Your thoughts, suggestions and care tips for Flower pot and Elegance corals

vijaym85 · 02/27/2007, 11:08 PM

The Catalaphyllia jardinei and Goniopora corals are perhaps two of my favorite corals, but after doing research on both species it appears quite evident that there is a widespread concern regarding their mortality in the home aquarium. Both species have their share of success stories but still countless others seem to perish prematurely. Many indiviualds seem to make the claim that the Elegance was once a hardy coral but recently has become susceptable to disease which manifests itself quite rapidly, culminating in my personal experince with the coral pinching in followed by rapid tissue deterioration. I don't know as much about the Goniopora's sequence of degredation expect for the fact that they seem to require pristine water to survive and seem to die from the base up. What is true of both corals is their unexpected and untimly passing. If you don't mind can you please shed some light on these corals and your thoughts on their care and advanced needs in the home aquarium.
The Elegance species you have displayed in the diver's den are remarkably beautiful and I certainly would love to know how you have been able to keep them that way.

Thanks in advance for passing on your knowledge and expertise!
Has there ever been any successfull captive raised Elegance, I belive I have seen captive raised Goniopora but not Elegance.

Thank you!

DFS · 02/28/2007, 11:35 AM

vijaym85,

The health of the corals we care for is of the utmost importance to us here at Drs. Foster and Smithâ€™s Aquaculture Coral Facility. We do offer Elegance, Red Goniopora, as well as the Purple/Blue Goniopora for sale on the Divers Den section of the LiveAquaria.com web site.

Elegance Coral (Catalaphyllia jardinei)

Elegance corals are exported from Jakarta Indonesia and used to be a very easy coral to maintain in a reef aquarium in the 90â€™s. In 2003 I believe, both Julian Sprung and Eric Borneman had identified a bacterial infection that manifested itself in exporter holding tanks that cause Catalaphyllia to recede and eventually perish in the home aquarium. This bacteria seems to affect Blastomussa spp., Nemanzophyllia spp., and even Euphyllia spp. to some extent.

We have been fortunate enough to work with Julian Sprung over the last year on a way to eliminate this bacterial infection on Catalaphyllia jardinei. Through testing, evaluation, and feedback from our coral farm, and others in the aquarium industry, Julianâ€™s company Two Little Fishes is releasing this product to the general public. Next month we will have available for sale this new product called ReVive Coral Cleaner. This liquid surface cleaner is based on natural plant extracts and combats this problem that is currently affecting these specific stony corals. The product is administered as a dip, and has proven itself to be affective. Drs. Foster and Smithâ€™s Aquaculture coral facility also utilizes other dips for these corals. Melafix manufactured by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals is another remedy that has worked well for us here at our facility. This product is composed of natural plant extracts as well, and is used at a rate of 15ml per gallon of seawater as a bath. We dip the affected coral in the bath for 5 minutes, and swirl the coral in the bath during the 5 minute time frame.

The Australian government has just recently issued CITES permits for the limited collection and export of corals from that area. Catalaphyllia seem to be one of the more common corals exported from this regain. These corals are more expensive that their Jakarta collected counterparts, but seem to be unaffected by this bacterial infection at their export station. Australian Elegance have done very well at our facility so far, and we have sold a hand full on the Divers Den section of the site.

Flower Pot Coral (Goniopora spp.)

Goniopora spp. vary considerably by individual species on their relative adaptability to aquarium life. I have personally maintained the â€œRed Gonioporaâ€ from Jakarta in my office aquarium for well over 4 years with little to no additional effort. The Purple/Blue variant of this species in my experience does equally as well and in many different types of aquariums.

Charles Veron has identified 24 species of Goniopora, and of them, 19 of these identified species could potentially be harvested from legal collection areas from Bali, Jakarta, Fiji, Tonga, Vanuatu, and the Solomon Islands. The most commonly exported coral (which is the most difficult for people to maintain) is the Jakarta Green Flower Pot Coral (Goniopora stokesi).

