Can you over Skim a tank?

shortfuse9113 · 03/14/2013, 06:32 PM

Hello,

I am setting up a 60 gallon cube after not having been really deep in the hobby the last few years. I am running a 30 gallon sump underneath and I am looking to get a new protein skimmer. I am planning on upgrading to a much larger tank and would like to "Buy Once Cry Once" and get a skimmer that will continue on to the next tank... I currently own a Bullet 2 Precision Marine Skimmer but dont want to use it because of the Huge footprint and I would need to buy a new pump... I was wondering if a AquaMaxx EcoMaxx EM200 would "Over Skim" and cause any issues? The reviews seem really good on it and I like the small footprint and overall build quality.

Thanks,
Mike G

shortfuse9113 · 03/14/2013, 06:35 PM

If "over skimming" is an issue I am looking at the Reef Octopus 4 instead... but I would really like the AquaMaxx if its ok...

Thanks Again
Mike G

shortfuse9113 · 03/14/2013, 06:55 PM

Or should I just use the Bullet 2 and grab a Mag 18 for it? Any advice will be helpful thanks.

hogfanreefer · 03/14/2013, 07:23 PM

Good luck finding the Aquamax. I can't find one in stock anywhere.

Raimond42 · 03/14/2013, 07:29 PM

If you remove a cup full of green water everyday then yes. If you are removing dark skimmate then it does not matter how large the cup is. Tracking?

Windirmere · 03/14/2013, 10:01 PM

the cup of green water is over skimming?

worm5406 · 03/14/2013, 10:05 PM

Well it is WET skim... maybe try to thicken it up some by dialing it back a 1/4 turn. Depending on what type you have that is.

PAnanoguy · 03/15/2013, 06:46 AM

Hey Shortfuse, I have a Reef Octopus 4 (NWB110) used for sale. Was too small for my tank. $120 plus shipping.

nynick · 03/15/2013, 07:52 AM

You can't over skim but you can get a skimmer that is too large to function properly with your bioload, which would be under skimming.

danil · 03/15/2013, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nynick

You can't over skim but you can get a skimmer that is too large to function properly with your bioload, which would be under skimming.

".. too large to function properly.." that does mean over skimming. Yes you can and will over skim your tank if much bigger skimmer is used. Manufactures rate their skimmers based on average bio load but we love to feed our fish a lot and put many of them in our tanks so getting a slightly bigger skimmer is OK. With lower bio load, DSB, fudge, socks over skimming can became an issue even with the skimmer rated for your tank size. Some skimmers skim better then others but size does matter.

hkgar · 03/15/2013, 10:53 AM

Just curious, since some are saying you can over skim, what is the detrimental effect on a tank if it is over skimmed?

Don't we want to remove all dissolved organics from the tank? I have always thought, wrongly I guess, that when there is nothing to skim, the skimmer just stops producing?

worm5406 · 03/15/2013, 11:15 AM

But just like people... Living off of 100% oxygen causes problems.

A slightly dirty tank can handle fluctuation better compared to a clean room.

Sk8r · 03/15/2013, 11:26 AM

Let's talk beyond water removal---if you are growing lps or softie corals, too good a skimmer is going to take nutrients from them: remember that they are living filters, and if underfed, they will not do as well. Likewise fish like mandarins rely on copepods, which in turn rely on algaes. Your snails and crabs and other inverts make their living from waste. So yes, if you are doing sps corals, that require crystal-clear water, strong skimming is a good idea. If not, survey your inhabitants and figure what you will lose if you do that. Same goes for hyper-removal of phosphate through a gfo. A lot is bad for corals; too little is bad, too.

coralsnaked · 03/15/2013, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sk8r

Let's talk beyond water removal---if you are growing lps or softie corals, too good a skimmer is going to take nutrients from them: remember that they are living filters, and if underfed, they will not do as well. Likewise fish like mandarins rely on copepods, which in turn rely on algaes. Your snails and crabs and other inverts make their living from waste. So yes, if you are doing sps corals, that require crystal-clear water, strong skimming is a good idea. If not, survey your inhabitants and figure what you will lose if you do that. Same goes for hyper-removal of phosphate through a gfo. A lot is bad for corals; too little is bad, too.

