Reef Central Online Community

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > General Interest Forums > Reef Discussion
Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

User Tag List

Reply
Thread Tools
Unread 11/20/2017, 05:48 PM   #1
Coffeeinbed
Registered Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 182
DIY Food - Freezing - Nutritional decay over time

Hi all,

Q) If you freeze DIY food mix (shellfish,squid etc) - at the point of freezing it's at 100% of it's nutritional/vitamin value.

As it sits - frozen - what is the decay curve to 0% nutritional value?


Coffeeinbed is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11/20/2017, 05:53 PM   #2
billdogg
Registered Member
 
billdogg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Grove City, Ohio
Posts: 10,806
Although there are many variables, I would treat it just like you would human food.


__________________
I'll try to be nice if you try to be smarter!
I can't help that I grow older, but you can't make me grow up!

Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef with 40b sump, RO 150 skimmer, AI Sol Blue x 2, and a 60g Frag Tank with 100g rubbermaid sump. 2 x Kessil A360w lights, BM curve 5 skimmer
billdogg is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11/20/2017, 11:17 PM   #3
WVfishguy
Registered Member
 
WVfishguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Huntington, WV
Posts: 677
If frozen quickly, frozen food retains almost all nutrients. An example is frozen vegetables you buy at the market; they are frozen so quickly the nutrition is basically the same as fresh vegetables.
If you keep the food frozen solid, it will retain nutrients. The secret is quick freezing and making darn sure it is sealed well. Do not let food get freezer burn. I store everything in very thick ml. fish bags from Angels Plus. As long as its frozen it will stay viable.
I use the same technique for vegetables from my garden; We eat two and three-year-old frozen corn which tastes like it was harvested yesterday.
While I had my aquarium service, I made all food for my salt water customers. I would not let them used processed food for FOR SALT WATER FISH.
Many times I have seen frozen food at LFS which had obviously been thawed and refrozen. It was a pain in the rear to make my own, but it paid off in the long run. I never saw disease related to lack of nutrients or spoiled food, the fish looked good, and I knew all food was fresh and never thawed and refrozen. I used squid-based (whole squid) frozen mash with spirulina, blue algae and nori for veggies and clams, scallops, fish oil etc. for protein (and enzymes, which heat destroys).
I used to buy fish with HLLE at a discount from the LFS, feed them my food for a few weeks, and take them to customers when they healed.


WVfishguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11/20/2017, 11:38 PM   #4
Subsea
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 1,882
Quote:
Originally Posted by WVfishguy View Post
If frozen quickly, frozen food retains almost all nutrients. An example is frozen vegetables you buy at the market; they are frozen so quickly the nutrition is basically the same as fresh vegetables.
If you keep the food frozen solid, it will retain nutrients. The secret is quick freezing and making darn sure it is sealed well. Do not let food get freezer burn. I store everything in very thick ml. fish bags from Angels Plus. As long as its frozen it will stay viable.
I use the same technique for vegetables from my garden; We eat two and three-year-old frozen corn which tastes like it was harvested yesterday.
While I had my aquarium service, I made all food for my salt water customers. I would not let them used processed food for FOR SALT WATER FISH.
Many times I have seen frozen food at LFS which had obviously been thawed and refrozen. It was a pain in the rear to make my own, but it paid off in the long run. I never saw disease related to lack of nutrients or spoiled food, the fish looked good, and I knew all food was fresh and never thawed and refrozen. I used squid-based (whole squid) frozen mash with spirulina, blue algae and nori for veggies and clams, scallops, fish oil etc. for protein (and enzymes, which heat destroys).
I used to buy fish with HLLE at a discount from the LFS, feed them my food for a few weeks, and take them to customers when they healed.
I recall PaulB saying that HLLE is not a disease but it is a symptom of improper nutrition. In addition to the nutritional value, there is a very important component of fish immune system probiotics that is missing when frozen. Live gut bacteria provides fish an immune system boost. More than that, filter feeders “fly their feathers” when live clam juice is in the tank.


