Casper's health is declining

[melev]

Tank is medicated.

The very last 3/8" of Casper's tail seems rotted, and ready to drop off. I just read a post on our club's board stating their horse did the same, and they seemed to believe that was a good thing.

Both horses are released into the tank now.

[LisaD]

Marc,

You have been very busy! You're doing all the right things, hope it works out okay and that you can save Casper. Total rot of the tail is not good, but seahorses have been known to recover. A perusal of seahorse.org's Emergency forum has a lot of interesting (and often sad) cases.

Good luck!

Lisa

[melev]

Update: After adding the horses to the tank, I was about to leave to get the ghost shrimp. I looked in the tank and the Kuda was lying flat on the bottom of the tank. I stared hard, and it was breathing and its eyes were moving looking around a lot, but I panicked and called Dan to see what he'd advise.

pH was raised up to 7.95, since it was down to 7.1 once the medicine was added. Coincidence, perhaps, but it was too low. Alkalinity was around 6 dKH, so raising it up was safe.

I put the ghost shrimp in a large goldfish jar with RO/DI water, and opened up a Beta Glucin capsule and sprinkled in some of the powder for the shrimp to snack upon. Next I'll add an airstone. After the shrimp have had 1.5 hours to eat the vitamin, I'll put a few in the hospital tank. There are several sizes, and some seem too large to me but who knows...

[melev]

The Kuda is laying flat again. I dropped in 4 ghost shrimp, and watched. The Kuda scooted toward it and ate the whole thing in one bite! I figured it would hit it like a mantis and eat it in halves or something. Amazing.

Casper just sat there. I keep hoping this will all work out, but they aren't given me a lot of hope by their lack of activity.

[NanoLurker]

hang in there marc, i know it's hard and despite our efforts sometimes it's not enough, but don't lose hope. they can go real quiet on you when they're sick. they kind of retreat into themselves. i mentioned this to someone on the org but if you have any other animals you've probably noticed similar reactions. not much different from humans in a way, when you've got the flu what do you want to do? get up and move around? eat? it's not something i like doing but will actually be doing it tonight with two of my horses - tube feeding. you may want to read up on it

i've had pH drops with neo3 and was going to warn you about them but saw that you were sent NFP's stuff. i've never had that kind of drop with their meds, and i used the combo you're using just last month. strange. i don't know but maybe it's because you had problems adjusting the pH before you added the meds? just a thought anyhow.

[WILDTHING]

Marc, any updates? How are they today?

colleen

[melev]

Here's what I saw yesterday after the 100% water change and new medication.





The Kuda seemed to perk up a little, but not for very long. She'd lay flat and slide/glide toward a few ghost shrimp.


Ghost shrimp:


Then today, this is what I saw. They looked a little more normal:




As you can see in the final picture, Casper's tail looks pretty bleached to me. I don't know if that is a coating of the dust that the medicine that settles on the floor of the tank or not. I need to do a water change and dose the meds again.

Those are three dead ghost shrimp next to her.

[melev]

50% water change done. Meds dosed at 50% of prescribed rate (1/8 tsp Triple Sulfa; 3/4 tsp Neomycin).

Ghost shrimp aren't really going over all that well, but when I put in some thawed Hikari Mysis, both ate. I think I need to try feeding them a couple of times a day to keep their energy up.

They seemed to enjoy the flow caused by the water change, as they were swimming around quite a bit as I added .5 gal at a time to the tank.

Temp: 73F (water change was was 81F and I dropped it down with three icepacks.
pH: 7.95 until I added the meds, then it dropped to 7.5, so I added some baking soda to bring it up to 8 again.
Salinity: 1.0225

[WILDTHING]

geeze Marc, seeing that Kuda on her side like that must have made your heart skip at least a beat or two. It did mine. In that pic tho the underside of her tail looks .....discolored, kinda like its shriveling up, may be its just the photo?

Good news tho is that they are both still eating. I think your idea of several small feedings a day and removal of the uneaten food inbetween feedings is a good plan.

fingers and toes crossed for you and the guys.

colleen

[Manogr]

Marc what can I say ? I wish you that Casper and co will get better soon.... but I must say 2 important things here...

First of all congratulations....once again (I follow your site and reefcast for long) you proved that you are different! You face a difficult situation and immidiately you write it down and ask for advise! This is a lesson for all those egomaniacs out there that never say that they face a trouble and just recycle their fish and corals! Also the battle that you are giving to save your fishes is a lesson to the above mentioned fish-recyclers ! More than that this thread and your experience will help many others in the future...

Keep up the good work for all of us !

[melev]

Turning to others with more experience is what makes any hobbyist successful. Fortunately for me, I had most of the items I needed to set up the hospital tank quickly, rather than having to go out and buy everything. Of course, Walmart sells small freshwater tanks that have a number of necessary items for cheap. Petsmart and Petco probably have the same. Tank, light, heater, airpump and airstone, thermometer... that's pretty much all you need to quickly set up a temporary tank for sick fish.

Both seahorses seem to look better this evening. I'll try feeding them again in a bit. I found half a ghost shrimp in the tank, so one of the horses definitely got a mouthful.

