Reef Central Online Community

Home Forum Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences View New Posts View Today's Posts

Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Search Reefkeeping ...an online magazine for marine aquarists Support our sponsors and mention Reef Central

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > Marine Fish Forums > Reef Fishes
Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

Reply
Thread Tools
Old 09/08/2017, 10:00 PM   #1
bobkill
reefer
 
bobkill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Norman
Posts: 839
How will the change in Hawaiian law affect the hobby

As the title says , I am wondering with the recent change in law in Hawaii, what will the expectations be to the common or average hobbyist ?
No more chevrons?


__________________
The darkside
bobkill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/08/2017, 10:56 PM   #2
CoralsAddiction
Registered Member
 
CoralsAddiction's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: L.A./Tahoe
Posts: 5,679
I'm curious to follow this from the legal standpoint more than aquarium industry effects. This law could be short lived if the fishing industry lobbies hard. It'd be interesting to see if any side will invoke Interstate Commerce clause since the ocean is technically "navigable" and is subject to federal regulation. I'm no expert in maritime law but this legal process should be very interesting to follow.
Potentially competing interests are: burden on interstate commerce vs. state's interest in protecting its resources.
Any maritime lawyers or consitutional law professors on this forum feel free to chime in. Lol


CoralsAddiction is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/08/2017, 11:17 PM   #3
ThRoewer
Registered Member
 
ThRoewer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Fremont, CA
Posts: 7,768
First off, there was no change in the law. The ruling was that the issuing of the collection permits didn't follow current law.

Also, as of now all issued permits stay valid until they expire. Only new permits or renewals will not be issued (until the proceeding to follow the law are met).


__________________
Pairs: 4 percula, 3 P. kauderni, 3 D. excisus, 1 ea of P. diacanthus, S. splendidus, C. altivelis O. rosenblatti, D. janssi, S. yasha & a Gramma loreto trio
3 P. diacanthus. 2 C. starcki

Current Tank Info: 200 gal 4 tank system (40x28x24 + 40B + 40B sump tank + 20g refugium) + 30x18x18 mixed reef + 20g East Pacific biotop + 20g FW +...
ThRoewer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/09/2017, 09:37 AM   #4
d-man
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: San Diego, ca
Posts: 2,435
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobkill View Post
As the title says , I am wondering with the recent change in law in Hawaii, what will the expectations be to the common or average hobbyist ?
No more chevrons?
Lol, chevrons...


d-man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/09/2017, 11:19 AM   #5
humaguy
Premium Member
 
humaguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Western Ct, NYC
Posts: 7,888
Quote:
Originally Posted by d-man View Post
Lol, chevrons...
is there a laughing emoji with coffee coming out its nose? there should be..

Derek is a silly goose...funny!


humaguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/09/2017, 01:44 PM   #6
ThRoewer
Registered Member
 
ThRoewer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Fremont, CA
Posts: 7,768
I don't have much interest in Hawaiian fish, so I don't expect it to affect me much. I am however concerned that this could become a starting point for more to come.

The whole thing is coming from those activists that in their most extreme want to outlaw having pets (and of course farm animals) entirely.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


__________________
Pairs: 4 percula, 3 P. kauderni, 3 D. excisus, 1 ea of P. diacanthus, S. splendidus, C. altivelis O. rosenblatti, D. janssi, S. yasha & a Gramma loreto trio
3 P. diacanthus. 2 C. starcki

Current Tank Info: 200 gal 4 tank system (40x28x24 + 40B + 40B sump tank + 20g refugium) + 30x18x18 mixed reef + 20g East Pacific biotop + 20g FW +...
ThRoewer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/09/2017, 03:26 PM   #7
CoralsAddiction
Registered Member
 
CoralsAddiction's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: L.A./Tahoe
Posts: 5,679
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThRoewer View Post
The whole thing is coming from those activists that in their most extreme want to outlaw having pets (and of course farm animals) entirely.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
Weren't you the one who wants to ban all designer clownfishes for sale? LOL
Just a joke by the way.


CoralsAddiction is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/09/2017, 11:46 PM   #8
d-man
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: San Diego, ca
Posts: 2,435
Quote:
Originally Posted by humaguy View Post
is there a laughing emoji with coffee coming out its nose? there should be..

Derek is a silly goose...funny!
Lol thanks Ted


d-man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/10/2017, 07:31 PM   #9
joejoe1055
Registered Member
 
joejoe1055's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: cullman,Alabama
Posts: 739
most of the buzz fish wise has been about the yellow tang


__________________
grrrrr

Current Tank Info: 180 reef in progress
joejoe1055 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/10/2017, 09:10 PM   #10
hogfanreefer
Registered Member
 
hogfanreefer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Conway, AR
Posts: 2,111
We dove Kona last year. I looked through my pictures last night....several hundred. I couldn't find a single picture that wasn't a close up that didn't have at least one yellow tang in it. They are protected in 70% of their range and their numbers are increasing by all estimates.

