New seahorse tank

[120reefermadnes]

Hey, I just set up a 37gallon drilled w/overflow seahorse tank 10 days ago and today I just put in 2 yellow and 1 orange/red seahorses. I have an eshopps 2nd generation refugium rated up to a 125gal with an eshopps skimmer rated up to 75gal with dsb and cheato and a mag 7 return pump and about 40-50lbs of rock total between refuge and display tank I have 2 chromis that I used for cycleing that are still in the tank, should I remove them? And what else can I keep in there, I wanted to put maybe a snowflake eel, would that work? Open to all suggestions im new to the whole seahorse keeping.

[novahobbies]

You messin' with us? This ain't April 1st anymore, you know....

[rayjay]

Getting a lot of troll posts lately.

[120reefermadnes]

Wow thanks for all the help. What exactly makes you think im joking? This is the seahorse section of this forum correct? I just set up my sea horse tank and was looking for some insight from people with expieriance with seahorse tanks and this is wat I get? I thought this was a reputable site but im starting to beleive that the people on this site are more iterested in just socializing and not trying to better our hobby and what exactly is a troll post mr.reefcentral aka rayjay, inlighten me with your cool "premium member" lingo. Maybe one day ill be cool enough to socialize in the group you gues ride with I admire you so much you must have really nice tanks and must know so much about all that has to do with this hobby, you should really share some of that knowlage with the rest of us that havnt had such luck to be schooled the way you must have. Maybe its best for me to stay away from this forum im obviously no were near experianced enough for you guys and have way too many stupid questions. Sorry for waistin your time with my ignorance.

[Molehs]

You will have to forgive them for their mistake. Some of the things you list are typically not great ways of going about things and were likely interpreted as a joke.

1. cycling with fish is considered inhumane
2. 10 day cycle is possible, but very unlikely
3. chromis and eel would be bad tankmates

And sometimes it's draining on people who keep seahorses to see someone like you who likely did not get proper information before setting up to have seahorses. Aside from the tank itself there are lots of factors that will indicate your potential success.

1. tank temps should be below 74*F to reduce issues with bacteria
2. captive bread seahorses of the same breed to ensure that they have been trained to eat frozen mysis and won't have issues with worms or other pathogens brought in from being wild caught or tank raised
3. water volume appropriate to number of horses, 29g for the first 2 and an additional 15g per pair after.
4. No other fish tankmates until you can handle keeping the horses alive to a while
5. Seahorses are very messy eaters and have a short digestive system resulting in a very "dirty" tank, so you need to be able to keep up on that

Research is your friend to be successful with seahorses. They are not really "just fish." All to often people come here or other seahorse forums with problems because the LFS told them how to keep seahorses and it ends up in the horse/s dying and the person upset.

[rayjay]

Yes, if you are not trolling I apologize.
Unfortunately, you have either been given bad information from some source, or have not researched the keeping of seahorses.
However that can all be rectified.
First I would recommend removing the chromis as long term they are most likely to stress the seahorses to the point the seahorses may stop eating and perish.
Second, just to be sure about the cycle, I would be testing at least daily for ammonia and be prepared to remove the seahorses if ammonia appears.
The research could be started by reading the links at the bottom of "My Thoughts on Seahorse Keeping" that have been written by experienced seahorse keepers and an important piece by Dan Underwood of seahorsesource.com
The tankmates guide can give you insight into what may work for you, but it's not recommended to have tankmates until you've successfully kept the seahorses for a good period of time.
Also, with three seahorses in there now, by the guidlines, you are maxed for stock load.
As mentioned, seahorses make for very dirty tanks due to the fact that they are very selective on the pieces of food they eat, and, the fact that they masticate the food as they snick it up and pass food particulate matter through the gills into the water.
This nutrient bioload, while possibly feeding algae, will also feed nasty bacteria like vibriosis which may get out of control and negatively affect the sensitive seahorses. Keeping the temperature in a range of 68° to 74° is a means to help control this possibility, but some keepers succeed at higher temperatures, probably with higher due diligence to housekeeping.

[120reefermadnes]

Thank you for some real help. So now that ive relized my mistake how can go about fixing them? Should I remove the chromis? The water has been tested and all is well. I will do small water changes frequintly to help insure water quility wat else should I do?

[mtc1966]

what do you have for hitching posts? i like to use macro algaes and gorgonian coral myself

[Molehs]

Originally Posted by 120reefermadnes

Thank you for some real help. So now that ive relized my mistake how can go about fixing them? Should I remove the chromis? The water has been tested and all is well. I will do small water changes frequintly to help insure water quility wat else should I do?