__________________
Laissez les bons temps rouler,
Patrick Castille

Current Tank Info: 10,000G. Greenhouse Macro Growout
Subsea is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11/21/2017, 12:04 AM   #5
Jamie1210
Registered Member
 
Jamie1210's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Alhambra, CA
Posts: 1,733
Quote:
Originally Posted by WVfishguy View Post
If frozen quickly, frozen food retains almost all nutrients. An example is frozen vegetables you buy at the market; they are frozen so quickly the nutrition is basically the same as fresh vegetables.
If you keep the food frozen solid, it will retain nutrients. The secret is quick freezing and making darn sure it is sealed well. Do not let food get freezer burn. I store everything in very thick ml. fish bags from Angels Plus. As long as its frozen it will stay viable.
I use the same technique for vegetables from my garden; We eat two and three-year-old frozen corn which tastes like it was harvested yesterday.
While I had my aquarium service, I made all food for my salt water customers. I would not let them used processed food for FOR SALT WATER FISH.
Many times I have seen frozen food at LFS which had obviously been thawed and refrozen. It was a pain in the rear to make my own, but it paid off in the long run. I never saw disease related to lack of nutrients or spoiled food, the fish looked good, and I knew all food was fresh and never thawed and refrozen. I used squid-based (whole squid) frozen mash with spirulina, blue algae and nori for veggies and clams, scallops, fish oil etc. for protein (and enzymes, which heat destroys).
I used to buy fish with HLLE at a discount from the LFS, feed them my food for a few weeks, and take them to customers when they healed.
Very interesting. How does the average person go about the fast freezing process? Did you use liquid nitrogen? (Unfortunately not easily accessible to most)

Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk


Jamie1210 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11/21/2017, 01:07 AM   #6
Coffeeinbed
Registered Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 182
Quote:
(and enzymes, which heat destroys).
Very interesting. I was told to bring any natural seafood to a boil - thus preventing unwanted and harmful/unknown bacteria loose in the water.

I always boil the frozen seafood mix that I get from Asian stores (cuttlefish,squid,clams,shrimp,muscles in a bag). Then put in food processor, then freeze.

I guess fresh is the only way to go?

Where do I get blue algae and fish oil?



Last edited by Coffeeinbed; 11/21/2017 at 01:17 AM.
Coffeeinbed is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11/21/2017, 06:01 AM   #7
salty joe
Registered Member
 
salty joe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: medina, ohio
Posts: 2,419
I lifted this off the site that can't be mentioned. Just wondering if adding preservatives might be good practice.

Citric acid (to acidify-- most bacteria we are worried about do not reproduce under a pH of 4.5-- and as an antioxidant): .5% by weight

Ascorbic acid (vitamine C, for stability): .5% I use pills and grind them because it is cheap and easy to measure.

Calcium Proprionate (Mold inhibiter): .1% (may want to cut this in half or more)

Sorbic Acid (mold, yeast, fungi): .1% (may want to cut thins in half or more)


__________________
Time to roll the dice.
salty joe is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11/21/2017, 09:16 PM   #8
shaginwagon13
Chartered Accountant
 
shaginwagon13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 2,219
Tagging along


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


__________________
- Shaginwagon -

Current Tank Info: 550 Gallon SPS Reef l 200 Gallon Sump l Skimmer: Vertex Alpha 250 l Return Pump: Reeflo Hammerhead l Tank Circulation: (2) Maxspect Gyre XF280 l Lighting: (3) 400w Halides & (3) AI Hydra 52 HD
shaginwagon13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11/21/2017, 09:38 PM   #9
WVfishguy
Registered Member
 
WVfishguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Huntington, WV
Posts: 677
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coffeeinbed View Post
Very interesting. I was told to bring any natural seafood to a boil - thus preventing unwanted and harmful/unknown bacteria loose in the water.

I always boil the frozen seafood mix that I get from Asian stores (cuttlefish,squid,clams,shrimp,muscles in a bag). Then put in food processor, then freeze.

I guess fresh is the only way to go?

