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02/18/2018, 05:26 PM | #101 |
Recovering Detritophobe
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Cary, NC
Posts: 7,443
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Vermetid Snail ELIMINATION - In tank Treatments
I have the space and some extra equipment, so I went ahead and set up a test tank.
Just a 10g tank with a heater and powerhead. Fluorescent strip light for observation. I put a bunch of spare LR from my sump into the tank which already has vermetids on it. I am going to try to let their population explode for a few weeks before trying any treatments. I figure I can feed them a daily dose of detritus - either siphon some from my frag tank or suck some up with a baster from the sump. I can feed some small particulate food if the detritus isn't cutting it or if I run out. My thing that I'm personally interested in trying is ground up NLS Ich Shield pellets (containing CP) as I mentioned above... potentially also something like CP bound to a particulate food using Seachem Focus. I already have all of these things, so easy for me to try. There are also some other good options listed on page two that I could move onto. If/when I find something that kills the vermetids, I also have some frags from the frag tank to run a test and see if the corals can withstand whatever treatment as well.
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If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right. I remember when zoanthids were called things like "green" and "orange" and not "reverse gorilla nipple." Current Tank Info: 180g reef with all the bells and whistles Last edited by LobsterOfJustice; 02/18/2018 at 05:57 PM. |
02/18/2018, 05:51 PM | #102 |
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Keep us informed please.
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250 gallon mixed reef, 2 Reefbreeder's Photon V 2, Deepwater BLDC 12, DAS EX-3 Skimmer, MTC mini cal, 2-3/4" Sea Swirls, Aquacontroller & 6 Tunze pumps. |
03/07/2018, 12:02 AM | #103 |
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If anyone is interested this is how I am dealing with the phosphates that were left behind by the Chloroquine Phosphate.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2667999
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Hobby Experience: 9200ish gallons, 26 skimmers, and a handful of Kent Scrapers. Current Tank: Vortech Powered 600G SPS Tank w/ 100gal frag tank & 100g Sump. RK2-RK10 Skimmer. ReefAngel. Radium 20k. |
03/07/2018, 04:36 AM | #104 |
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Location: Irondequoit, ny
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i wish there was an easier way for a full mixed reef.
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03/11/2018, 11:22 AM | #105 |
Recovering Detritophobe
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Cary, NC
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Not much to update - I was hoping that a few weeks of daily detritus feedings would make the population in the test tank explode but that doesn't seem to be the case. I guess they were more happy in my main system with a constant supply. So I think I'm going to initiate the first test today. Crush up some NLS ich shield pellets containing CP into a powder and broadcast feed the test tank. I will run some carbon to absorb any CP that leaches into the water column.
I think in my tank, the challenge is that I have a constant food supply. I run mechanical filtration, but I have a lot of fish, a lot of flow, and two diamond gobies, so detritus is getting produced (and remains in suspension) just as fast as its getting filtered out. At any given time I can see plenty of suspended particles floating around the DT. I run 3-5x sump turnover, I would like to run more but once you get to high output DC pumps the cost jumps from a few hundred to a few thousand... I have considered getting one of those small marineland internal diatom filters and running that inside the DT, maybe for a month or two, to try and polish their food from the water. I'm also thinking about biological competition options. I don't have any of those small feather duster hitch-hikers in my system because I have two angels and a butterfly that eat them. So maybe adding some competition for food source (suspended detritus) could help as well. Either adding some fresh LR rubble to the sump to increase biodiversity, or a few other kinds of ornamental filter feeders - maybe NPS corals/gorgonians, or even something less common like a filter feeding cucumber or feather starfish. If I have a good enough food supply for a few thousand vermetids, there has to be something else less invasive that would also eat the same thing.
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If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right. I remember when zoanthids were called things like "green" and "orange" and not "reverse gorilla nipple." Current Tank Info: 180g reef with all the bells and whistles |
03/11/2018, 01:09 PM | #106 |
Recovering Detritophobe
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Cary, NC
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The ground-up NLS ich shield absolutely resulted in a feeding response from the vermetids, and I could see particles get trapped by the nets, reeled in, and consumed... stay tuned.
