Best shipping procedures

ben&bobbi · 10/22/2007, 06:45 AM

Ok, i looked around, attempted a few searches and didn't find anything.

I am mainly interested in shipping SPS.

How are you guys doing this successfully?

I know this much -

cooler box
SPS coral in tank water
overnight shipping only!

Not sure on this -

heat pack or cool pack - how to protect coral from quick heating/cooling?
anything added to the water?
how to keep coral from getting beat/broke up?
guarantee?

post your shipping practices on other corals too - i think this could help thers also to expand their selling market.

Serioussnaps · 10/22/2007, 10:58 AM

www.uline.com

The boxes you know about but heres a source.

I use FEDEX ONLY as I know what UPS does to their boxes....its not good. I think they have their very own pro soccer team. I have been through a UPS loading facility and they treat it like crap.

Must be overnight, and guaranteed no later than 3PM the next day. Of course this is weather dependent, which brings up another important factor.

WEATHER DEPENDENT

What is the weather like in your area? What is the weather like in their area? You have to stay tuned to this or you will mess it up. I have had to hold back on a guy and he wondered why....bam snow the next day and then he realized why I didnt do it...i was ahead of him on the weather in HIS area. You have to determine whether or not to use a heat or cold pack. Sometimes these can be more detrimental than beneficial. Remember its worse for the water to get hotter than to drop a few degrees. You want to keep the time out of a system to a minimum. for this reason, I cut a day or two before shipping out(or some folks cut and mount long before they even put them up for sale) then rush home from work at 5:30 BAG them up and get them to fedex by 7:00 for delivery by 10:30AM. This MINIMIZES time out of my system and their system.

Other important things worth mentioning.

BAGGING----double/triple bag........remember folks worry about weight on shipping but the real killer is the size of the package and not weight so use as much water as possible to minimize swings....remember a small amount of water can get hot or cold quickly so the more you use the less the swings
-dont twist the bag up so that there is alot of air in the bag...it can pop or be punctured

RECEIVER----make sure the person receiving is home to get them upon delivery so they can immediately float the bags to temp acclimate and begin their process...too many times fools leave the corals on the doorstep all day and wonder why they are bleached then complain.....

Also, if weather is an issue there is an option. I have done this for 2 folks on RC. HOLD AT DEPOT...I did this for someone receiving in Arizona because they couldn't be home and you know how hot it is in AZ. He just picked it up from the depot and everything was dandy.

Cheers

Serioussnaps · 10/22/2007, 11:01 AM

I pack the cooler between the bags with peanuts or paper towel stuffings. To keep them from breaking fresh cut them. Frags on live ruck rubble will break other frags from the rock moving, unless you pack appropriately with peanuts. I have only had one coral break up in shipping and it was a monti cap/foliosa/undata...whichever the tyree idaho grape is.

Fedex guarrantees by a certain time depending on what you pay for and they refund if it isnt there. Generally that is up to they buyer because if it gets there late and they dont want their money back then I am sure as hell not going through the trouble.

Guarranteeing is risky...generally there are two options. One you can tell the buyer it is there risk and there is no guarrantee. The other is generally guarrantee a live delivery and any DOA must have pics timestamped(and date) within a couple hours of the guarranteed/or actual delivery time....even then the buyer has to pay shipping to get the same corals again. Most places/sellers don't offer a full refund in terms of cash and if corals are out of stock you will have to work something out, you will be lucky to get half as a buyer must know it is a risk.

I placed an order with a fellow RC'er one time in which i purchased only 1 $50 coral and payed $50 to have it shipped because I wanted it so badly. I can't say why it was DOA and won't venture here, but I didn't demand him to ship me another one A)because I knew the risk and B) because I wasn't so sure I would get another one alive and just lose another $50 on shipping.

I can say that with all this blabbing I have had a 100% shipping sucess rate on about 15-20 sales.

kev apsley · 10/22/2007, 04:16 PM

Ditto on the FedEx, I just went through a UPS sorting facility for a job interview and those guys are worst than Auto Assembly Workers and trust me that's bad! I use to be one

I have had a few bad experiences with FedEx but I still prefer them over everybody else and DO NOT use the USPS!

ezcompany · 10/22/2007, 05:09 PM

u sure its the size? i think its the weight more than the size that matters

twon8 · 10/22/2007, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ezcompany
u sure its the size? i think its the weight more than the size that matters

ive got a fedex acct and i get charged by weight, so i use minimal water. i have shipped frags damp before with success.

ezcompany · 10/22/2007, 05:36 PM

yea, i'm pretty sure its the weight that matters more.

ben&bobbi · 10/22/2007, 07:02 PM

this is great information!

any more ideas? or has he covered it!