I was fortunate enough to sit in the presentation by John Kelly at IMAC 2006 where he explained some of the reasons that most aquarists have a difficult time with this species of coral. In a nutshell, he explained that he has had long term success with a variety of species of Goniopora by properly adapting this coral to the aquarium lighting and flow, and target feeding the coral. If you are thinking about purchasing Goniopora stokesi, please make sure to slowly adjust this coral to your specific lighting, and target feed the coral daily.

In response to your question on captive raised Elegance, to the best of my knowledge this has not been successfully accomplished YET. We are working on techniques here to expand our selection of stony corals, and perhaps someday we can add this to our extensive offerings of captive grown corals. Thank you for your questions and concerns.

Sincerely,
Kevin Kohen
Director of LiveAquaria
Drs. Foster and Smith

vijaym85 · 02/28/2007, 03:40 PM

Thank you for that detailed and interesting response!
I actually currently own the Hardest species of Goniopora you
eluded to, and so far so good. I target feed every night. Nice extension when the current is a bit diminished.

As for the Elegance is there any special equipment requirements or tank specs which you would consider to be helpful in seeing them thrive? As I would like to add one. I have a sand substrate which I heard is ideal for their sensitive tissue. I use a Tunze wavebox, phospahte remover, 400w 12K MH, skimmer, LR and I run Phoshate remover and carbon. Water is RODI and I use IO salt. I dose using B Ionic and add trace elemsnts and Amnio acids. Do you think I need to add anything else, or can I attempt one?

One last question (with a few parts)

Is the disease that is affecting Elegance corals and Euphyllia corals the same as the term coined " Brown Jelly Disease"? I have seen first-hand a few instances of this slimy substance on Frogspawn and Torch corals, which untimately leads to their demise; Or is "Brown Jelly" a unique infection on its own? One of the things I am curious about is if Brown Jelly is a Bacterial or viral infection or if it is a natural response due to poor water or lighting parameters? Also is it contageous and easily spread throughout the tank?

Thanks again for responding and sorry for making you type so much!!

Your help and time is greatly appreciated, from one Aquarist to another, Thanks very much!

DFS · 02/28/2007, 06:11 PM

vijaym85,

Elegance Coral (Catalaphyllia jardinei) are normally collected in sandy areas where there is very nutrient rich, turbid water. Visibility is often times poor to fair, so I would try and take your time adjusting this species to intense lighting. Since you currently use 400 watt halides, I would suggest keeping the coral in the sand bed as you have suggested, and in the corners away form the direct beam of the halide lamp, or better yet, under an overhang initially. For the first few weeks, I would also suggest placing some egg crate lighting grid over that side of the tank in order to provide some additional shade for the Elegance.

As long as you dose B Ionic in small quantities frequently, while keeping a good eye on your Alkalinity level to avoid rapid fluctuations, I would not recommend adding any other supplements to the aquarium. This is assuming that you perform frequent, small water changes often in order to keep the water chemistry stable.

Elegance as well as other LPS corals seems to prefer aquariums that have some nutrients in the water. From my experience reef keepers that maintain very low nutrient reefs when keeping Acropora spp. have a more difficult time in maintaining LPS corals in the same aquarium. This is especially true for aquarists that over skim, underfeed, and suffer from bleached or pale SPS corals.

Brown Jelly Disease is actually a protozoan that affects most corals, but is seen more often on Euphyllia, Catalaphyllia, Nemanzophyllia, Galaxea, and even Xenia spp. This protozoan is found on corals and even clams in their natural habitat, but healthy corals will normally not succumb to infection. If a coral is stressed severely by elevated water temperatures, mishandling, poor water conditions, or direct contact with other corals, the attacking protozoan will reproduce rapidly and jeopardize the health of the coral in a very short period of time. There are several genera of protozoan and ciliated parasites that feed on coral tissue, and all of them can spread to other corals in the home aquarium if they can find other stresses hosts. The best way to avoid the introduction of any pest or disease causing organism is to quarantine all aquatic life before placing these species in your display aquarium. If you do find that a coral in your care is suffering from Brown Jelly Disease, Iodine dips will sometimes help, as well as a freshwater bath for 1-2 minutes using RO water of the same temperature and pH.