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If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right. I remember when zoanthids were called things like "green" and "orange" and not "reverse gorilla nipple." Current Tank Info: 180g reef with all the bells and whistles |
03/12/2018, 06:50 AM | #107 |
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do you have micro brittle starfish? the live rock in my last tank was filled with them and they would wave their arms out trying to catch suspended food. might be an option unless the butterfly likes them too.
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Trying to learn to read Chinese. Current Tank Info: 24 cube a go, baby walks |
03/12/2018, 07:21 AM | #108 | |
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Quote:
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03/13/2018, 12:26 AM | #109 | |
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Quote:
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Hobby Experience: 9200ish gallons, 26 skimmers, and a handful of Kent Scrapers. Current Tank: Vortech Powered 600G SPS Tank w/ 100gal frag tank & 100g Sump. RK2-RK10 Skimmer. ReefAngel. Radium 20k. |
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03/13/2018, 09:09 PM | #110 | |
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Quote:
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Reef Savvy 110g Tank | GHL Profilux 4 Controller & Doser | Royal Exclusiv Skimmer & Dreambox/Sump | ATI 8x54 Sunpower T5 | Ozotech Ozone Generator |
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03/15/2018, 12:39 PM | #111 |
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Hobby Experience: 9200ish gallons, 26 skimmers, and a handful of Kent Scrapers. Current Tank: Vortech Powered 600G SPS Tank w/ 100gal frag tank & 100g Sump. RK2-RK10 Skimmer. ReefAngel. Radium 20k. |
03/15/2018, 03:32 PM | #112 |
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Here is a video showing how tangs eat the nls pellets without hesitation. I’ve experienced the same. https://youtu.be/paJXi8IaCP0
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Reef Savvy 110g Tank | GHL Profilux 4 Controller & Doser | Royal Exclusiv Skimmer & Dreambox/Sump | ATI 8x54 Sunpower T5 | Ozotech Ozone Generator |
03/15/2018, 05:20 PM | #113 |
Recovering Detritophobe
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Cary, NC
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Vermetid Snail ELIMINATION - In tank Treatments
Maybe the fish eat the pellets because there isn’t much CP in them...
After four days of 1x daily feeding of crushed ich shield pellets (vermetids visually confirmed to catch and consume pellet pieces) the vermetids are doing just fine. Along with all other typical LR microfauna (pods, Asterina and micro brittles, aiptasia, etc). Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right. I remember when zoanthids were called things like "green" and "orange" and not "reverse gorilla nipple." Current Tank Info: 180g reef with all the bells and whistles |
05/14/2018, 07:22 PM | #114 |
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Any progress ?
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05/15/2018, 09:15 PM | #115 |
Recovering Detritophobe
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Location: Cary, NC
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I tried lacing some food with ich shield powder but I wasn’t super careful about it and I think it got into the water so I’m not drawing any conclusions from that test. I needed the QT tanks for other things so the experiments are on pause. I did notice the population declining simply being in another tank, which to me is more evidence that my water is giving them constant food supply and even with daily detritus feeding their population somewhat declined.
I also have treated my DT twice with fenbendazole and the vermetids didn’t miss a beat. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right. I remember when zoanthids were called things like "green" and "orange" and not "reverse gorilla nipple." Current Tank Info: 180g reef with all the bells and whistles |
05/15/2018, 09:26 PM | #116 |
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I had a few of them and someone told me to try KZ coral snow... yea, I know you can make it yourself for about $5/5 gallons now but I digress. I started dosing it daily and those lil suckers kept spitting up their webs and now I don’t see any webs anymore. May depend on the variety you have but it worked for me.
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Originally posted by yellowslayer13: "I hate that hole" Current Tank Info: SCMAS Member 225 peninsula euroreef RS180 Apex 400W X 3 20k radiums / Spectra mixed SPS |
05/16/2018, 07:38 AM | #117 | |
Recovering Detritophobe
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Location: Cary, NC
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Vermetid Snail ELIMINATION - In tank Treatments
Quote:
I tried the DIY option (powdered CaCO3) with no effect. Might be worth trying the brand name though. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right. I remember when zoanthids were called things like "green" and "orange" and not "reverse gorilla nipple." Current Tank Info: 180g reef with all the bells and whistles |
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05/16/2018, 08:04 AM | #118 |
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I dosed daily baised on total water volume, not tank volume.
It may depend upon the brand of vermeted snails you have though.