Paulairduck · 10/22/2007, 07:28 PM

I really like the idea of shipping to the depot, so the corals are not riding around in a truck all day!

Maximus · 10/22/2007, 11:59 PM

After shipping literally hundreds of frags with a 99% track record, I would do these things:

1. Buy 4"x10" bags from Uline
2. Triple bag each frag
3. Use small igloo coolers (can buy at Walmart for around $10)
4. Make sure to fill void space with styro peanuts or paper towels.
5. Use Fedex priority for home delivery or ship Fedex regular overnight to Fedex depot (both standard and priority get to the Fedex depot at the same time. Why spend more on Priority?)
6. Never ship for Fri delivery
6. Use a long lasting heat pack.
7. Ship as latest as possible.

flyyyguy · 10/23/2007, 12:30 AM

To add a little to what maximus said......

I ship often and am one of the few individuals who will guarantee live arrival. Since Ive gotten confident in my shipping practices and offered this guarantee I have not had any casualties.................of course fed-ex can take partial responsibility in that success by never dropping the ball as well.

Overnight shipping only and I buy these nice coolers from U-line that are $5-10 apiece after shipping to me and have nice thick walls. 1.25-1.5" thick. These thick walls give you the control you need to deal with any shipping circumstances. I can confidently ship in extreme heat or cold. Key is wrapping you rhot or cold pack up accordingly........if you just need a touch of hot or cold wrap the heck out of it in newspapper....so very little heat or cold will actually be added, nor will it get the bags close to it too hot or cold, and you rely on these thick walled coolers to keep the temp where you want it.

Also wrap all the bags inside a black plastic bag. No light whatsoever makes the corals not try to respirate. Very little water or air in the bag is needs so you save on space and weight and can use the smallest cooler possible.

Out of curiosity I had one guy measure the water temp for me in LA on arrival when it was 115 degrees out and I shipped anyway. Water was 81 degrees........more or less the same temp I keep my tanks at. I was pleased with that

Bottom line dont scrimp on the shipping in materials or mess with multiple day shipping and you will greatly increase your odds of success. I knoiw a lot of people use them, bu t those makeshift coolers you buy that have seperate styrofoam walls absolutely SUCK. with air leakage like that out the walls you lose all control of what the temp inside will actually be. Ricordia and zoas of course cna handle a lot more swing than sps, but regardless......those boxes suck. did I already say that??

burris · 10/23/2007, 08:44 AM

Do you guys really ship acros/millis/montis/etc... in bags of water? For these species, isn't the best way to use the "dry" method?

jay24k · 10/23/2007, 09:49 AM

I dont think it is the best way.

I use Fedex also.
I use 3 mil bags and I bought a heat sealer off ebay. Much better then rubber banding imo. I use the same bags and fill some water in it and freeze it for cheap ice packs. I buy styrofoam from Home depot and cut it to fit the box.
Ship on Wednesdays just in case there is a delay. From what I read, O2 isn't really needed for corals during shipping and I've yet to lose a single one.

When I shipped on ebay, I guarenteed my corals 100% within 2 hours of it being delivered. However, if one didn't make it and they seemed knowledgable, I'd toss in that frag again free on another shipment.

My motto is treat others as you would expect to be treated when you buy.

burris · 10/23/2007, 10:02 AM

Why not? It seems that the problems described in this thread (weight, leaks, damage, suffocation) are not issues with the dry method. The books recommend dry method and surely they have tried shipping bags of water.

jay24k · 10/23/2007, 10:41 AM

There are still corals that just won't make it. There have been articles on shipping dry and while it works for some, it seems water is easiest if it is truely overnight.

Serioussnaps · 10/23/2007, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ezcompany
yea, i'm pretty sure its the weight that matters more.

No, I AM SURE.

Here is an example:

For a 5 lb. 12x10x10 package:

Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:00 AM FedEx First OvernightÂ® 61.28
Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:30 AM FedEx Priority OvernightÂ® 29.30
Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:00 PM FedEx Standard OvernightÂ® 25.99

For a 10lb 12x10x10 package

DOUBLE THE WEIGHT)

Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:00 AM FedEx First OvernightÂ® 66.69
Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:30 AM FedEx Priority OvernightÂ® 34.54
Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:00 PM FedEx Standard OvernightÂ® 31.12

Now watch this(SAME WEIGHTS BUT DOUBLE THE SIZE):

For a 5 lb 24X20X20 PACKAGE:

Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:00 AM FedEx First OvernightÂ® 110.01
Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:30 AM FedEx Priority OvernightÂ® 81.05
Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:00 PM FedEx Standard OvernightÂ® 70.68

For a 10lb 24x20x20 package:

Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:00 AM FedEx First OvernightÂ® 110.01
Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:30 AM FedEx Priority OvernightÂ® 81.05
Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:00 PM FedEx Standard OvernightÂ® 70.68

Lookey lookey, double the weight on larger package and no change. Double the weight on smaller package a slight change. Double the SIZE OF THE PACKAGE on the 5 lb and almost double the shipping.

