Reef Central Online Community
Premium Aquatics

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > General Interest Forums > Reef Discussion
Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

User Tag List

Reply
Thread Tools
Unread 05/06/2014, 05:59 PM   #1
mpderksen
Registered Member
 
mpderksen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Manteca, CA
Posts: 1,853
Unhappy hammer

I wish I could read it's mind! Every other coral is fully open and "happy", but my hammer has been withdrawn for a few days. I've grown it from a 3-head puppy over several years and it's one of my favorites. Do they just do this once in a while? Or could it be a symptom of something. I haven't moved it. It's been warmer lately (up to 82 the other day!) but that's happened every year with no ill effects.




mpderksen is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/06/2014, 06:16 PM   #2
puzzles
Registered Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 15
its to high up it needs good water flow to open up. I would also do some type of a coral dip to bring it back


puzzles is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/06/2014, 06:18 PM   #3
puzzles
Registered Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 15
it could be low PH and if don't have a chiller thats a problem as while


puzzles is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/06/2014, 07:33 PM   #4
slgcmg
Registered Member
 
slgcmg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 521
Has it been in the same spot the whole time?


__________________
180g reef 40g sump 250# LR 10 54w T5. 2 Nasos, sailfin, regal tang, coral beauty, powder blue, yellow tang, melanarus wrasse, 2 chromis, foxface, clownfish, LPS, various shrimps
slgcmg is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/06/2014, 07:38 PM   #5
puzzles
Registered Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 15
do you have a better photo


puzzles is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/07/2014, 09:36 AM   #6
mpderksen
Registered Member
 
mpderksen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Manteca, CA
Posts: 1,853


If you look on the right (may have to zoom in), you can see the return points straight the the right, and the flow bounces off that side and give the area a lot of flow. The hammer has been in the same spot since the setup. It's been closed since the water change (or maybe the day before, so I can't assume it was that) and I didn't do anything really out of the ordinary. I did bump up the lighting about 5% about a week ago. Cleaned the skimmer, 10 gal water change, new Carbon.
I'll pick up some dip today. I've had this coral for 5 years since my first nano and hate to lose it.

Chiller: yes, it's time. BRS has the JBJ 1/10for $550. Just ordered.

Full test tonight of all parameters, and replace the GFO. But this isn't something that LPS just do once in a while and I do have reason to be concerned?



Last edited by mpderksen; 05/07/2014 at 09:49 AM.
mpderksen is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/07/2014, 11:19 AM   #7
scuzy
Registered Member
 
scuzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 6,499
damn those chillers are expensive. I got the same one used for about 110 on CL..

I would do another water change usually helps my frogspawns and hammers when they are closed up.


scuzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/07/2014, 07:20 PM   #8
mpderksen
Registered Member
 
mpderksen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Manteca, CA
Posts: 1,853
Making water now. I plan to do 5gal/day for a while. Certainly can't hurt. Maybe I had some lotion on my hands when I was glueing frags on Saturday? But the skimmer seems to be under performing as well this week. SOMETHING is off, and the hammer may be the canary in the coal mine.


mpderksen is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/09/2014, 09:09 PM   #9
mpderksen
Registered Member
 
mpderksen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Manteca, CA
Posts: 1,853


Everything else in the tank is fully extended. The hammer is completely receded for a full week now. It's not as white as the picture shows. I emergency ordered a WP25, and it's pointed across the top without directly blasting it at W1, S1, medium duration. The tank is currently 81.5F, and the new chiller doesn't arrive until Tuesday. I have the door to the sump open and gonna position a fan on it for now, watching my top off water closely over the weekend.

Lighting is led, and at the spot the hammer is at is PAR 325. 8 hours at full, and a 1 hour ramp at each end.
Just now, pre-water change my parameters are:
SG 1.027
PO4 - 0.05 ppm (HANNA)
Mg - 1320 (Red Sea)
Ca - 420 (API)
Alk - 9.5/170ppm (API)
PH - 8.2 (API)
nH3/NO2/NO3 - none detected (API)

With a water change I will lower the SG to 1.025. I will also change the GFO since it has risen from 0.02 since last week.

Should I try an Iodine dip?


mpderksen is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/10/2014, 12:39 AM   #10
Every1jockzjay
Moved On
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 515
I find my hammers to like a moderate to low flow, just so the tentacles sway nicely. How long have you had the leds? Is there anyyy variable at all that may have changed?
The only thing i see that may or may not be an issue is the deep sand bed, maybe its starting to leach nutrients back into the tank. I kno it sounds whacky but it looks like a somewhat mature tank and from what i kno dsb are like diaper and if not changed or clean they will eventually leak loll. Maybe siphon out some sand with water changes, if u decided to do that be carefull bc if that is a problem you dont want to disturb to much at once. I recently moved my tank and replaced sand and i couldnt believe how nasty the sand at the bottom of the tank was. It looked clean till i got to the bottom and stirred it up.
You may want other opinions im no expert. I just find that with sand bottoms if you dont stay ontop of cleaning it, it can really buildup alot of crud. Are you getting any nuisance algae at all?? My euphylia close up once in a while but its usually just to poo and open within an hour. Have you disturbed the sand bed at all recently?
Like i said im just takin a guess im not a pro lol