+1 Well said and nothing else to add

Merry Skerry

hkgar · 03/15/2013, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sk8r

Let's talk beyond water removal---if you are growing lps or softie corals, too good a skimmer is going to take nutrients from them: remember that they are living filters, and if underfed, they will not do as well. Likewise fish like mandarins rely on copepods, which in turn rely on algaes. Your snails and crabs and other inverts make their living from waste. So yes, if you are doing sps corals, that require crystal-clear water, strong skimming is a good idea. If not, survey your inhabitants and figure what you will lose if you do that. Same goes for hyper-removal of phosphate through a gfo. A lot is bad for corals; too little is bad, too.

It seems that this would mean that if you want to have an SPS tank, heavy skimming is good. But if you had the living filters you mentioned they would be deprived of food source and therefore not do well. Therefore you should not have them in an SPS tank as that would at the least be cruelity.

Not trying to be sarcastic, just logical

nynick · 03/15/2013, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danil

".. too large to function properly.." that does mean over skimming.

Nope, you can have a skimmer that is large enough to not be able to maintain foam well. To make a very extreme example, if you take a skimmer rated for 500 gallons and put it on a normal 20gallon tank you will probably not get any skimmate at all since there will likely not be enough dirt to travel up to the cup. Dimensions of a skimmer are based on expected bioloads, if this wasn't the case they would all look the same with different pumps.

Less extreme example, my Deltec HoB that is a beast on my 90g and rated from 120 to 185 produces no skimmate at all on a 20g. More accurately, it made a ton of skimmmate but the bubbles would just not make it into the cup before breaking.

Too big can very well mean under skimming or not skimming at all.

Sk8r · 03/15/2013, 01:05 PM

That's why we say if you want to do well with sps corals, concentrate on those. If you want to do well with lps, do them. Softies have their own constraints and often conduct chemical warfare, necessitating carbon run nearly constantly.

hkgar · 03/15/2013, 01:33 PM

I assume that snails and crabs that feed on detrius could do OK in an SPS tank if there is some food waste?

markandamber11 · 03/15/2013, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nynick

You can't over skim but you can get a skimmer that is too large to function properly with your bioload, which would be under skimming.

i concure as well i think we are tim the toolman when it comes to skimmers we always think bigger is better

shortfuse9113 · 03/15/2013, 02:19 PM

I want to do mostly SPS but I want zoos and mushrooms as well since I enjoy the way they look... also some stuff life pulsating xenia and star polyps... Would any of that cause issues with "over skimming" if so what skimmer would be best for me? Any recommendations of Octopus vs Aquamaxx skimmers? I also have a Coralife Super Skimmer for a 65 gallon tank... but that thing seems to suck.

hkgar · 03/15/2013, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shortfuse9113

I want to do mostly SPS but I want zoos and mushrooms as well since I enjoy the way they look... also some stuff life pulsating xenia and star polyps... Would any of that cause issues with "over skimming" if so what skimmer would be best for me? Any recommendations of Octopus vs Aquamaxx skimmers? I also have a Coralife Super Skimmer for a 65 gallon tank... but that thing seems to suck.

Zoo's and star polyp might be ok with SPS, but Zenia and mushrooms can take over a tank and raise holy H chemically with your SPS

danil · 03/18/2013, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shortfuse9113

I want to do mostly SPS but I want zoos and mushrooms as well since I enjoy the way they look... also some stuff life pulsating xenia and star polyps... Would any of that cause issues with "over skimming" if so what skimmer would be best for me? Any recommendations of Octopus vs Aquamaxx skimmers? I also have a Coralife Super Skimmer for a 65 gallon tank... but that thing seems to suck.