This is not about the fishery at all. It's about an agenda. As THRoewer said, they won't be happy till any use of animals by man is outlawed.


__________________
DSA 155,Custom Trigger 42" sump/refugium, MP40 X2, MP 10 X 2, AI Hydra 52 X3, Apex controller, Tunze ATO

Current Tank Info: DSA 155 gallon, mixed reef, SPS and wrasse dominant
hogfanreefer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/12/2017, 10:29 PM   #11
ca1ore
Grizzled & Cynical

 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Stamford, CT
Posts: 16,234
I don't pay all that much attention to where fish come from ..... Anything sourced from H that cannot be found elsewhere?


__________________
Simon

Got back into the hobby ..... planned to keep it simple ..... yeah, right ..... clearly I need a new plan! Pet peeve: anemones host clowns; clowns do not host anemones!

Current Tank Info: 450 Reef; 120 refugium; 60 Frag Tank, 30 Introduction tank; multiple QTs
ca1ore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/12/2017, 11:12 PM   #12
CoralsAddiction
Registered Member
 
CoralsAddiction's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: L.A./Tahoe
Posts: 5,679
Quote:
Originally Posted by ca1ore View Post
I don't pay all that much attention to where fish come from ..... Anything sourced from H that cannot be found elsewhere?
Yellow Tang (for the most part), Kole tang, Potters Angel, Hawaiian flame wrasse, white spotted puffer.. just to name a few.
Petco still has many of the Hawaiian fishes for sale at their stores.


CoralsAddiction is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/12/2017, 11:21 PM   #13
Kremis
Registered Member
 
Kremis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 435
one of my LFS had about 50 yellow tangs for 20$ each, dont think they got the memo. I think that some yellow tangs are found outside of hawaii, so they wont be impossible to obtain. prob see a price increase though


Kremis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/13/2017, 01:01 AM   #14
Half Vaped
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 368
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoralsAddiction View Post
Yellow Tang (for the most part), Kole tang, Potters Angel, Hawaiian flame wrasse, white spotted puffer.. just to name a few.
Petco still has many of the Hawaiian fishes for sale at their stores.
Not to mention some of Hawaii's swankier offerings, like the Bandit Angel, Personatus Angel, Tinkeri Butterfly and Yellow Anthias.


Half Vaped is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/13/2017, 01:30 AM   #15
CoralsAddiction
Registered Member
 
CoralsAddiction's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: L.A./Tahoe
Posts: 5,679
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kremis View Post
I think that some yellow tangs are found outside of hawaii, so they wont be impossible to obtain. prob see a price increase though
Some make it to Guam but outside of that I don't know how far and how many. Video below shows one in Guam.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TxVLDkO_myE


CoralsAddiction is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/13/2017, 05:57 AM   #16
alton
Registered Member
 
alton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Zuehl, Texas
Posts: 3,818
The following is what RT Distributors posted
NEWS Update! See at end for more details. Hawaii Supreme Court is requiring all Hawaii aquarium fish permit holders to do an EIS study. DLNR has stopped issuing or renewing any more permits. Worst case if we lose our small mesh net permits we can only fish with nets of 2 inch mesh or bigger. That means smaller fishlike wrasses may be hard to come by from Hawaii at the time our permits expire. My permit is good for 10 months and luckily my diver's permits are good for 11 months. Many others are not so lucky with only a month or two left; so there is a legal push to rectify this now. Help us with the fight now at end below. The fishery studies have already been done and we are sustainable and fish counts are up so the whole thing is just another permit process just added on. Hopefully we can use our permits until the EIS id done and that is what the big legal push is for.

The problem was when some aquarist saw the ruling they went out and bought up yellow tangs just because they thought they would not be available in the future. Creating a yellow tang shortage, and now having a tang they probably did not want but got caught up in the hype and made a bad purchase.


alton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/13/2017, 08:27 AM   #17
ca1ore
Grizzled & Cynical

 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Stamford, CT
Posts: 16,234
Again, I'm woefully uninformed on this issue frankly ..... but who wouldn't be in favor of ensuring the collection process is sustainable, and limiting that collection to sustainable practices. Absent foolish collection approaches like cyanide and dynamite, I've always thought that the ornamental trade is unlikely to be a major contributor to fish stocks - certainly not compared to food fishing and the like. I tend to not get my knickers in a twist over these things because they usually end up being less dramatic than the initial sensationalist reports suggest.


__________________
Simon

Got back into the hobby ..... planned to keep it simple ..... yeah, right ..... clearly I need a new plan! Pet peeve: anemones host clowns; clowns do not host anemones!