Every1jockzjay is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/10/2014, 08:36 AM   #11
mpderksen
Registered Member
 
mpderksen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Manteca, CA
Posts: 1,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Every1jockzjay View Post
I find my hammers to like a moderate to low flow, just so the tentacles sway nicely. How long have you had the leds? Is there anyyy variable at all that may have changed?
The only thing i see that may or may not be an issue is the deep sand bed, maybe its starting to leach nutrients back into the tank. I kno it sounds whacky but it looks like a somewhat mature tank and from what i kno dsb are like diaper and if not changed or clean they will eventually leak loll. Maybe siphon out some sand with water changes, if u decided to do that be carefull bc if that is a problem you dont want to disturb to much at once. I recently moved my tank and replaced sand and i couldnt believe how nasty the sand at the bottom of the tank was. It looked clean till i got to the bottom and stirred it up.
You may want other opinions im no expert. I just find that with sand bottoms if you dont stay ontop of cleaning it, it can really buildup alot of crud. Are you getting any nuisance algae at all?? My euphylia close up once in a while but its usually just to poo and open within an hour. Have you disturbed the sand bed at all recently?
Like i said im just takin a guess im not a pro lol
The tank has been up since September (so certainly mature by most standards). The sand isn't nearly as deep as it looks. My Maroon keeps swishing the area on the left away from the rocks, towards the glass. The RTBA used to be there. I push it back from time to time. She is persistent!
Algae, yes. I'm winning a GHA battle and it's nearly gone. I have been adding about 5-10 mL of AlgaeFix Marine 1-2 times/week. I stopped this week when I saw the distress of the Hammer, but I only have the smallest clumps of it now.
The temp of the tank has risen in the last few weeks. Being in the California Central Valley, we are I. The high 70s to even some 90s. We keep the A/C at 76F, but even with that, the tank is now >80F. This morning it is 80.6. A JBJ 1/10hp chiller is on order and I'll be adding that next weekend. At that point, I'll get it back to 78F.
I took some PAR readings a few weeks ago, and thought I wanted to raise it a bit since I was getting my first SPS. I bump the LEDs from 80% blue/60% white to 85% blue/64% white. Seemed like a small change. The next day, my RTBA moved for the first time in months. I didn't make the connection until yesterday when I was thinking "what changed?"
Last night, I removed the hammer from up top, and set it on the sandbed, and drastically lowered the LEDs to 50% blue/40% white. The hammer started to extend literally within 15 minutes, and in 30, every head was half extended (then it was bedtime so they clicked off). This morning, it certainly isn't open, but way more like I typically saw it in the AM. I'm not raising it until I see it fully open.
The short answer, though, is that the hammer had been at the exact same spot, same flow, same lights, for 9 months. Assuming the heat going from a steady 79 to 82 wasn't the cause, the only thing I can think of is the 5% increase in lighting.


mpderksen is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/11/2014, 03:00 PM   #12
Every1jockzjay
Moved On
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 515
If theres algae im the tank its likely your readings are a tad off...i would deff keep the gfo fresh, phosphate is my only guess and if there is algae in the tank it is very possible....thats the only thing i could guess, everything seems fine to me.


Every1jockzjay is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/11/2014, 04:48 PM   #13
ReeferBill
Registered Member
 
ReeferBill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,906
What about your flame angel , it could have developed a taste for hammers!


__________________
I never realized I had to be a Chemist and a Marine Biologist to maintain a Reef Aquarium!
ReeferBill is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/11/2014, 05:14 PM   #14
nicholasb
Registered Member
 
nicholasb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: south west england
Posts: 292
go to mr salt water tank .com and whatch is live q&a from last week he talks about how to chill a tank.!! Corals are funny like that. Mu seven head ducan now has 30 heads in two years. It was always out with out fail. Now it won't open.


nicholasb is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/11/2014, 05:15 PM   #15
mpderksen
Registered Member
 
mpderksen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Manteca, CA
Posts: 1,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReeferBill View Post
What about your flame angel , it could have developed a taste for hammers!
While I've never seen it nip, would ALL the heads close at the same time?


mpderksen is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/11/2014, 07:07 PM   #16
rlm2005
Registered Member
 
rlm2005's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: San Diego Area
Posts: 432
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpderksen View Post
While I've never seen it nip, would ALL the heads close at the same time?
I've noticed if something bothers one head all react to some degree. Mine will close up periodically but never for days at a time. Is the tissue receding at all?


