Lanthanum chloride

[bertoni]

Okay, that sounds like progress. Please let us know how the corals respond. I'd definitely drop the level slowly.

[tom g]

so far so good nothing looking any diff torches and hammers till fluffy and puffy .. zoas open ill watch it closely

[tom g]

well two day at 10 ml for one day and bumped up to 15 ml , phosphates are at .29 a little too fast for me . gonna lay off and lower to 10 ml for next dose
looking good so far , no diff in the corals leathers or zoas ..
keeping my fingers crossed

[bertoni]

I'm glad that the corals are doing well. I agree that the drop might be a bit more than I'd want.

[slief]

Originally Posted by tom g

well last nite I officially started lanthium chloride , I added 10 mls of lanthium and I changed batteries on my phosphate tester , from .57 last nite to .47 today , still being dripped in ,into a sock . hopefully it drops a bit more and I will up the dosages so I don't drastically drop phosphates

Depending on what you have in your tank, you need to make sure you don’t drop your Po4 level too fast. First of all, while .17 ppm is a bit on the high side for many peoples liking but it’s not necessarily an issue. It all depends on whether it’s in balance with the nitrates. There are other factors as well such as the age and health of the system along with inhabitants. I have a very healthy and thriving reef that is packed end to end with thriving corals of all types. My tank has been up and running at this house for over 20 years and regularly have Po4 levels at .25ppm and have zero issues with nuisance algae. My nitrates are right at 25ppm when my Po4 levels are that high and that ratio is a good balance (read on redfield ratio).

That said, the issue with dropping levels too much and too fast is two fold. First, is a rapid change in nutrients that corals and anemones don’t like. Second, the use of LaCl to drop the Po4 levels will drop alkalinity rapidly. The more you drop your Po4, the more the alk will drop when using this approach. It’s really critical to monitor your alk levels before and after because you could end up killing some coral if you aren’t careful. It’s good you’re using filter socks and hopefully they are 10 micron or less because the precipitate can kill some fish. If you see any clouding at all, you are doing it wrong and harming your fish.

I’ve used LaCl regularly for many years. I’ve learned to never drop my Po4 a max of .05ppm in a 24 hour period and when I dose LaCl, I generally will space my doses apart by 2 or more days. Here is a video I put together discussing my method, doses and considerations.

[tom g]

Hey thank u very much and I too agree I am a little shicked at how fast it dropped I will space apart the dosing as u rec...i have been monitoring parameters like crazy ...but will pay attention to alk ...no cloudiness in water and I may just dose at nite when the fish are not as active ....thanks again and I will chk out your video when I get home ....thanks again...

[tom g]

So I got home have not had a chance to chk out vid bit that's next with dinner ...
I chk phosphates with the Hanna .17 yes way to fast .I have taken doser offline i will wait till Sunday and start drip in again... ph is down from a steady 8.0 to a 7.0 with a Milwaukee meter.
Alk is down to 6.0 with a Hanna tester .
Cal is 450
Mag is 1200

My question is do i top up with kalk or let it be..
I have to say my hammers and torches are puffy as hell
Leathers are plump and zoas are looking good ...
Is this something I can aim for in numbers everything looks good ...
Thanks
Tom

[bertoni]

pH at 7.0 is hard to believe. Are you sure it's not higher? That should be a measurement error.

The alkalinity might be dropping due to the lanthanum chloride or increased growth. Some lanthanum will precipitate as lanthanum carbonate.

Kalk is a fine way to add calcium and alkalinity, but I'm not sure I'd have two experiments in progress at the same time. I'd probably just add a bit of baking soda to get the dKH up to at least 7 for the daily low. Maybe the tester is a bit off, but the number seems to be reasonable.

[tom g]

Well the ph meter could be wonky I will try to grab a test kit tommorow. I will let it stabilize and add some kalk ...

I will prob continue treatment on Sun or mon
Thanks for the help

[bertoni]

You're welcome. I don't believe the 7.0 pH reading. The rock would start dissolving at some point around there.

[tom g]

What do u mean the rock would start melting ...???

[bertoni]

As the pH drops, calcium carbonate becomes more soluble, and eventually the rock would dissolve. That's how calcium reactors work.

[tom g]

ok well that is something I did not know ...I will have to do some reading ...

