Reef Central Online Community

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > General Interest Forums > The Reef Chemistry Forum
Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

User Tag List

Reply
Thread Tools
Unread 03/22/2019, 08:12 AM   #1
lrhorer
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 42
Chemistry not quite right

My fish have all been doing very well for over two years. My corals have been a little less successful, but have been holding their own for the last several months. The greatest success has seemed to come from increasing the lighting drastically over my chato in the sump and dosing Magnesium. The soft corals are running wild - I have to prune them constantly to keep them from choking the tank. The LPS corals, however, are not growing very fast, if at all. I realize they will never grow as fast as the soft corals, but I think they could do better. All the chemistry parameters are well within normal limits except for the following:

1. Carbonate hardness. The hardness of my water continues to be higher than recommended. Most references I have seen suggest the dKH should be no higher than 11 (197ppm). Mine is typically 13 - 14 (233 - 251ppm).

2. Calcium. The Calcium level is below the recommended minimum for a reef tank, and Ca is absolutely essential for coral growth. Most references give the minimum recommended Ca level to be about 400 - 450ppm. Mine is about 380ppm.

The literature suggests a Ca level of 380 should be good enough, actually, but my concern is whatever I do to lower the alkalinity might further deplete the Calcium. Does anyone have a recommendation for slightly lowering the Alkalinity without negatively impacting the pH or Calcium levels? Better yet, raising Calcium and either raising pH a it or leaving it unchanged?


lrhorer is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03/22/2019, 08:49 AM   #2
ReefWreak
Registered Member
 
ReefWreak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Astoria, NYC
Posts: 10,159
Two part additives, only dosing the calcium part, will accomplish increasing calcium without impacting ph or alkalinity levels.

If calcium and alk are good (and STABLE), I'd recommend direct feeding of lps, and if that still doesn't work over time, you can always buy an ICP test like Triton, and see what it says.

Chemistry levels are #1, stability of those levels is #2, food is #3, and finally trace elements might be #4. This assumes you have appropriate lighting and don't have a disease or organism predating on your lps corals.


ReefWreak is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03/22/2019, 08:49 AM   #3
FishAndPhysics
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: NY
Posts: 95
What is the alk of the water you are using for water changes? What is your mag?

Are you dosing?

If I were you, I would make sure the alk of my water change water was below 12, mag was acceptable, and then dose only Ca until the corals in your tank consume the excess alk. Then start dosing ca and alk.


__________________
90 Gallon Mixed Reef with 20g sump
Current Stock: 1 - Ocellaris Clownfish, 1 - Yellow Tang, 1 - Kole Yellow Eye Tang, 1 - unidentified hitchhiker goby, 1 - Coral Beauty, 3 - Lyretail Anthias.
FishAndPhysics is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03/22/2019, 11:48 AM   #4
lrhorer
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReefWreak View Post
Two part additives, only dosing the calcium part, will accomplish increasing calcium without impacting ph or alkalinity levels.
Well, it wouldn't hurt to increase calcium by itself a bit, but that wouldn't lower the alkalinity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReefWreak View Post
If calcium and alk are good (and STABLE)
Well, as I said, my alkalinity is high. The water around here makes concrete look like foam rubber.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReefWreak View Post
I'd recommend direct feeding of lps
I am already doing so, although I am not certain how good the foods I am using are. I am using Marine Snow and Phytoplex. I am goingto try some Reef Roids to see how they do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReefWreak View Post
and if that still doesn't work over time, you can always buy an ICP test like Triton, and see what it says.
If I don't see some obvious growth in the next few months, I will give it a try.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReefWreak View Post
Chemistry levels are #1, stability of those levels is #2
As stated, the levels are a bit off, but not horrible, I don't think. Stability is good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReefWreak View Post
food is #3
Yeah, I don't see a lot of obvious food consumption like I have seen in videos of other people's tanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReefWreak View Post
and finally trace elements might be #4.
I am dosing Iodine, Magnesium, and Strontium per recommendations. Magnesium levels are stable around 1300ppm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReefWreak View Post
This assumes you have appropriate lighting
I think so. I have moved the frags around to where they seem happiest, and none are in either the brightest nor the darkest areas except for a couple of mushrooms that seem to like it best in the darkest part of the tank. All of them respond as expected to the light cycles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReefWreak View Post
and don't have a disease or organism predating on your lps corals.
Well I did have something eating my Button Polyps: they were disappearing one or two at a time. Other than that, the corals aren't diminishing, just not growing like I believe they should. The colors seem pretty good.