I REST MY CASE

Serioussnaps · 10/23/2007, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by burris
Do you guys really ship acros/millis/montis/etc... in bags of water? For these species, isn't the best way to use the "dry" method?

No...anyone that tells you otherwise is EXTREMELY MISINFORMED.

If i paid good money to ship corals and someone sent them dry it would be ON.

burris · 10/23/2007, 10:58 AM

Charles Delbeek and Julian Sprung are "EXTREMELY MISINFORMED" ?

ben&bobbi · 10/23/2007, 11:05 AM

maybe they will chime in and help us!

burris · 10/23/2007, 11:08 AM

How about Bruce Carlsson? Is he EXTREMELY MISINFORMED too? http://icb.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/39/1/44.pdf

Maybe Eric Borneman is EXTREMELY MISINFORMED?
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-11/eb/index.php

Maybe, just maybe, it is YOU who is EXTREMELY MISINFORMED. Are you prepared for that possibility?

Serioussnaps · 10/23/2007, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by burris
How about Bruce Carlsson? Is he EXTREMELY MISINFORMED too? http://icb.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/39/1/44.pdf

Maybe Eric Borneman is EXTREMELY MISINFORMED?
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-11/eb/index.php

Maybe, just maybe, it is YOU who is EXTREMELY MISINFORMED. Are you prepared for that possibility?

Yes it works, but you have a much higher chance of your Acroporids(isn't that pretty much what this forum is geared towards) dying out of water than in water. I am not talking about some tiddly wink zoanthids here. Go order a bunch of LE frags and ask them to ship them dry and see what happens. Maybe you can call Eric B. when all your frags die. LMAO, just ship them dry and see what happens.

Serioussnaps · 10/23/2007, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ben&bobbi
maybe they will chime in and help us!

burris · 10/23/2007, 11:15 AM

Charles Delbeek chiming in: http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/pipermail...ry/001680.html

Serioussnaps · 10/23/2007, 11:22 AM

Oh man...maybe you should read the articles you post!!!!!!

"I would have to say there are a number of factors involved in its success or failure."---FAILURE IS NOT AN OPTION

"The submerged method works best for larger fragments or small colonies of branching corals. It is also less prone to rapid chilling during shipping"----WHAT, HUH? DELBEEK? WHAT?

"When I ship larger fragments I send them in bags with 1/3 water and 2/3 oxygen, some plastics strips included for cushioning and the frags wrapped in plastic."---AGAIN? HUH? OH IN WATER? THATS RIGHT!

So I am the misinformed one?

burris · 10/23/2007, 11:24 AM

You're not misinformed any more.

10/22/2007, 06:45 AM	#1
ben&bobbi Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: mims, fl Posts: 1,063	Best shipping procedures Ok, i looked around, attempted a few searches and didn't find anything. I am mainly interested in shipping SPS. How are you guys doing this successfully? I know this much - cooler box SPS coral in tank water overnight shipping only! Not sure on this - heat pack or cool pack - how to protect coral from quick heating/cooling? anything added to the water? how to keep coral from getting beat/broke up? guarantee? post your shipping practices on other corals too - i think this could help thers also to expand their selling market.

10/22/2007, 11:01 AM	#3
Serioussnaps Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,703	I pack the cooler between the bags with peanuts or paper towel stuffings. To keep them from breaking fresh cut them. Frags on live ruck rubble will break other frags from the rock moving, unless you pack appropriately with peanuts. I have only had one coral break up in shipping and it was a monti cap/foliosa/undata...whichever the tyree idaho grape is. Fedex guarrantees by a certain time depending on what you pay for and they refund if it isnt there. Generally that is up to they buyer because if it gets there late and they dont want their money back then I am sure as hell not going through the trouble. Guarranteeing is risky...generally there are two options. One you can tell the buyer it is there risk and there is no guarrantee. The other is generally guarrantee a live delivery and any DOA must have pics timestamped(and date) within a couple hours of the guarranteed/or actual delivery time....even then the buyer has to pay shipping to get the same corals again. Most places/sellers don't offer a full refund in terms of cash and if corals are out of stock you will have to work something out, you will be lucky to get half as a buyer must know it is a risk. I placed an order with a fellow RC'er one time in which i purchased only 1 $50 coral and payed $50 to have it shipped because I wanted it so badly. I can't say why it was DOA and won't venture here, but I didn't demand him to ship me another one A)because I knew the risk and B) because I wasn't so sure I would get another one alive and just lose another $50 on shipping. I can say that with all this blabbing I have had a 100% shipping sucess rate on about 15-20 sales. Last edited by Serioussnaps; 10/22/2007 at 11:09 AM.