What is a good skimmer? Some parameters to be aware of: 1. Noise . 2. Hum. 3. Did I say noise already?

Another one - overflowing. If you thought to get external (hand on) type think again. Even good one (read expensive) can overflow in no time when you add this "awesome super liquid" in your tank water. Size. It does matter a lot if you have small sump or no sump at all. Footprint and height check them both! It should be some space between skimmer cup and your tank for you to take cup off.
So I wouldn't wary about over-skimming there are so many other more important things to wary about

. Yes it is possible but you can always shut the noisy thing down for good!

03/14/2013, 06:32 PM	#1
shortfuse9113 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 61	Can you over Skim a tank? Hello, I am setting up a 60 gallon cube after not having been really deep in the hobby the last few years. I am running a 30 gallon sump underneath and I am looking to get a new protein skimmer. I am planning on upgrading to a much larger tank and would like to "Buy Once Cry Once" and get a skimmer that will continue on to the next tank... I currently own a Bullet 2 Precision Marine Skimmer but dont want to use it because of the Huge footprint and I would need to buy a new pump... I was wondering if a AquaMaxx EcoMaxx EM200 would "Over Skim" and cause any issues? The reviews seem really good on it and I like the small footprint and overall build quality. Thanks, Mike G

03/14/2013, 07:23 PM	#4
hogfanreefer Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Conway, AR Posts: 2,117	Good luck finding the Aquamax. I can't find one in stock anywhere. __________________ DSA 155,Custom Trigger 42" sump/refugium, MP40 X2, MP 10 X 2, AI Hydra 52 X3, Apex controller, Tunze ATO Current Tank Info: DSA 155 gallon, mixed reef, SPS and wrasse dominant

03/14/2013, 07:29 PM	#5
Raimond42 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Southern California Posts: 107	If you remove a cup full of green water everyday then yes. If you are removing dark skimmate then it does not matter how large the cup is. Tracking? __________________ Freedom is not free, support the troops! If you can read this thank a Teacher, because its in English thank a Veteran. Current Tank Info: 120g FOWLR, 25 Gal Sump 10 Gal Refugium.

03/14/2013, 10:05 PM	#7
worm5406 Not afriad to admit wrong Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: South of WashDC in Maryland Posts: 7,774	Well it is WET skim... maybe try to thicken it up some by dialing it back a 1/4 turn. Depending on what type you have that is. __________________ Stock:LPS/SPS\|1 hippo\|4 OC Clown\|4 Pepp shrimp\|2 Brittle Star\|3000+ Copepods\|10+ MiniBrittle\|8+ Bristle Worm\|2 Anemone\|100+ mini-feather\|4 boys 14,21,22,22 Current Tank Info: Tank:300g Mixed Reef 300+lb LR\|4" LS\|5x MP40W\|75g fuge\|5x RadionPRO\|RO DB250 skimmer\|Apex

03/15/2013, 06:46 AM	#8
PAnanoguy Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Red Lion, PA Posts: 441	Hey Shortfuse, I have a Reef Octopus 4 (NWB110) used for sale. Was too small for my tank. $120 plus shipping. __________________ 120 Gallon Mixed Reef Apex Controller, (1) Radion XR30w Gen 1 with Gen 3 upgrade, (1) Radion XR30w Gen 3, MP10ESw, MP40ESw, Bubble Magus NAC7 skimmer, Eheim 1260 retun pump, Eshopps 2 channel doser,

03/14/2013, 06:35 PM	#2
shortfuse9113 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 61	If "over skimming" is an issue I am looking at the Reef Octopus 4 instead... but I would really like the AquaMaxx if its ok... Thanks Again Mike G

03/14/2013, 06:55 PM	#3
shortfuse9113 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 61	Or should I just use the Bullet 2 and grab a Mag 18 for it? Any advice will be helpful thanks.