[mjstech]

Hey Marc,
I am wondering why nobody has asked some questions.. Did/do you have a heater in your main sh tank? Do your have something covering the intake of pumps/powerheads? How about any 'stinging' corals that might be in the main tank? Did the 'tail rot' show up over time or in like 1 night?
I have my 3 female redi in a 29g also from ORA, I work at Petco as the fish specialist, that is our vendor for them. We have yet to have a single issue with them.
Here is a pic.


Anyway, good luck, and thanks for melevsreef.com

Mark

[melev]

The tank has a small credit card heater by Hydor that is made for 5g tanks or smaller. The only powerhead is a small square pump in the rear corner that is a MiniJet, and there is no way she could be hurt as the intake screens are very small.

There are the occasional aiptasia that I kill, but not as often as I should. And there is the Dendrophyllia (in the tubastrea family) that Casper ignores almost all of the time.

The problem with her tail occured over time, maybe a week or so. I didn't even realize there was a problem, until it was obvious.

[LisaD]

It is not uncommon for tail rot to show up without stinging, injury, heater burns, etc. It can appear to result from stressors such as too much flow, high nitrates, temperature spikes, or it can appear without obvious cause.

[JustDavidP]

I had an issue with one of my Reidi gals where a hermit crab latched onto her tail and HARD. It left an open wound which got infected fast. I was able to use some meds (from the list at the Org) and watch her closely. It took weeks for the whole thing to heal, but it worked. During the rehab time, she would hitch, alone, in a slow corner of the tank and just sway from side to side. ONLY if the foods were brought to her, would she eat. They are amazing creatures, and the constant oversight was worth it. She's my most productive female now, breeding every two weeks with her mate. She's still got a smallish black spot on her tail, but it is not raised, irritated or otherwise alarming.

Marc.. I wish you the best of luck. Let me know how things turn out. I have about 3 dozen juvi Reidi in my growout tanks. If need be, as a thank you for all that you've done for me over the years, I'll help you get back into the ponies

Dave

[shane 1111]

marc i am so sorry to hear about casper

[melev]

Dave, thank you for the offer.

Both horses ate this morning (Hikari mysis). I'm rethinking the tail of the seahorse situation. Casper's looks messy, for lack of a better word. I thought previously that the very tip had fallen off, but now I believe I had that mixed up with some waste (horse poop) that was on the bottom of the tank.

If the fish has a skeletal structure, then the bones would go to the end of the horse. The flesh over the end definitely doesn't look healthy nor normal, but perhaps it can be regenerated once this infection is reversed. That's my assumption at this point just by observation of the situation.

[todd2000]

Sorry to hear about Casper, I was just reading on your site about your pico tank, and thought I'de come check out the seahorse forum. Unfortunatly I can't really help much, but I wish you the best of luck, you seem to be doing everything you can. Hope it works out.

PS The reefcasts are great

[JustDavidP]

PS The reefcasts are great [/B]

Aren't they!? I'm subscribed to many different podcasts, and listen to them at differing times. Some, I listen to during my commute. Others play in the background at the office. Marc and Evan's get turned on and tuned in at night, at home, with a nice Stoli's Vodka in hand

I can almost taste the Cyclopeeze myself

Dave

[melev]

Okay, update again. I decided to put some acrylic on top of the tank to keep the saltspray down, and that helped quite a bit. However, in the meantime the tank seems to be leaking around the top trim I suppose, because I'm having to mop up a puddle on the counter.

The water or perhaps the glass gets cloudy, probably due to the medication. Both horses are scooting around, and I'm about to go feed them. I had intended to feed them several times a day, but didn't have time at all to do so yet today. I did it yesterday, and they were quick to eat each time.

I have to do yet another water change. Yay.

Yesterday, Ft Worth reached 81+ degrees, so I had the A/C on and the tank was 75F. Today, the high was 41F, and the tank is just above 71F. pH tends to stay around 7.85 or so.

[LisaD]

that they are still eating is a great sign. keep up the good work!

[melev]

Time for some updated pictures.

Each day I change 5g of water, keeping salinity at 1.021sg, and add the meds. Temp is 69F, pH 7.8 to 8.1 daily. They are eating mysis, but not voraciously. My ghost shrimp died because I never did add an airstone to their tank, but the horses didn't seem to want them. I think they were too large.

Here is Casper, sans much of a tail.






And the Kuda.






Their color is good, and there is poop to siphon out.

Lisa, my LFS got the wrong medicine in, but I showed him what you sent me. As soon as it arrives, I'll send you full bottles.

[LisaD]

Thanks Marc. If there is a fair amount left, you can just send me back what I sent you. Keep the meds from the fish store handy, you never know when you might need them.

Normally with tail rot as advanced as Casper's, they don't make it. That Casper is still alive, eating and looking improved is due to your hard work keeping up with the meds, water changes and water parameters. I hope they both make it. You gave them a good chance to do so.

[DanU]

That Casper is still alive, eating and looking improved is due to your hard work keeping up with the meds, water changes and water parameters.

Agreed! Hang in there!

Dan

[mcegelsk]

Come on Casper!