10/22/2007, 05:09 PM	#5
ezcompany Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 4,640	u sure its the size? i think its the weight more than the size that matters __________________ Jin Have a nice day! Current Tank Info: IM40

10/22/2007, 05:36 PM	#7
ezcompany Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 4,640	yea, i'm pretty sure its the weight that matters more. __________________ Jin Have a nice day! Current Tank Info: IM40

10/22/2007, 11:59 PM	#10
Maximus Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Monterey County Posts: 6,442	After shipping literally hundreds of frags with a 99% track record, I would do these things: 1. Buy 4"x10" bags from Uline 2. Triple bag each frag 3. Use small igloo coolers (can buy at Walmart for around $10) 4. Make sure to fill void space with styro peanuts or paper towels. 5. Use Fedex priority for home delivery or ship Fedex regular overnight to Fedex depot (both standard and priority get to the Fedex depot at the same time. Why spend more on Priority?) 6. Never ship for Fri delivery 6. Use a long lasting heat pack. 7. Ship as latest as possible. __________________ This space for rent... Current Tank Info: 36x36x16 A.G.E. tank. Lighting: ATI Straton. Circulation: 2x Vortech MP40wQd's. Skimmer: Red Sea 300. Controller: Neptune Apex. Doser: Neptune Dos.

10/22/2007, 10:58 AM	#2
Serioussnaps Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,703	www.uline.com The boxes you know about but heres a source. I use FEDEX ONLY as I know what UPS does to their boxes....its not good. I think they have their very own pro soccer team. I have been through a UPS loading facility and they treat it like crap. Must be overnight, and guaranteed no later than 3PM the next day. Of course this is weather dependent, which brings up another important factor. WEATHER DEPENDENT What is the weather like in your area? What is the weather like in their area? You have to stay tuned to this or you will mess it up. I have had to hold back on a guy and he wondered why....bam snow the next day and then he realized why I didnt do it...i was ahead of him on the weather in HIS area. You have to determine whether or not to use a heat or cold pack. Sometimes these can be more detrimental than beneficial. Remember its worse for the water to get hotter than to drop a few degrees. You want to keep the time out of a system to a minimum. for this reason, I cut a day or two before shipping out(or some folks cut and mount long before they even put them up for sale) then rush home from work at 5:30 BAG them up and get them to fedex by 7:00 for delivery by 10:30AM. This MINIMIZES time out of my system and their system. Other important things worth mentioning. BAGGING----double/triple bag........remember folks worry about weight on shipping but the real killer is the size of the package and not weight so use as much water as possible to minimize swings....remember a small amount of water can get hot or cold quickly so the more you use the less the swings -dont twist the bag up so that there is alot of air in the bag...it can pop or be punctured RECEIVER----make sure the person receiving is home to get them upon delivery so they can immediately float the bags to temp acclimate and begin their process...too many times fools leave the corals on the doorstep all day and wonder why they are bleached then complain..... Also, if weather is an issue there is an option. I have done this for 2 folks on RC. HOLD AT DEPOT...I did this for someone receiving in Arizona because they couldn't be home and you know how hot it is in AZ. He just picked it up from the depot and everything was dandy. Cheers

10/22/2007, 04:16 PM	#4
kev apsley Moved On Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: LI, NY Posts: 4,424	Ditto on the FedEx, I just went through a UPS sorting facility for a job interview and those guys are worst than Auto Assembly Workers and trust me that's bad! I use to be one I have had a few bad experiences with FedEx but I still prefer them over everybody else and DO NOT use the USPS!

10/22/2007, 07:02 PM	#8
ben&bobbi Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: mims, fl Posts: 1,063	this is great information! any more ideas? or has he covered it!

10/22/2007, 07:28 PM	#9
Paulairduck I LOVE FREE FRAGS!!! Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Chino Hills Posts: 2,909	I really like the idea of shipping to the depot, so the corals are not riding around in a truck all day!