03/14/2013, 10:01 PM	#6
Windirmere Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Courteny BC Canada Posts: 452	the cup of green water is over skimming?

03/15/2013, 07:52 AM	#9
nynick Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 1,029	You can't over skim but you can get a skimmer that is too large to function properly with your bioload, which would be under skimming.

03/15/2013, 10:53 AM	#11
hkgar Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Dewitt MI Posts: 5,051	Just curious, since some are saying you can over skim, what is the detrimental effect on a tank if it is over skimmed? Don't we want to remove all dissolved organics from the tank? I have always thought, wrongly I guess, that when there is nothing to skim, the skimmer just stops producing? __________________ Gary 180 gallon, 40 gallon sump, 3 250 W MH + 4 80W ATI T5's, MTC MVX 36 Skimmer, Apex controller Aquamaxx T-3 CaRx Current Tank Info: A 2 Barred Rabbitfish, Red Head Salon, Yellow/Purple, McMaster Fairy, Possum, 2 Leopard Wrasses, Kole, & Atlantic Blue Tangs, 2 Percula Clown, 3 PJ and 1 Banggai Cardinalfish , Swallowtail, Bellus and Coral Beauty Angels

03/15/2013, 11:15 AM	#12
worm5406 Not afriad to admit wrong Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: South of WashDC in Maryland Posts: 7,774	But just like people... Living off of 100% oxygen causes problems. A slightly dirty tank can handle fluctuation better compared to a clean room. __________________ Stock:LPS/SPS\|1 hippo\|4 OC Clown\|4 Pepp shrimp\|2 Brittle Star\|3000+ Copepods\|10+ MiniBrittle\|8+ Bristle Worm\|2 Anemone\|100+ mini-feather\|4 boys 14,21,22,22 Current Tank Info: Tank:300g Mixed Reef 300+lb LR\|4" LS\|5x MP40W\|75g fuge\|5x RadionPRO\|RO DB250 skimmer\|Apex

03/15/2013, 11:26 AM	#13
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	Let's talk beyond water removal---if you are growing lps or softie corals, too good a skimmer is going to take nutrients from them: remember that they are living filters, and if underfed, they will not do as well. Likewise fish like mandarins rely on copepods, which in turn rely on algaes. Your snails and crabs and other inverts make their living from waste. So yes, if you are doing sps corals, that require crystal-clear water, strong skimming is a good idea. If not, survey your inhabitants and figure what you will lose if you do that. Same goes for hyper-removal of phosphate through a gfo. A lot is bad for corals; too little is bad, too. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

03/15/2013, 01:05 PM	#17
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	That's why we say if you want to do well with sps corals, concentrate on those. If you want to do well with lps, do them. Softies have their own constraints and often conduct chemical warfare, necessitating carbon run nearly constantly. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

03/15/2013, 01:33 PM	#18
hkgar Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Dewitt MI Posts: 5,051	I assume that snails and crabs that feed on detrius could do OK in an SPS tank if there is some food waste? __________________ Gary 180 gallon, 40 gallon sump, 3 250 W MH + 4 80W ATI T5's, MTC MVX 36 Skimmer, Apex controller Aquamaxx T-3 CaRx Current Tank Info: A 2 Barred Rabbitfish, Red Head Salon, Yellow/Purple, McMaster Fairy, Possum, 2 Leopard Wrasses, Kole, & Atlantic Blue Tangs, 2 Percula Clown, 3 PJ and 1 Banggai Cardinalfish , Swallowtail, Bellus and Coral Beauty Angels

03/15/2013, 02:19 PM	#20
shortfuse9113 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 61	I want to do mostly SPS but I want zoos and mushrooms as well since I enjoy the way they look... also some stuff life pulsating xenia and star polyps... Would any of that cause issues with "over skimming" if so what skimmer would be best for me? Any recommendations of Octopus vs Aquamaxx skimmers? I also have a Coralife Super Skimmer for a 65 gallon tank... but that thing seems to suck.