Yes you should remove the chromis. For now, no other fish would make it easier to get the hang of keeping the horses doing well.

How big is your sump/refugium? 37g alone would likely be not enough water for 3 adult large horses.

Are the horses currently eating frozen mysis at least twice a day? Do you know what species and if they were captive bred?

Keep testing the water for a couple weeks at least to ensure things stay stable. Assuming you have a good sized sump and if in fact the tank is cycled then you might still be okay.

Pictures would help to make sure there aren't any obvious problems such as a heater that isn't shielded or power heads that a tail could get into or that there areas of low flow for the horses to be able to rest in or...etc.

We are all on your side and we just want to make sure you have the best chance to keeping happy and healthy horses.

Be prepared for your horses to change colors. Just because you bought red/orange/yellow doesn't mean they will stay that way. There are plenty of discussion on color and trying to change them but for the most part it's up to the horse.

[120reefermadnes]

What about a power head for circulation, or is it too dangerous for them maybe getting there tails stuck in the propeller

[Molehs]

Originally Posted by 120reefermadnes

What about a power head for circulation, or is it too dangerous for them maybe getting there tails stuck in the propeller

Depends. I've got a 1200 gph head running but there is no way for a tail to get near the propeller and there is a big enough surface area on the intake area that a horse won't get sucked on and stuck. Depending on the powerhead, people will often put a large pore sponge around the intake.

[120reefermadnes]

I have some dead branching sps I put in different places for hitching. Just removed the chris also. What do I use for circulation if I take out the powerhead?

[120reefermadnes]

My sump is the new eshopps 2nd generation refuge rated up to 125gal with a mag 7 return and an eshopps skimmer rated up to 75gallon. I think the sump/refuge holds about 20gal

[120reefermadnes]

I use my phone to access internet and havnt figured out how to transfer pics yet

[120reefermadnes]

Thank you gues for all the help keep it comin

[novahobbies]

Originally Posted by rayjay

Yes, if you are not trolling I apologize.
Unfortunately, you have either been given bad information from some source, or have not researched the keeping of seahorses.
However that can all be rectified.
First I would recommend removing the chromis as long term they are most likely to stress the seahorses to the point the seahorses may stop eating and perish.
Second, just to be sure about the cycle, I would be testing at least daily for ammonia and be prepared to remove the seahorses if ammonia appears.
The research could be started by reading the links at the bottom of "My Thoughts on Seahorse Keeping" that have been written by experienced seahorse keepers and an important piece by Dan Underwood of seahorsesource.com
The tankmates guide can give you insight into what may work for you, but it's not recommended to have tankmates until you've successfully kept the seahorses for a good period of time.
Also, with three seahorses in there now, by the guidlines, you are maxed for stock load.
As mentioned, seahorses make for very dirty tanks due to the fact that they are very selective on the pieces of food they eat, and, the fact that they masticate the food as they snick it up and pass food particulate matter through the gills into the water.
This nutrient bioload, while possibly feeding algae, will also feed nasty bacteria like vibriosis which may get out of control and negatively affect the sensitive seahorses. Keeping the temperature in a range of 68° to 74° is a means to help control this possibility, but some keepers succeed at higher temperatures, probably with higher due diligence to housekeeping.

Agreed on all counts here. I also apologize; I have been reading a lot of troll posts on a number of seahorse forums and, to be honest, yours fit the profile. You'll find that a lot of seahorse folks are sensitive to the critters we keep, and we tend to err on the side of caution more often than not.
In other words, we can bit a bit hard-headed.

In my opinion a 37g tank is a great started size for most horses. In fact it's the volume I have as well (37g tall cube). As mentioned, it's HIGHLY doubtful that the tank is fully cycled at 10 days, but if you keep some Prime on hand in case of ammonia emergencies and a backup plan to transfer the horses in case you see elevated (ANYTHING above 0!) ammonia readings, you might be able to work around this. The Chromis are peaceful in reef settings, but they're too fast and will outcompete the horses for food...so my vote is also to ditch the Chromis.

You will need to keep your water temp down. Thankfully in a 37g tank, assuming you are using PC or T5 lights, you can probably do this with an Ice Probe thermoelectric chiller instead of a "true" chiller. Much cheaper, and the cooler 72 degree water will go a looong way to keeping your pets healthy. Note that this will NOT work if you happen to be running a MH bulb...no chance of chilling that without a true chiller.

