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07/12/2011, 11:45 AM | #51 | |
code monkey
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Your logic taken further says that an arsonist burning down a forest is ok, because trees were killed in the making of your home. |
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07/12/2011, 02:23 PM | #52 |
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From the standpoint of a fisheries biologist, any type of fishing needs to be done in a sustainable manner. Both from the standpoint of numbers extracted of a given species and fishing methods. Not to mention any waste should be minimized.
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Bill "LOL, well I have no brain apparently. " - dc (Debi) Current Tank Info: Far too many tanks according to my wife, LOL. |
07/12/2011, 03:27 PM | #53 |
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Many commerial fisherman at least within the US are coming to realize that maintaining the fisheries is not just good for the environment, but also their livelyhood. When, it comes to dollar figures fishing in a sustainable way means they have a job for themselves as well as possibly their children. The fishing regulations as what can be cought, when and how many is fairly stringent now, and if you are found in violation you get a heavy fine. So talking money, the fisherman has come to understand. I know similar regulations exists in most western/more modern countries. I am not sure there is any meaningful regulation in developing nations.
As for ornimental fish trade. Again, Hawaii and Florida are tightly regulated, as well as many of the Caribian Islands (Grand Cayman's fine is around $6000 US for damaging coral not even going into illegal harvesting). The harvesting problems again lies more with developing nations. |
07/13/2011, 12:38 PM | #54 |
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These post are DEEP and very informational .
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07/13/2011, 10:42 PM | #55 | |
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07/13/2011, 11:07 PM | #56 | |
SALTWATER since '73
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______________________________________ Jan. '11 TOTM Manhattan Reefs Current Tank Info: 500g & 200g acrylic DTs/2 separate reef systems |
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07/14/2011, 11:45 AM | #57 | |
Move Don
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And your ending paragraph is not a valid analogy. One use is constructive, the other is intentionally destructive. I said I don't want to see fish wasted but they are just fish. Some will die. Really, the only way to be completely out of responsibility for any of the fish death is to leave the hobby.
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Fish are nitrate factories. Remove them and watch your nitrates come down. Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef |
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07/14/2011, 11:47 AM | #58 | |
Move Don
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Fish are nitrate factories. Remove them and watch your nitrates come down. Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef |
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07/14/2011, 01:04 PM | #59 | |||
code monkey
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07/17/2011, 12:58 PM | #60 |
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My LFS only buys from a supplier that prides itself in using a "short supply chain". Ideally the fish change hands much fewer times. A lot of people dont know that wild caught fish dont have their water changed and arent fed from the time they are caught to the time they get to the wholesaler.
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07/19/2011, 10:23 AM | #61 |
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[QUOTE=organism;19022476]I usually catch all my fish and I know I'm fortunate to do so, but if I buy them at the store it's farmed only.
Wow farmed only...that is even worse and more harmful on the fish population and your health. http://www.marksdailyapple.com/salmo...-farm-vs-wild/ |
07/19/2011, 12:54 PM | #62 | |
code monkey
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Quote:
You're aware there's more than one species of farmed fish right? |
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07/19/2011, 02:36 PM | #63 | |
SALTWATER since '73
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Quote:
__________________
______________________________________ Jan. '11 TOTM Manhattan Reefs Current Tank Info: 500g & 200g acrylic DTs/2 separate reef systems |
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07/24/2011, 06:24 PM | #64 | |
Moved On
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...mother nature could give a dang about "intent" ... So I kinda shrug a lil when the cyber beatings continue for some poor soul who purchased a Morish Idol and kills it, yet 1/2 those same people buy Chilean Sea Bass or drive a SUV or do any number of "politically incorrect/ecologically insensitive things" |
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07/26/2011, 08:35 PM | #65 |
Still Learning
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In my 20 years in the military, I have travelled (on missions) to a lot of third world countries. These people live day to day. They are barely surviving. To tell them that if you bag some fish and send it out and your family will eat another day, they will do that in a heartbeat. They are not educated nor have the internet. They don't understand global ramifications of their actions. For these people, profit is not the motive. It broke my heart and many of my men broke down at times seeing how these people live. Some even offered their children to us to take back to the US.
