration of 10 years. Most people who use them seem to lose some over 2-3 years. It is an interesting concept that I'll look more into though.

As for the prices.. I'd buy all my MH stuff used, saving money. I also don't expect the chiller to run quite that much. I'll still be running a chiller too even with the LEDs. I think alot of the initial heat from the MH can be dissipated with properly placed fans.

[boret]

L98-Z I use both a 400W MH and a Chiller (1/10) so don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to sell you on the LED idea. I just thought that it would be an interesting thing to consider.... also, I would love to see how a 92 is lighted up with LEDs

At the beginning of my reefing adventure I never gave much thought to the electric bill. But most of my latest mods in my setup DO keep electric usage in mind.
For example, I setup a single external Dart to run the return, fuge, frag tank, chiller and media reactor. By doing so I eliminated 4 internal pumps that were using more Watts than the external Dart and were also heating up the water therefore more usage of the chiller in warmer days.

I use a Close Loop (ran with an external Little Giant pump) for water flow combined with now a Vortech MP40W and a single Tunze 6025. With the External and the Vortech I have further reduced the amount of heat introduced into the water by the powerheads.

Recently I modified my lighting schedule a bit. Instead of keeping them on for 10+ hours I start off with the VHO Super Actinics but only for about 45 mins. Once the main 400 MH turns on I turn off the VHO (4 of them). Visually the VHOs were not adding much because I use a 20k bulb which is plenty blue. They are ON again 10 mins before the MH turns off and for another hour or so until all the lights are off.

At first I used to have all my exhaust fans ON in the canopy, now I control them with the ACIII and a temp statement.

Same with RODI water waste. I used to rely solely on the float switch to turn on and off the RODI. So every time the ATO turn on a fraction of a gallon was pumped into the main system through the kalkwasser and the RODI will turn on because it was enough to lower the float valve.

I now use flow switches and run the RODI only when my 45gal RODI container has about 5-10 gal left. I still keep the float switch as a backup to avoid a spillage. I am getting, consistently 0 TDS, less waster water and my filters are lasting longer. I am sure I am also helping with the longevity of the Back Pressure Valve in the RODI unit.

I am a bit off subject here but once you start getting serious into the hobby you start to realize the amount of $$ you spend on utilities and maintenance. So for whomever is setting up a new tank, think about it. It is a higher investment at the beginning but totally worth it in the long run.

Don't even get me started on supplements. If you do the liquid 2/3 part solutions (Mg, Alk, Ca) and your corals start demanding more and more you end up spending a ton. Dowflake, baking soda and epsom salt its way cheaper than readily made over-the-counter 2/3 part solutions. There is a great article HERE with recipes.

[Hookup]

Originally Posted by boret

L98-Z I use both a 400W MH and a Chiller (1/10) so don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to sell you on the LED idea. I just thought that it would be an interesting thing to consider.... also, I would love to see how a 92 is lighted up with LEDs

At the beginning of my reefing adventure I never gave much thought to the electric bill. But most of my latest mods in my setup DO keep electric usage in mind.
For example, I setup a single external Dart to run the return, fuge, frag tank, chiller and media reactor. By doing so I eliminated 4 internal pumps that were using more Watts than the external Dart and were also heating up the water therefore more usage of the chiller in warmer days.

I use a Close Loop (ran with an external Little Giant pump) for water flow combined with now a Vortech MP40W and a single Tunze 6025. With the External and the Vortech I have further reduced the amount of heat introduced into the water by the powerheads.

Recently I modified my lighting schedule a bit. Instead of keeping them on for 10+ hours I start off with the VHO Super Actinics but only for about 45 mins. Once the main 400 MH turns on I turn off the VHO (4 of them). Visually the VHOs were not adding much because I use a 20k bulb which is plenty blue. They are ON again 10 mins before the MH turns off and for another hour or so until all the lights are off.

At first I used to have all my exhaust fans ON in the canopy, now I control them with the ACIII and a temp statement.

Same with RODI water waste. I used to rely solely on the float switch to turn on and off the RODI. So every time the ATO turn on a fraction of a gallon was pumped into the main system through the kalkwasser and the RODI will turn on because it was enough to lower the float valve.

I now use flow switches and run the RODI only when my 45gal RODI container has about 5-10 gal left. I still keep the float switch as a backup to avoid a spillage. I am getting, consistently 0 TDS, less waster water and my filters are lasting longer. I am sure I am also helping with the longevity of the Back Pressure Valve in the RODI unit.

I am a bit off subject here but once you start getting serious into the hobby you start to realize the amount of $$ you spend on utilities and maintenance. So for whomever is setting up a new tank, think about it. It is a higher investment at the beginning but totally worth it in the long run.

Don't even get me started on supplements. If you do the liquid 2/3 part solutions (Mg, Alk, Ca) and your corals start demanding more and more you end up spending a ton. Dowflake, baking soda and epsom salt its way cheaper than readily made over-the-counter 2/3 part solutions. There is a great article HERE with recipes.