10/23/2007, 12:30 AM	#11
flyyyguy King of the white corals Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,239	To add a little to what maximus said...... I ship often and am one of the few individuals who will guarantee live arrival. Since Ive gotten confident in my shipping practices and offered this guarantee I have not had any casualties.................of course fed-ex can take partial responsibility in that success by never dropping the ball as well. Overnight shipping only and I buy these nice coolers from U-line that are $5-10 apiece after shipping to me and have nice thick walls. 1.25-1.5" thick. These thick walls give you the control you need to deal with any shipping circumstances. I can confidently ship in extreme heat or cold. Key is wrapping you rhot or cold pack up accordingly........if you just need a touch of hot or cold wrap the heck out of it in newspapper....so very little heat or cold will actually be added, nor will it get the bags close to it too hot or cold, and you rely on these thick walled coolers to keep the temp where you want it. Also wrap all the bags inside a black plastic bag. No light whatsoever makes the corals not try to respirate. Very little water or air in the bag is needs so you save on space and weight and can use the smallest cooler possible. Out of curiosity I had one guy measure the water temp for me in LA on arrival when it was 115 degrees out and I shipped anyway. Water was 81 degrees........more or less the same temp I keep my tanks at. I was pleased with that Bottom line dont scrimp on the shipping in materials or mess with multiple day shipping and you will greatly increase your odds of success. I knoiw a lot of people use them, bu t those makeshift coolers you buy that have seperate styrofoam walls absolutely SUCK. with air leakage like that out the walls you lose all control of what the temp inside will actually be. Ricordia and zoas of course cna handle a lot more swing than sps, but regardless......those boxes suck. did I already say that?? __________________ I like holding hands, snuggling, and long walks on the beach Last edited by flyyyguy; 10/23/2007 at 12:36 AM.

10/23/2007, 08:44 AM	#12
burris Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 257	Do you guys really ship acros/millis/montis/etc... in bags of water? For these species, isn't the best way to use the "dry" method?

10/23/2007, 09:49 AM	#13
jay24k Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Leesburg, Florida Posts: 6,546	I dont think it is the best way. I use Fedex also. I use 3 mil bags and I bought a heat sealer off ebay. Much better then rubber banding imo. I use the same bags and fill some water in it and freeze it for cheap ice packs. I buy styrofoam from Home depot and cut it to fit the box. Ship on Wednesdays just in case there is a delay. From what I read, O2 isn't really needed for corals during shipping and I've yet to lose a single one. When I shipped on ebay, I guarenteed my corals 100% within 2 hours of it being delivered. However, if one didn't make it and they seemed knowledgable, I'd toss in that frag again free on another shipment. My motto is treat others as you would expect to be treated when you buy.

10/23/2007, 10:02 AM	#14
burris Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 257	Why not? It seems that the problems described in this thread (weight, leaks, damage, suffocation) are not issues with the dry method. The books recommend dry method and surely they have tried shipping bags of water.

10/23/2007, 10:41 AM	#15
jay24k Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Leesburg, Florida Posts: 6,546	There are still corals that just won't make it. There have been articles on shipping dry and while it works for some, it seems water is easiest if it is truely overnight.

10/23/2007, 10:58 AM	#18
burris Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 257	Charles Delbeek and Julian Sprung are "EXTREMELY MISINFORMED" ?

10/23/2007, 11:05 AM	#19
ben&bobbi Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: mims, fl Posts: 1,063	maybe they will chime in and help us!

10/23/2007, 11:08 AM	#20
burris Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 257	How about Bruce Carlsson? Is he EXTREMELY MISINFORMED too? http://icb.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/39/1/44.pdf Maybe Eric Borneman is EXTREMELY MISINFORMED? http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-11/eb/index.php Maybe, just maybe, it is YOU who is EXTREMELY MISINFORMED. Are you prepared for that possibility?

10/23/2007, 11:15 AM	#23
burris Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 257	Charles Delbeek chiming in: http://coral.aoml.noaa.gov/pipermail...ry/001680.html

10/23/2007, 11:22 AM	#24
Serioussnaps Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,703	Oh man...maybe you should read the articles you post!!!!!! "I would have to say there are a number of factors involved in its success or failure."---FAILURE IS NOT AN OPTION "The submerged method works best for larger fragments or small colonies of branching corals. It is also less prone to rapid chilling during shipping"----WHAT, HUH? DELBEEK? WHAT? "When I ship larger fragments I send them in bags with 1/3 water and 2/3 oxygen, some plastics strips included for cushioning and the frags wrapped in plastic."---AGAIN? HUH? OH IN WATER? THATS RIGHT! So I am the misinformed one?

10/23/2007, 11:24 AM	#25
burris Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 257	You're not misinformed any more.