Sorry to go off tangent that way guys. I just wanted to give a different perspective. I do agree on most of what you guys are saying about the profit motive and some of us being a little careless.
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GOT REEF! One tank short of a trial separation. Current Tank Info: 180 Gallon reef. Just starting to convert to mainly SPS. |
07/27/2011, 08:32 AM | #66 |
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My little additon, I guess. I was at the still LFS yesterday and asked about a bangaii cardinal. The salesperson was welll aware they are en endangered species. I asked if they were endangered why they carried the wild ones, when tank bred were availible. Her respose was the Goverment of Idonesia just not care. While great that they can be tank bread and therefor saved, I could not in good concious buy the wild version.
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07/27/2011, 12:53 PM | #67 | |
code monkey
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07/27/2011, 03:45 PM | #68 |
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One issue with wild caught versus aquacultured is that wild caught are often significantly cheaper. Another is that, especially with Bangaii, aquacultured are still not widely available, or plentiful.
Jeff Text mangled by iPhone spell check... |
08/03/2011, 03:56 PM | #69 | |
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Gresham _______________________________ Feeding your reef...one polyp at a time |
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08/11/2011, 12:28 AM | #70 |
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I raised clownfish for several months, I wasn't very good at it but in the end probably successfully raised about 50 of them from egg to lfs sellable sized.
Some of them are still alive and well among my club members. Others were probably dead within a week (people didn't tell me what happened - i just knew). So long story short - captive breeding is the way to go. Support the folks who go thru the effort - it's not easy (in my opinion) but I felt truly rewarded in knowing (or really hoping) that possibly 50 wild clownfish were not required to be taken. The clowns are still breeding so when time permits - perhaps more will be raised.
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Phil NJ reefers club Current Tank Info: 120 RR Mixed Reef, Custom 40G sump, started Nov 2008. "Are you suggesting that coconuts migrate?" |
01/12/2012, 06:45 PM | #71 |
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how much cheaper are corals and fish when fish store buy them from wholesalers and is it possible for a hobbiest to buy from them if the facility is near?
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01/13/2012, 10:49 AM | #72 | |
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Bill "LOL, well I have no brain apparently. " - dc (Debi) Current Tank Info: Far too many tanks according to my wife, LOL. |
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01/13/2012, 12:40 PM | #73 |
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Bill is correct- when I bought my shop- I had to take all of the paperwork and fotos- They even called the former owner of the store to be sure. There were some wiseguys that worked for another store that would sneak to the wholsaler for themselves. When they were caught, the wholsaler contacted the state and federal taxing bodies- as well as the dept of agriculture. Lets just say the fines and having- Everything in aquarium related siezed, was much more of a loss than their savings and the fish and coral.
WHo cries for the pollack -great line. When people quite putting values on life- A tang is more valuble than a cod- then maybe there can be a real discussion- but the fact remains- all fish removed from the ocean are considered dead by the ocean. ANd the fact that if only 10% live- it higher than food fish. Concious does not imply dominion-and only makes being hypocritical easier. |
01/13/2012, 05:50 PM | #74 |
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first for give my spelling an my . , but i must must say .My best friend (like a brother)is an importer does about 50 to 60 boxes a week fish an coral .An if that iz what is going on where that are geting there fish from is apoling !!!!!! nothing like that comes from his shippers NOTHING that is wrong there sites permit should be revoked. an would love to know who there shipper is .I have helped him deliver an accliimate tens of thousands of fish an never ever do thay come in light on water this is my cell 631394 8187 I can set thing motion to get them another shipper an drop the doa rate to about 10 % or less WHAT THAY ARE DOING IS JUST WRONG
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01/13/2012, 06:01 PM | #75 | |
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