I hope that I have answered your questions and best of luck with your aquarium.

Happy Reefing!
Kevin Kohen
Director of LiveAquaria
Drs. Foster and Smith

oxbeard · 02/28/2007, 08:10 PM

Absolutely awesome thread!!!

I've been very interested in Elegance as well. Have tried once and was ultimately unsuccessful, been trying to learn more about them before trying again. This has definitely been very educational.

vijaym85 · 03/15/2007, 08:04 PM

Hi again, I was interested in placing the Elegance coral in the cave I have pictured for you to check out. It gets light and a good amount of shade. Is this an ok spot. Sorry the photos are not great quality, my newer cam is not working out so good so I had revert to the old stuff. Pics don't do justice to the tank.
By the way the last 2 pics are of a Goni. I have. Does it appear healthy? It needs very mild current or it closes up very fast. I target feed daily.

Thanks again for your continued help and support, much appreciated.

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/showp...t=1&thecat=500

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/showp...t=1&thecat=500

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/showp...t=1&thecat=500

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/showp...t=1&thecat=500

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/showp...t=1&thecat=500

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/showp...t=1&thecat=500

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/showp...t=1&thecat=500

vijaym85 · 03/15/2007, 10:22 PM

By the way the cave is about 9 inches wide and 6-7 inches deep.
No direct light simply indirect.

DFS · 03/16/2007, 08:12 AM

vijaym85,

The cave that you have worked in the middle of the aquarium should be ideal for a Catalaphyllia jardinei as long as there is ample flow for the coral. Once acclimated to that location you can move it forward after a month or so to provide a little more light if need be.

The Goniopora stokesi appears to be in good condition with nice polyp extension and sharp tips to each tentacle.

I am not sure if that is a Galaxea spp. behind the Goniopora, in front of your built in overflow. If so I would recommend moving the Galaxea to the bottom corner of the aquarium. Galaxea spp. have incredibly long sweeper tentacles at night, and will sting corals that are in close proximity to them. Some Galaxea spp. can produce sweeper tentacles that extend 4-6" at night.

Thank you for your questions and as always Happy Reefing!

Kevin Kohen
Director of LiveAquaria
Drs. Foster and Smith

vijaym85 · 03/16/2007, 05:23 PM

Hey Kevin thank you once again for your help and for your warning of caution. It appears the pics were bad enough to make my rather harmless GSP appear to be Galaxia. I know all to well about those sweepers.

My galaxia is on the left of the cave

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/showp...t=1&thecat=500

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/showp...t=1&thecat=500

By the way here is a better shot of the Goni, can you tell its health better from these pics?
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/showp...t=1&thecat=500

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/showp...t=1&thecat=500

Sorry to annoy you with all these questions... Just wan't to be sure I am doing everything to the best of my ability and I greatly value your expert opinion! Thank you again for everything!

DFS · 03/16/2007, 06:07 PM

vijaym85,

It was very difficult to tell what that was by your prefilter box with the blurry pic, but I thought if it were the case I should let you know. Your green star polyps as you have stated are pretty harmless until they try and take over your tank.

The Goniopora appears to be doing really well from the images you provided. Good polyp extension and very elongated tentacles which is a sign of a healthy specimen. A little more flow may help to keep the coral in check from extending its polyps and inflating to the size of a basketball.

Keep up the feeding regime; your aquarium looks like its coming along nicely. Have a good one!