[slief]

Originally Posted by tom g

So I got home have not had a chance to chk out vid bit that's next with dinner ...
I chk phosphates with the Hanna .17 yes way to fast .I have taken doser offline i will wait till Sunday and start drip in again... ph is down from a steady 8.0 to a 7.0 with a Milwaukee meter.
Alk is down to 6.0 with a Hanna tester .
Cal is 450
Mag is 1200

My question is do i top up with kalk or let it be..
I have to say my hammers and torches are puffy as hell
Leathers are plump and zoas are looking good ...
Is this something I can aim for in numbers everything looks good ...
Thanks
Tom

If the LaCl dosing dropped the Alk that low which I am sure it had an impact, it's a good thing you don't have a bunch of SPS because they likely would have RTN'd which the Alk drop. Hammers and soft coral are much less sensitive to sudden drops though I've seen hammers bleach a bit as a result. As bertoni noted, a ph of 7.0 is hard to believe though I would expect a pH drop to accompany a large Alk drop. Just not that much. As noted, prolonged exposure to low pH like that will dissolve the rocks but it takes time and isn't something you would see overnight. In fact, it would take months for them to loose noticeable mass at 7.0. Those of us who run calcium reactors typically run a pH of 6.7 or less.

[michael guenther]

in long using of lanthaium chloride, waht harmful it makes to inverebrates

[bertoni]

Lanthanum chloride generally seems to be safe if the precipitate is trapped and removed, and the phosphate level isn't changed too quickly. The precipitate seems to harm some fishes, possibly by clogging their gills, and sudden changes in the phosphate level might be cause problems for some corals.

[michael guenther]

file:///C:/Users/MICHA/Downloads/20180405_084730.jpg

[bertoni]

That picture is available only on your computer.

[yacn]

Originally Posted by bertoni

Lanthanum chloride generally seems to be safe if the precipitate is trapped and removed, and the phosphate level isn't changed too quickly. The precipitate seems to harm some fishes, possibly by clogging their gills, and sudden changes in the phosphate level might be cause problems for some corals.

i used Brightwell Aquatics Phosphate-E. I measure the appropriate amount per the directions and dilute that with RO water and slowly drip it into my sump right before my skimmer. I don't use a sock. I have noticed a few fish (mainly tangs) breathe heavy while dosing this product....which bums me out, but it only lasts for one day, and my phosphates have dropped like the product said it would.

I'm only using this product periodically to slowly lower my phosphates because my phosphates are really high, and once I get them lower I plan to use Rowa Phos GFO in a reactor to lower the phosphates on a more regular basis.

Am I supposed to drip Phosphate-E into a sock?

[bertoni]

Does it form a whitish precipitate? If so, I'd use a sock to trap the powder. Brightwell doesn't give much information on the contents on their web site.

[michael guenther]

you must trap the powd erimidyetly in a sepparatrd reactor, because in the moment the wahter comes in contakt with lansanum it happens

[slief]

Originally Posted by yacn

i used Brightwell Aquatics Phosphate-E. I measure the appropriate amount per the directions and dilute that with RO water and slowly drip it into my sump right before my skimmer. I don't use a sock. I have noticed a few fish (mainly tangs) breathe heavy while dosing this product....which bums me out, but it only lasts for one day, and my phosphates have dropped like the product said it would.

I'm only using this product periodically to slowly lower my phosphates because my phosphates are really high, and once I get them lower I plan to use Rowa Phos GFO in a reactor to lower the phosphates on a more regular basis.

Am I supposed to drip Phosphate-E into a sock?

If you fish are breathing heavy, you aren’t using the stuff properly and you ARE harming your fish. Unfortunately the instructions included on that stuff as well as other liqueid Po4 removers don’t tell you that you should use a filter sock and that’s likely because they would sell less of their product if they included that information. Your fish and breathing heavy because of the precipitate from the LaCl and the only way to prevent that is to use a 10 micron or finer sock. Plus, by using the sock, you are actually removing the precipitated Po4 from the water instead of allowing it to settle into your substrate. And dosing into or in front of the skimmer will not solve the issue as you have already learned.

[yacn]

thanks Slief

I will lower the dosage and use a filter sock if I use Phosphate E again.

I am due to check my phosphates this weekend....hoping they are low enough to stop using Phosphate E and go with GFO instead

I'm also installing a ATS this weekend which I hope helps