Current Tank Info: 450 Reef; 120 refugium; 60 Frag Tank, 30 Introduction tank; multiple QTs
ca1ore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/13/2017, 09:25 AM   #18
d-man
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: San Diego, ca
Posts: 2,435
Yes the problem is currently that the permits are annual, so unless a collector renewed their permits recently it's most likely going to effect a lot of them in the next 6ish months.
Also because their has been such a big financial push to get this done its has more drive than the smaller collectors who can't spend $$$ to fight back. So overturning it is pretty unlikely. I mean we know how our government never has hidden agendas or $$$ going in the back pocket from interest groups....oh wait never mind.
It will effect our hobby 100%. Maybe not a huge portion initially, but at some point 3-5yrs there will be an effect.


d-man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/13/2017, 10:06 AM   #19
Half Vaped
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 368
I think it's still too early to freak out. From what I understand, permit renewal and issuance is only prohibited until further studies are made and reviewed by state agencies.

Most of the scientific studies seem to support that Hawaii's aquarium fish collection industry is sustainable. Since most of Hawaii's politicians are from the party that believe climate change is man-made, there's a chance that science will prevail.


Half Vaped is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/13/2017, 10:59 AM   #20
brett559
Registered Member
 
brett559's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Visalia, CA
Posts: 1,663
Stock up on yellow tangs now!!!!!


__________________
Office Tank: CAD Lights 42 gallon (30x18x18), 16 gallon sump, Skimz SN143 skimmer, MP10 x2, Tunzo ATO, MaxSpect Razor LED

House Tank: Nuvo 20 gallon, MP10, Tunze ATO, Radion XR15W G4 Pro LED
brett559 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/13/2017, 10:12 PM   #21
ThRoewer
Registered Member
 
ThRoewer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Fremont, CA
Posts: 7,768
If it was just for Yellow Tangs I would just say good riddance. But this goes much further.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ca1ore View Post
Again, I'm woefully uninformed on this issue frankly ..... but who wouldn't be in favor of ensuring the collection process is sustainable, and limiting that collection to sustainable practices. Absent foolish collection approaches like cyanide and dynamite, I've always thought that the ornamental trade is unlikely to be a major contributor to fish stocks - certainly not compared to food fishing and the like. I tend to not get my knickers in a twist over these things because they usually end up being less dramatic than the initial sensationalist reports suggest.
I don't think money is the issue alone - the collectors would definitely get support from Aquarium organizations and possibly also companies like Petco.
There is also no need to get this overturned as it isn't a ban. The court just found that the current process of issuing permits doesn't follow existing laws. What is needed is an impact evaluation how the capture affects the numbers of the collected fish.


__________________
Pairs: 4 percula, 3 P. kauderni, 3 D. excisus, 1 ea of P. diacanthus, S. splendidus, C. altivelis O. rosenblatti, D. janssi, S. yasha & a Gramma loreto trio
3 P. diacanthus. 2 C. starcki

Current Tank Info: 200 gal 4 tank system (40x28x24 + 40B + 40B sump tank + 20g refugium) + 30x18x18 mixed reef + 20g East Pacific biotop + 20g FW +...
ThRoewer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10/28/2017, 04:04 PM   #22
albano
SALTWATER since '73
 
albano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Katonah, NY/ San Fernando Ca./ Sea Isle City NJ
Posts: 5,824
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThRoewer View Post
First off, there was no change in the law. The ruling was that the issuing of the collection permits didn't follow current law.

Also, as of now all issued permits stay valid until they expire. Only new permits or renewals will not be issued (until the proceeding to follow the law are met).
Apparently that just changed
All valid licenses have been suspended. There is no legal collection effective immediately.

http://m.hawaiinewsnow.com/hawaiinew...tguid=FlhtwFVs


__________________
______________________________________

Jan. '11 TOTM Manhattan Reefs

Current Tank Info: 450g DT/700g reef system
albano is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10/28/2017, 07:47 PM   #23
d-man
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: San Diego, ca
Posts: 2,435
Yeah this hurts

Quote:
Originally Posted by albano View Post
Apparently that just changed
All valid licenses have been suspended. There is no legal collection effective immediately.

http://m.hawaiinewsnow.com/hawaiinew...tguid=FlhtwFVs



d-man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10/28/2017, 09:26 PM   #24
caribfan
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,852
I'm obviously not an expert on the geography and collection laws in this island chain, but is the ruling specific to just Hawaii (the big island??).

Are any of the outlying island affected, Kona, etc...


__________________
Matt

Current Tank Info:
50 Breeder Quarantine Tank, 240 Miracles Finally up and running, 29 Biocube - AI Nano
caribfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10/28/2017, 09:42 PM   #25
albano
SALTWATER since '73
 
albano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Katonah, NY/ San Fernando Ca./ Sea Isle City NJ
Posts: 5,824
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribfan View Post
I'm obviously not an expert on the geography and collection laws in this island chain, but is the ruling specific to just Hawaii (the big island??).

Are any of the outlying island affected, Kona, etc...
All islands of the state


__________________
______________________________________

Jan. '11 TOTM Manhattan Reefs

Current Tank Info: 450g DT/700g reef system
albano is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:53 AM.


TapaTalk Enabled

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2017 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright 1999-2014