Kevin

02/27/2007, 11:08 PM	#1
vijaym85 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Queens NYC Posts: 1,296	Your thoughts, suggestions and care tips for Flower pot and Elegance corals The Catalaphyllia jardinei and Goniopora corals are perhaps two of my favorite corals, but after doing research on both species it appears quite evident that there is a widespread concern regarding their mortality in the home aquarium. Both species have their share of success stories but still countless others seem to perish prematurely. Many indiviualds seem to make the claim that the Elegance was once a hardy coral but recently has become susceptable to disease which manifests itself quite rapidly, culminating in my personal experince with the coral pinching in followed by rapid tissue deterioration. I don't know as much about the Goniopora's sequence of degredation expect for the fact that they seem to require pristine water to survive and seem to die from the base up. What is true of both corals is their unexpected and untimly passing. If you don't mind can you please shed some light on these corals and your thoughts on their care and advanced needs in the home aquarium. The Elegance species you have displayed in the diver's den are remarkably beautiful and I certainly would love to know how you have been able to keep them that way. Thanks in advance for passing on your knowledge and expertise! Has there ever been any successfull captive raised Elegance, I belive I have seen captive raised Goniopora but not Elegance. Thank you! Last edited by vijaym85; 02/27/2007 at 11:32 PM.

02/28/2007, 11:35 AM	#2
DFS RC Sponsor Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Rhinelander, WI Posts: 593	vijaym85, The health of the corals we care for is of the utmost importance to us here at Drs. Foster and Smithâ€™s Aquaculture Coral Facility. We do offer Elegance, Red Goniopora, as well as the Purple/Blue Goniopora for sale on the Divers Den section of the LiveAquaria.com web site. Elegance Coral (Catalaphyllia jardinei) Elegance corals are exported from Jakarta Indonesia and used to be a very easy coral to maintain in a reef aquarium in the 90â€™s. In 2003 I believe, both Julian Sprung and Eric Borneman had identified a bacterial infection that manifested itself in exporter holding tanks that cause Catalaphyllia to recede and eventually perish in the home aquarium. This bacteria seems to affect Blastomussa spp., Nemanzophyllia spp., and even Euphyllia spp. to some extent. We have been fortunate enough to work with Julian Sprung over the last year on a way to eliminate this bacterial infection on Catalaphyllia jardinei. Through testing, evaluation, and feedback from our coral farm, and others in the aquarium industry, Julianâ€™s company Two Little Fishes is releasing this product to the general public. Next month we will have available for sale this new product called ReVive Coral Cleaner. This liquid surface cleaner is based on natural plant extracts and combats this problem that is currently affecting these specific stony corals. The product is administered as a dip, and has proven itself to be affective. Drs. Foster and Smithâ€™s Aquaculture coral facility also utilizes other dips for these corals. Melafix manufactured by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals is another remedy that has worked well for us here at our facility. This product is composed of natural plant extracts as well, and is used at a rate of 15ml per gallon of seawater as a bath. We dip the affected coral in the bath for 5 minutes, and swirl the coral in the bath during the 5 minute time frame. The Australian government has just recently issued CITES permits for the limited collection and export of corals from that area. Catalaphyllia seem to be one of the more common corals exported from this regain. These corals are more expensive that their Jakarta collected counterparts, but seem to be unaffected by this bacterial infection at their export station. Australian Elegance have done very well at our facility so far, and we have sold a hand full on the Divers Den section of the site. Flower Pot Coral (Goniopora spp.) Goniopora spp. vary considerably by individual species on their relative adaptability to aquarium life. I have personally maintained the â€œRed Gonioporaâ€ from Jakarta in my office aquarium for well over 4 years with little to no additional effort. The Purple/Blue variant of this species in my experience does equally as well and in many different types of aquariums. Charles Veron has identified 24 species of Goniopora, and of them, 19 of these identified species could potentially be harvested from legal collection areas from Bali, Jakarta, Fiji, Tonga, Vanuatu, and the Solomon Islands. The most commonly exported coral (which is the most difficult for people to maintain) is the Jakarta Green Flower Pot Coral (Goniopora stokesi). I was fortunate enough to sit in the presentation by John Kelly at IMAC 2006 where he explained some of the reasons that most aquarists have a difficult time with this species of coral. In a nutshell, he explained that he has had long term success with a variety of species of Goniopora by properly adapting this coral to the aquarium lighting and flow, and target feeding the coral. If you are thinking about purchasing Goniopora stokesi, please make sure to slowly adjust this coral to your specific lighting, and target feed the coral daily. In response to your question on captive raised Elegance, to the best of my knowledge this has not been successfully accomplished YET. We are working on techniques here to expand our selection of stony corals, and perhaps someday we can add this to our extensive offerings of captive grown corals. Thank you for your questions and concerns. Sincerely, Kevin Kohen Director of LiveAquaria Drs. Foster and Smith Last edited by DFS; 02/28/2007 at 12:05 PM.