I know very little of the Eshopps refugium beyond what Google just told me. From the sounds of it, I would guess you have a great place there to grow some serious Chaeto algae and amphipods. If you don't have a sponge between the fuge and the return pump you should have a nice consistent supply of amphipods for the horses to snack on between meals, and of course the chaeto will do wonders for keeping your chemistry in check.

As others have mentioned, we'd really like to know what species of horse you bought. The descriptions "yellow and orange" really do nothing, since most species change colors to suite their mood and environment. It would also help to know if they're taking frozen mysis yet.

There are PLENTY of fish that are compatible with seahorses, but let's take things one at a time. Give yourself a few months with just the horses before you decide to mix things up with another animal. I think you'll find that the horses themselves are fascinating animals in their own right, and you'll wind up in front of the tank watching their antics for hours.

I look forward to seeing some pics!

[kudagirl]

Hi Reefermadnes,
First of all welcome to one of the best sites,re powerheads covers,i use the nets from the washing powders they fit nice and tight and are easily to wash when doing your water changes

[jck16]

I was reading the initial post and was thinking he actually has a good set-up, he just rushed things a bit. I've done soft cycles before meaning it'll take some time to get through the cycle but I've been able to preserve the majority of life (e.g. corals) on the rocks I've gotten. To get the seahorses safely through the cycle (because I am pretty sure your tank hasn't cycled yet), you need to pretty much do that.

First of all, run everything normally: water flow, sump, refugium, lights. Go ahead and feed the seahorses (make sure they're eating frozen MYSIS too, NOT brine shrimp. That's definitely critical! If they're not, you must order live mysis and/or amphipods. In fact, you should do that anyway because you will pollute the water a lot less. And the leftovers may be used to seed the fuge too). But the most important thing is to monitor your ammonia on a daily basis. If the ammonia levels rise to .5, you should do a water change until it's as close to 0 as possible. You must do this EVERY TIME you see it rise to .5. Eventually you'll see nitrites and you'll want to continue doing the testing and water changes. Once you see nitrates, your nitrogen cycle is mostly over. You should also perform good maintenance too during this time: replace the eshopps filter socks weekly, clean out the skimmer cup, etc.

Also, get an RO/DI unit if you haven't already and mix up a lot of saltwater...you may need to change even 100% of the water volume (including the sump) if the ammonia doesn't go down.

You can get through this, you just need patience. And take out those chromis now if you haven't already.

[120reefermadnes]

I put the cover that came with my mp40 thats on my 120 reef so now no wories about them getting cought in there

[120reefermadnes]

I have a 6 stage ro/di unit hooked up to float valve on sump for ato. Should I get a uv sterilizer or is it not needed? And im not sure the species is there any tell tail sign to look for?

[rayjay]

The place you purchased the seahorses from should be able to tell you what species they are.
As for UV, that depends on who you ask because there are proponents and opponents for with or without.
I don't use them and never have in my 18+ yrs of reefing.
Uv is only going to get the pelagic stages of pathogens and algae and not even all of them at that, so you will always have pathogens present.
The key is to keep the tank very clean so they pathogens don't get out of hand.
Keeping clean and keeping the seahorses stress free should be sufficient.
It is hard to identify a seahorse that you don't know where it comes from and until it is adult but very clear side profile shots UP CLOSE can help.
Just to show you how hard it can be, check out this Guide to Identification of Seahorses.
It will probably take some time to fully load because of the size of the file.
For me, it takes 3 to 5 minutes to fully load, depending on time of day.

[jck16]

Originally Posted by 120reefermadnes

I have a 6 stage ro/di unit hooked up to float valve on sump for ato.

Was that a response to my post? Because,while that's perfectly fine to have, that's not a substitute for a water change...

Also you're not answering the question people have been asking a number of times which is whether your seahorses are eating mysis or not. And whether they're raised from captivity or caught wild.

[120reefermadnes]

No not eating frozen mysis yet, I dnt know if wild or tank raised either. How do I get them to eat frozen mysis, the lfs that sold it to me was feeding them live brine and ghost shrimp to the bigger one.

[120reefermadnes]

I gues I jumped into this too quick, I was told they jusr need high water quility and I have an sps dominated 120 so im pretty familiar with keeping high quility tank water. Thats another thing ive always used natural sea water from right off the coast of south florida here and never had a problem does anyone else use sea water with their horses?

[mtc1966]

start mixing frozen mysis in with the live brine or any other live food you can get then slowly ween them off live food. good luck it may be tricky some take to frozen better then other from what i have read. i know of people here in CT that used sea water without trouble but not on seahorse tanks . just saying they didnt have seahorses not saying it cant be done.