__________________
Rhonda

65 gallon mixed reef
rlm2005 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/11/2014, 07:10 PM   #17
nmbeg
Registered Member
 
nmbeg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 894
Maybe it's just the end of its life. It is an animal, after all, with a limited life span.


nmbeg is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/11/2014, 07:15 PM   #18
mpderksen
Registered Member
 
mpderksen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Manteca, CA
Posts: 1,853
Gosh, I hope not. Yes, the tissue seems fine. Today it is still mostly retracted. I've had it down on the sand bed for the last few days, for a water change and lowered the lights. Tank temp is 79.6F currently.
Every other coral remains extended fully. I haven't added AlgaeFix Marine since it retracted 9 days ago.


mpderksen is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/11/2014, 07:38 PM   #19
rlm2005
Registered Member
 
rlm2005's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: San Diego Area
Posts: 432
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpderksen View Post
Gosh, I hope not. Yes, the tissue seems fine. Today it is still mostly retracted. I've had it down on the sand bed for the last few days, for a water change and lowered the lights. Tank temp is 79.6F currently.
Every other coral remains extended fully. I haven't added AlgaeFix Marine since it retracted 9 days ago.
Just leave it alone. Your temp is just fine, my tank gets to 82-83 in the summer with no issues and I have hammers, frogspawns and torches. If you start to notice tissue receding or brown jelly, pull it and dip it. Otherwise I would let it be for now.


__________________
Rhonda

65 gallon mixed reef
rlm2005 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/11/2014, 07:51 PM   #20
TigeBell
Registered Member
 
TigeBell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Fair Oaks, CA
Posts: 974
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReeferBill View Post
What about your flame angel , it could have developed a taste for hammers!
+1.

I had a dwarf angle that took to my Duncan colony.


__________________
David B.

Red Sea Reefer 350 | Hydra TwentySix HD
http://www.aquaticlog.com/aquariums/tigebell/1
TigeBell is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/11/2014, 09:05 PM   #21
mpderksen
Registered Member
 
mpderksen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Manteca, CA
Posts: 1,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlm2005 View Post
Just leave it alone. Your temp is just fine, my tank gets to 82-83 in the summer with no issues and I have hammers, frogspawns and torches. If you start to notice tissue receding or brown jelly, pull it and dip it. Otherwise I would let it be for now.
That's good information, thanks. It's only that low today since it was cooler and we opened the windows. For the last week I've seen it hang at 84 when we have the house closed, and the AC set to 78. (The tank seems to be ~6F more than ambient once the lights go on). We're gonna hitting 100 this week.
The purchase of the chiller was mainly because I want to start trying SPS.
I will continue to to keep my hands off for now. I could do more harm by messing with a bunch of things since the parameters I can test all look good. I will be out of town until Thursday night. I'll take a pic now, and then compare when I get home. Specifically looking for the flesh receding.


mpderksen is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/23/2014, 08:53 AM   #22
mpderksen
Registered Member
 
mpderksen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Manteca, CA
Posts: 1,853
About 3 weeks now. The hammer is still mostly withdrawn. I moved it to a lower flow area, and down to the sandbed. Everything else in the tank looks good. My other LPS, a 40-head Duncan, has been a bit more closed now in the last few days, but opens fine during the day, mostly.
The chiller is now holding the temp of the tank to 77-78F. Over the last few weeks I've done my regular water changes, but have gradually lowered my SG from 1.027 to 1.024.
I have been adding AlgaeFix Marine for GHA combat twice each week for a while, so maybe it has built up and has been stressing the LPS?
Do corals just get old and die? This is my oldest coral, but only 5 years. I am resisting the urge to make any dramatic changes other than lower the lights. Tests all read excellent on the typical parameters, assuming the they are accurate.
There are no signs of a disease that I can see, and nothing is nipping at it (I've kept an eye on the dwarf flame, which is the only suspect).
All my softies seem more extended, so I think I actually need to raise the lights back up a bit.


mpderksen is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/23/2014, 09:22 AM   #23
jrozzi
Moved On
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 580
not to insult you at all....but I saw your MG test was red sea did you add bottle A 5 times shaking it for 15 seconds in between each drop...I know the first time I did the test I missed that part. Just a suggestion I hope he pulls through.


jrozzi is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/23/2014, 09:25 AM   #24
mpderksen
Registered Member
 
mpderksen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Manteca, CA
Posts: 1,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrozzi View Post
not to insult you at all....but I saw your MG test was red sea did you add bottle A 5 times shaking it for 15 seconds in between each drop...I know the first time I did the test I missed that part. Just a suggestion I hope he pulls through.
No problem at all. I have to question everything at this point too. Yes, I do the 15 sec shake. In fact, I actually time it using the countdown timer on the HANNA PO4 checker to be sure (it counts down for 3:00 once you push the button).
My Mg is around 1300. And since I do weekly water changes, it does stay pretty stable.


mpderksen is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05/23/2014, 09:29 AM   #25
jrozzi
Moved On
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 580
Well shoot. My elegance coral did the same thing and never pulled through. Sorry buddy. Im not sure what it could be.


jrozzi is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2022 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright 1999-2022
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2022 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.