I think you should start a thread in the forum for ecco-practices for reef-keeping describign this setup... and getting others to contribute their innovations/designs for lower-carbon footprint tanks/systems... or at least lower bills...

My frigg'n electric bill is over $250/month... which is double from the no-tank days... my water is equally bad.

[boret]

That's a great idea. I just love to keep all the discussions in this thread, is like my home in RC
.....err.... too late: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1715787

[robot2222]

it is kind of our responsability to try to keep a lower carbon footprint.expecially on somthing we love so much keeping reef tanks and understanding there beauty .not to kiil them with our polution. the money you save you can go vaca and go snorkling/diving.

[Michael]

can you save energy and run a reef?

i mean really, can we?

[boret]

Not really Michael but you can try to not "waste" energy.

[Michael]

Originally Posted by boret

Not really Michael but you can try to not "waste" energy.

yeah very true

[L98-Z]

I've decided to try the LEDs. Really just bored and it sounds like a fun project.

I'm not sure the best way to lay out the lights though.

[boret]

Great! I am looking forward to your build.
A limit on layout is the heatsink, that's one of the main things to figure out.
After that I guess it depends on the number of LEDs.

[L98-Z]

Originally Posted by boret

Great! I am looking forward to your build.
A limit on layout is the heatsink, that's one of the main things to figure out.
After that I guess it depends on the number of LEDs.

That's the thing I'm not sure about yet. I was thinking about buying multiple heatsinks and laying them out similar to how T5 reflectors were laid out.

Also thought of one large one and then maybe a few smaller ones, but there really isn't a good way to lay this out.

[boret]

How many LEDs are you thinking?

[L98-Z]

Originally Posted by boret

How many LEDs are you thinking?

Haven't determined that yet either. Still reading the thread. The general rule appears to be that everyone shoots over them dims them. I'd rather not do that. Obviously for the cost reasons.

I do like the ability to dim for color controls and light intensity though. So I have decided to do dimmable.

[L98-Z]

I'm currently thinking around 60-70 LEDs. Using four heat sinks, or panels, to try and cover a decent amount of area.

Two panels running down the sides of the tank. Probably use optics on them to make them a little more concentrated. Then two panels, one larger than the other, in the front/center of the tank.

[boret]

You could do something like this:



Total of 69 LEDs | 45 Whites | 24 Blues
The advantage to do rectangular shapes is that you can retrofit it in a different tank. If you do a weird/custom heat-sink shape you can only use it in the corner tank.

[boret]

I still think it is too much if you are not going to grow SPS.

[L98-Z]

Originally Posted by boret

I still think it is too much if you are not going to grow SPS.

There may be some SPS in there. I'm not doing any custom heatsinks. They will all be rectangles.

[reefscape15]

Kelso - Thanks for the support. Nice to hear!

Boret and L98-Z - Now you two have got me thinking about my canopy! Lots of LED's sounds like the way to go for me.

[L98-Z]

Originally Posted by boret

You could do something like this:



Total of 69 LEDs | 45 Whites | 24 Blues
The advantage to do rectangular shapes is that you can retrofit it in a different tank. If you do a weird/custom heat-sink shape you can only use it in the corner tank.

I'm either going that route or four heatsinks. Two down the sides, two down the middle. My current plans are the create a reef wall on the back of the tank, in which case, the two going down the sides will be directly above the reef wall.

[L98-Z]

I think I'm going to go the route of 4 heatsinks. Two going down the back sides and two going diagonal across the middle section. I'm looking at around 519 sq inches of heat sink coverage. Not sure how many LEDs that is yet, but the current plan is to make them dimmable as well.

[L98-Z]

Originally Posted by L98-Z

I think I'm going to go the route of 4 heatsinks. Two going down the back sides and two going diagonal across the middle section. I'm looking at around 519 sq inches of heat sink coverage. Not sure how many LEDs that is yet, but the current plan is to make them dimmable as well.

I'm looking at around $900 after all the drivers, heatsinks, and LEDs are purchased. Below is the general ideal on the heatsink layout.

[li mike]

Hi Guys,

MY name is MIke, I am new to this site and club. I have a 92 corner and cant get enough of it. I also have a 140 but all my time and $ have been going into the 92. I am very much looking forward to reading your threads and posting some myself.

This is a picture of my tank,

[Michael]

hi-mike thats beautiful, i love the open top as well and the light,have you got a sump under there? oh and welcome to the club

[boret]

li mike welcome to The Reef Central Corner Club Thread

L98-Z I think the "A" slabs are a bit of a waste. It all depends on the rock and coral placement though. In my tank I have very few thing that need light that close to the glass. The specimens placed on the sides grow inwards towards the center. If I look from the top my rock is like an inverse W. There is rock on both sides and in the center.

Remember that the lenses on the LEDs give you a 30 to 60 degree spread (depending on the lens you get). You might be better off doing a central square and placing 2 VHOs on the side. Make them all white for the LEDs and use the Super Actinic of the VHOs for Blue and fluorescent pop.

You can always throw in a few blues in the LEDs but I would do something like 90% White 10% Blue. I will make a drawing and post it to see if it makes more sense.