lrhorer is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03/22/2019, 11:55 AM   #5
lrhorer
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by FishAndPhysics View Post
What is the alk of the water you are using for water changes?
13

Quote:
Originally Posted by FishAndPhysics View Post
What is your mag?
1300

Quote:
Originally Posted by FishAndPhysics View Post
Are you dosing?
Magnesium, Strontium, and Iodine, yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FishAndPhysics View Post
If I were you, I would make sure the alk of my water change water was below 12
That's easier said than done. I am buying the water from my LFS. I suppose I could mix my own using water from my water softener.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FishAndPhysics View Post
mag was acceptable, and then dose only Ca until the corals in your tank consume the excess alk. Then start dosing ca and alk.
So far they haven't.


lrhorer is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03/22/2019, 03:14 PM   #6
bertoni
RC Mod
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Mountain View, CA, USA
Posts: 88,616
13 dKH probably is safe enough. If stopping the alkalinity dosing doesn't help, then I'd personally just ignore the dKH. Some tanks, especially those getting carbon dosing, seem to have problems with a higher dKH level, but not always. Other than that, 13 dKH seems to be acceptable for our systems.


__________________
Jonathan Bertoni
bertoni is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03/22/2019, 04:36 PM   #7
lrhorer
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 42
OK. Nothing seems actually stressed, so I'm not worried, just not thrilled, either.


lrhorer is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03/23/2019, 08:15 AM   #8
dkeller_nc
Registered Member
 
dkeller_nc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Central NC
Posts: 5,062
You mentioned that your tap water was very hard. But presuming that you're using an RODI system to produce your top-off water, that shouldn't actually matter. If you're not and you're just using something like Amquel or Prime to remove chlorine/chloramine, or you're on a well, you might consider going to a RODI system, since chlorine/chloramine isn't the only issue with untreated tap water.


dkeller_nc is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03/23/2019, 09:57 AM   #9
Uncle99
Crab Free Zone
 
Uncle99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,906
When you get water from LFS, your asking for trouble
Make your own and ensure 0 tds is maintained.
Otherwise “sally” whose in grade 11 may be your water master


Uncle99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03/28/2019, 02:52 PM   #10
clevername
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Manchester, MO
Posts: 1,125
i hope someone steps in with the details but after a certain level of ALK the soft part (internal) corals will outgrow the calcium structure. Literally the calcium skeleton cant grow fast enough.

I reference it like this, adding a NOS tank in a hybrid. YES you can get really fast results but internally the engine is going to be stressed long term and wear down. (not the best analogy). In this case 100% raising ALK will make corals grow faster (fact) BUT at some point the other parts of the coral which DONT use ALK cant keep up.


clevername is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03/28/2019, 06:36 PM   #11
bertoni
RC Mod
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Mountain View, CA, USA
Posts: 88,616
If the alkalinity starts dropping much below 6 dKH or so, very roughly, the coral might not be able to grow because it will have trouble producing a skeleton. That 6 dKH number is rather pessimistic, but there are a lot of variables involved in a more precise answer.


__________________
Jonathan Bertoni
bertoni is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03/28/2019, 07:03 PM   #12
bustybones
Registered Member
 
bustybones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 3
my tank has gone through same process, I daily dosed aqua vitro 8.4 to raise carbonate alkalinity. do this slowly. I tested 3x a day to gain data points to find the rate of consumption. Am, mid afternoon, and evening. Friday my alkalinity was 6.0, my calcium was over 500 and magnesium was 1600. Today my alkalinity is 8.2

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


bustybones is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04/07/2019, 10:40 AM   #13
lrhorer
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkeller_nc View Post
You mentioned that your tap water was very hard. But presuming that you're using an RODI system to produce your top-off water, that shouldn't actually matter.
No, there are two main LFS here in San Antonio. One has a a DI system, the other a RO system. The DI is more expensive and less accessible. (They close early.)


lrhorer is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04/07/2019, 10:43 AM   #14
lrhorer
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle99 View Post
When you get water from LFS, your asking for trouble
Make your own and ensure 0 tds is maintained.
Otherwise “sally” whose in grade 11 may be your water master
No, I know everyone at both stores, and have for years. Decades, actually. I started this hobby when I was 13. I will be 60 later this year.


lrhorer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:57 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2024 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright ©1999-2022
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.