02/28/2007, 08:10 PM	#5
oxbeard Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 80	Absolutely awesome thread!!! I've been very interested in Elegance as well. Have tried once and was ultimately unsuccessful, been trying to learn more about them before trying again. This has definitely been very educational. __________________ You seem somewhat familiar. Have I threatened you before? Current Tank Info: not enough, planning for 500g expansion

03/15/2007, 08:04 PM	#6
vijaym85 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Queens NYC Posts: 1,296	Hi again, I was interested in placing the Elegance coral in the cave I have pictured for you to check out. It gets light and a good amount of shade. Is this an ok spot. Sorry the photos are not great quality, my newer cam is not working out so good so I had revert to the old stuff. Pics don't do justice to the tank. By the way the last 2 pics are of a Goni. I have. Does it appear healthy? It needs very mild current or it closes up very fast. I target feed daily. Thanks again for your continued help and support, much appreciated. http://reefcentral.com/gallery/showp...t=1&thecat=500 http://reefcentral.com/gallery/showp...t=1&thecat=500 http://reefcentral.com/gallery/showp...t=1&thecat=500 http://reefcentral.com/gallery/showp...t=1&thecat=500 http://reefcentral.com/gallery/showp...t=1&thecat=500 http://reefcentral.com/gallery/showp...t=1&thecat=500 http://reefcentral.com/gallery/showp...t=1&thecat=500 Last edited by vijaym85; 03/15/2007 at 09:02 PM.

02/28/2007, 03:40 PM	#3
vijaym85 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Queens NYC Posts: 1,296	Thank you for that detailed and interesting response! I actually currently own the Hardest species of Goniopora you eluded to, and so far so good. I target feed every night. Nice extension when the current is a bit diminished. As for the Elegance is there any special equipment requirements or tank specs which you would consider to be helpful in seeing them thrive? As I would like to add one. I have a sand substrate which I heard is ideal for their sensitive tissue. I use a Tunze wavebox, phospahte remover, 400w 12K MH, skimmer, LR and I run Phoshate remover and carbon. Water is RODI and I use IO salt. I dose using B Ionic and add trace elemsnts and Amnio acids. Do you think I need to add anything else, or can I attempt one? One last question (with a few parts) Is the disease that is affecting Elegance corals and Euphyllia corals the same as the term coined " Brown Jelly Disease"? I have seen first-hand a few instances of this slimy substance on Frogspawn and Torch corals, which untimately leads to their demise; Or is "Brown Jelly" a unique infection on its own? One of the things I am curious about is if Brown Jelly is a Bacterial or viral infection or if it is a natural response due to poor water or lighting parameters? Also is it contageous and easily spread throughout the tank? Thanks again for responding and sorry for making you type so much!! Your help and time is greatly appreciated, from one Aquarist to another, Thanks very much!