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Originally posted by yellowslayer13: "I hate that hole" Current Tank Info: SCMAS Member 225 peninsula euroreef RS180 Apex 400W X 3 20k radiums / Spectra mixed SPS |
06/06/2018, 05:48 PM | #119 |
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fenbendazole
Has anyone been successful using fenbendazole against vermited snails? It seems a few folks in others posts found it worked and a few experienced the opposite. I’m wondering if it’s an issue of effective dosing strength? Thoughts?
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Reef Savvy 110g Tank | GHL Profilux 4 Controller & Doser | Royal Exclusiv Skimmer & Dreambox/Sump | ATI 8x54 Sunpower T5 | Ozotech Ozone Generator |
07/21/2018, 12:38 PM | #120 |
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interesten in update. very close to complete system reboot
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08/30/2018, 11:48 PM | #121 |
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Not necessarily completely important to this thread as CP concentration for vermatid snails seems to not matter so much, they're pretty easy to eradicate with cp.
Since I did this, the tank has been vermatid and flatworm (well all worm) free since a few days in. However, crypto got into the tank. Since I don't get any die off now when dosing cp as I haven't added anything to the tank I decided to use CP in the display to treat crypto. After an unsuccessful attempt i've purchased the lab equipment necessary to test for CP concentrations in saltwater. My first test run gave me surprising results. Without any degradation my concentration should be around 44mg/gal concentration. It's closer to 25mg/gal concentration. No wonder crypto treatment was unsuccessful.
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Hobby Experience: 9200ish gallons, 26 skimmers, and a handful of Kent Scrapers. Current Tank: Vortech Powered 600G SPS Tank w/ 100gal frag tank & 100g Sump. RK2-RK10 Skimmer. ReefAngel. Radium 20k. Last edited by tkeracer619; 08/31/2018 at 12:28 AM. |
09/01/2018, 06:46 PM | #122 | |
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Quote:
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09/01/2018, 08:16 PM | #123 | |
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Quote:
I talked with Humblefish after reaching out to Reeffever without any response and he showed me some interesting information regarding this. Apparently if the chloroquine contains metabolite the metabolite will also register at 343 so a different process is required to separate the two components to get an accurate measurement of the active component. So it's better than nothing and probably accurate enough for us but I'm going to investigate further. Beyond that, something very interesting appears to be happening. I can't actually dose enough CP to get the display to 40mg/gal safely. It appears bacteria is breaking down the CP rapidly. The more I dose, the quicker it breaks down. So fast that I am likely to abort dosing the display, last night I dosed the tank up to 27mg/gal and this morning 12 hours later it was down to 17mg/gal. The 40mg/gal sample from new SW I made on Thursday is still testing out at 40mg/gal. So while CP probably works well on a freshly started QT and certainly nuked my vermatids and flat worms, it's a stretch that this med can be used in a display tank to treat fish. Obviously every system is different but at least in my case the CP is metabolized and removed at a rate faster than I want to dose CP.
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Hobby Experience: 9200ish gallons, 26 skimmers, and a handful of Kent Scrapers. Current Tank: Vortech Powered 600G SPS Tank w/ 100gal frag tank & 100g Sump. RK2-RK10 Skimmer. ReefAngel. Radium 20k. Last edited by tkeracer619; 09/01/2018 at 08:52 PM. |
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09/02/2018, 07:04 AM | #124 | |
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I started my a new build last year by treating with CP in my new tank build. I started it out out as a fish only system for the first 90 days. A powder blue tang and a dozen other fish were the first to go into the DT. At 90 days I stopped the treatment and within a month after that I started adding LPS and soft corals without issue. A year later and I haven't had a single disease problem. The LFS owner also maintains tanks for customers and has dosed it successfully in a few systems now. With an established system, you start with a 1/4 dose to avoid too much die off at once and any resulting ammonia spike. These are just some real life experiences. Nothing scientific but it works and is safe. Good luck with your setup. I'm sure you will get to where you want to be soon enough.
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09/02/2018, 11:19 AM | #125 | |
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Hobby Experience: 9200ish gallons, 26 skimmers, and a handful of Kent Scrapers. Current Tank: Vortech Powered 600G SPS Tank w/ 100gal frag tank & 100g Sump. RK2-RK10 Skimmer. ReefAngel. Radium 20k. |
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