Where do I get blue algae and fish oil?
OMG! By heating the seafood, you destroy vitamins and needed enzymes. You are taking good, whole food, and processing it, making it into junk food.

• Heat is the enemy of nutrients. I used to chew out my freshwater customers for keeping pelleted/flaked fish food on top of the aquarium lights. Heat destroys nutrients - the fish can starve with a full belly!

• In the "wild," ALL food is raw.

• As long as the food has never been thawed, you don't have to worry about bacteria. It can't grow while frozen. And, actually, it's not the bacteria which causes the problems, but the waste products from the bacteria. That's what causes food poisoning in people - bacteria poop.

• I've used UNPROCESSED and RAW fish foods for decades with great success. A big reason we (humans) have health issues is because of processed food. Our dogs and cats don't live as long as they should because we feed processed food - there's currently a strong movement towards feeding raw meats to dogs and cats. Canned (processed) reptile food is known to cause fatal complications. Processed food is bad food. Show me a professional bodybuilder who eats pizza and hot dogs.

• When you add preservatives to ANY FOOD, you are making processed food. Preservatives are a very bad idea. The only good preservative is freezing (freeze drying is a close second.).

• Any decent home freezer unit freezes food quickly enough to prevent bacteria production. Just wrap it well and pop it in the freezer - no need for liquid nitrogen or anything fancy.

• You can buy spirulina, blue algae, garlic and many other wonderful foods at any good health food store. Just open the capsules, and pour the contents in the blender with the rest of the mash. No need to add vitamins - the nutrients are already there. BTW - I quit using Selcon because I found fish oils at the health food store which were much more nutritious and a fraction of the price.

We've been brain washed into believing processed food is acceptable, whether it's for our us, our children or our pets. Not so. Even when I was a preteen, I spent hours with a home-made net (Mom's worn out pantyhose and a bent clothed hanger) in the woods collecting daphnia, mosquito larvae and what-have you for my fish. I'm now in my 60's and I still use raw food every chance I get.


WVfishguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11/22/2017, 03:40 AM   #10
Coffeeinbed
Registered Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 182
Quote:
You can buy spirulina, blue algae, garlic and many other wonderful foods at any good health food store. Just open the capsules, and pour the contents in the blender with the rest of the mash. No need to add vitamins - the nutrients are already there. BTW - I quit using Selcon because I found fish oils at the health food store which were much more nutritious and a fraction of the price.
Thanks for all the information ,very helpful.

You mentioned earlier that you had a special formula for HLLE recovery.

Do you have the ingredients?

Also, do you use binders or thickening gels such as Pectin since the mash is soupy and the algae is in powder form....


Coffeeinbed is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11/22/2017, 04:50 PM   #11
WVfishguy
Registered Member
 
WVfishguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Huntington, WV
Posts: 677
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coffeeinbed View Post
Thanks for all the information ,very helpful.

You mentioned earlier that you had a special formula for HLLE recovery.

Do you have the ingredients?

Also, do you use binders or thickening gels such as Pectin since the mash is soupy and the algae is in powder form....
The fish which had HLLE had been previously been fed dry foods. I simply fed them the same food I sold to my customers. Nothing special - squid, clams, scallops, some shrimp, (the fishes least favorite!) nori et al.

I used no binders. The powdered algae stuck to the gooey seafood. The squid turned green when dusted with spirulina. I recommend BRIEFLY placing this food in a net and running water over this stuff to get some of the liquids off, especially if you have invertebrates.

I usually had to turn off the skimmer for 30 minutes or so, or it would foam like crazy. Of course, with FOWLER tanks it won't matter.

Fish get huge this way. I eventually took the fish from my FOWLER to a LFS, and the owner about had a cow over how large and beefy they were.

You sure don't need to go through the trouble I went through. You can buy a can of oysters, freeze 'em and chop them up, live black mussels, or simply chop up frozen New Zealand squid (the kid at the store didn't know what I was talking about until I told him a wanted calamari.... ).

The point is, any raw seafood beats dry food.


WVfishguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:40 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2024 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright ©1999-2022
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.