02/28/2007, 06:11 PM	#4
DFS RC Sponsor Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Rhinelander, WI Posts: 593	vijaym85, Elegance Coral (Catalaphyllia jardinei) are normally collected in sandy areas where there is very nutrient rich, turbid water. Visibility is often times poor to fair, so I would try and take your time adjusting this species to intense lighting. Since you currently use 400 watt halides, I would suggest keeping the coral in the sand bed as you have suggested, and in the corners away form the direct beam of the halide lamp, or better yet, under an overhang initially. For the first few weeks, I would also suggest placing some egg crate lighting grid over that side of the tank in order to provide some additional shade for the Elegance. As long as you dose B Ionic in small quantities frequently, while keeping a good eye on your Alkalinity level to avoid rapid fluctuations, I would not recommend adding any other supplements to the aquarium. This is assuming that you perform frequent, small water changes often in order to keep the water chemistry stable. Elegance as well as other LPS corals seems to prefer aquariums that have some nutrients in the water. From my experience reef keepers that maintain very low nutrient reefs when keeping Acropora spp. have a more difficult time in maintaining LPS corals in the same aquarium. This is especially true for aquarists that over skim, underfeed, and suffer from bleached or pale SPS corals. Brown Jelly Disease is actually a protozoan that affects most corals, but is seen more often on Euphyllia, Catalaphyllia, Nemanzophyllia, Galaxea, and even Xenia spp. This protozoan is found on corals and even clams in their natural habitat, but healthy corals will normally not succumb to infection. If a coral is stressed severely by elevated water temperatures, mishandling, poor water conditions, or direct contact with other corals, the attacking protozoan will reproduce rapidly and jeopardize the health of the coral in a very short period of time. There are several genera of protozoan and ciliated parasites that feed on coral tissue, and all of them can spread to other corals in the home aquarium if they can find other stresses hosts. The best way to avoid the introduction of any pest or disease causing organism is to quarantine all aquatic life before placing these species in your display aquarium. If you do find that a coral in your care is suffering from Brown Jelly Disease, Iodine dips will sometimes help, as well as a freshwater bath for 1-2 minutes using RO water of the same temperature and pH. I hope that I have answered your questions and best of luck with your aquarium. Happy Reefing! Kevin Kohen Director of LiveAquaria Drs. Foster and Smith

03/15/2007, 10:22 PM	#7
vijaym85 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Queens NYC Posts: 1,296	By the way the cave is about 9 inches wide and 6-7 inches deep. No direct light simply indirect.

03/16/2007, 08:12 AM	#8
DFS RC Sponsor Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Rhinelander, WI Posts: 593	vijaym85, The cave that you have worked in the middle of the aquarium should be ideal for a Catalaphyllia jardinei as long as there is ample flow for the coral. Once acclimated to that location you can move it forward after a month or so to provide a little more light if need be. The Goniopora stokesi appears to be in good condition with nice polyp extension and sharp tips to each tentacle. I am not sure if that is a Galaxea spp. behind the Goniopora, in front of your built in overflow. If so I would recommend moving the Galaxea to the bottom corner of the aquarium. Galaxea spp. have incredibly long sweeper tentacles at night, and will sting corals that are in close proximity to them. Some Galaxea spp. can produce sweeper tentacles that extend 4-6" at night. Thank you for your questions and as always Happy Reefing! Kevin Kohen Director of LiveAquaria Drs. Foster and Smith

03/16/2007, 05:23 PM	#9
vijaym85 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Queens NYC Posts: 1,296	Hey Kevin thank you once again for your help and for your warning of caution. It appears the pics were bad enough to make my rather harmless GSP appear to be Galaxia. I know all to well about those sweepers. My galaxia is on the left of the cave http://reefcentral.com/gallery/showp...t=1&thecat=500 http://reefcentral.com/gallery/showp...t=1&thecat=500 By the way here is a better shot of the Goni, can you tell its health better from these pics? http://reefcentral.com/gallery/showp...t=1&thecat=500 http://reefcentral.com/gallery/showp...t=1&thecat=500 Sorry to annoy you with all these questions... Just wan't to be sure I am doing everything to the best of my ability and I greatly value your expert opinion! Thank you again for everything!

03/16/2007, 06:07 PM	#10
DFS RC Sponsor Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Rhinelander, WI Posts: 593	vijaym85, It was very difficult to tell what that was by your prefilter box with the blurry pic, but I thought if it were the case I should let you know. Your green star polyps as you have stated are pretty harmless until they try and take over your tank. The Goniopora appears to be doing really well from the images you provided. Good polyp extension and very elongated tentacles which is a sign of a healthy specimen. A little more flow may help to keep the coral in check from extending its polyps and inflating to the size of a basketball. Keep up the feeding regime; your aquarium looks like its coming along nicely. Have a good one! Kevin