Pairing Clownfish

[JHardman]

Originally posted by ezhoops
Also, I have not seen the male quiver once, I guess I am just not willing to give up. But perhaps I should.

Time for another potential mate.

[ezhoops]

IF I recall you said that ORA usually has small 1" GSM and that my LFS should be able to get them for me?

Thanks again, hopefully this one will work out better than the last. IT is gonna break my students hearts to remove one of their "little friends". try try and try again.

[mikestod]

Here's my situation. I have a small Clarkii (1.5") in a 10 gallon nano, and I've had it for about 6-8 months. At this point I'm assuming its changed to female. I think originally it was in a tank with a half a dozen others all of the same size. Would the best way to attempt to pair this fish be to get another small one, and hope that it has not established any sex yet, or at least not female?

For clarification I'm going to introduce both into my 65g at the same time.

Also, this may be off topic, but I'd like to get the pair to host in an anemone eventually, but I don't have one yet. Would either fish being tank raised make a difference for this possibility?

[JHardman]

Originally posted by mikestod
Here's my situation. I have a small Clarkii (1.5") in a 10 gallon nano, and I've had it for about 6-8 months. At this point I'm assuming its changed to female. I think originally it was in a tank with a half a dozen others all of the same size. Would the best way to attempt to pair this fish be to get another small one, and hope that it has not established any sex yet, or at least not female?

For clarification I'm going to introduce both into my 65g at the same time.

Also, this may be off topic, but I'd like to get the pair to host in an anemone eventually, but I don't have one yet. Would either fish being tank raised make a difference for this possibility?

Here is what I would do...

When you are ready move the existing A. clarkii to the new tank. Move the fish then wait 2-4 weeks for the fish to get comfortable and claim her territory. Then introduce a small juvenile from a community tank. They should pair up pretty fast this way.

Adding both at the same time to a new tank may not work as well. One of the things you want to happen is for the larger, female in this case, to focus her attention completely on the new fish. If you add both at the same time, this will not be the case, she will be trying to adjust to the sudden change in her world and the new fish might well become a secondary concern.

Yes hosting is off topic for this thread. Checkout the anemone FAQ and do a little searching in this forum. The question is asked and answered regularly.

[ezhoops]

Alright last question regarding my GSM & WSM pairing. They peacefully live together in my 29 Gal. Will they possibly pair up? as I said the male does not show submissive behavior, the female doesn't really mind him but doesn't let him too close to "her" territory. My goal is to have a pair, if this will never happen with these two fish I will move on. Could they live together without pairing up?
Please Advise

[JHardman]

Originally posted by ezhoops
Alright last question regarding my GSM & WSM pairing. They peacefully live together in my 29 Gal. Will they possibly pair up? as I said the male does not show submissive behavior, the female doesn't really mind him but doesn't let him too close to "her" territory. My goal is to have a pair, if this will never happen with these two fish I will move on. Could they live together without pairing up?
Please Advise

If they haven't paired up yet, then they will likely never will. Most unsuccessful pairings between maroons are the result of not having a large enough size difference between the two fish.

No they will likely not live peacefully together. Sooner or later the new fish will grow, become female and now you have two females in a small tank which is a formula for disaster.

[ezhoops]

Back to square one, just for the record even when you do get a "male" to get along with a female they don't always pair up.

Now to find a new male, LFS just got a new shipment from ORA, hope their tiny GSM's.
Thanks again

[MPA]

Yesterday I found a tomato clown at my LFS that was around 5 in long. She's huge. I was told she came from Malaysia. She looked really healthy so I brought her home. The LFS told me that she would not be compatible with my original tomato clown (about 2 in long). The larger clown is bright neon orange and the other is bright red. (See pic)

I put the new on in the tank and nothing happened, except for a little checking each other out. The smaller on swam up to the new large clown 3-5 times and kind of turned a little sideways and then would swim around it. No aggressive behavior from either. The old clown likes to hang out up in the top corner of the tank near the sump return. It looked like it was trying to show the new clown where it lived for a while. The new clown finally found a place it liked and stays there about half the time. The other half it's swimming around the tank.

Does this sound like they might pair up under the right conditions? They are supposed to be from two different parts of the world.

Also would removing a little damsel be good to limit distractions for them in the tank?

[MPA]

another pic

[MPA]

and another pic

[JHardman]

Originally posted by MPA
Does this sound like they might pair up under the right conditions? They are supposed to be from two different parts of the world.

Also would removing a little damsel be good to limit distractions for them in the tank?

Well not only are they from different parts of the world, they are different species of clownfish. The smaller red'ish fish is a A. frenatus aka tomato and the larger orange'sih colored fish is an A. melanopus aka cinnamon.

So they may or may not pair up. Mixed species pairings are unique and sometimes pairing happens right off the bat, sometimes you will never get a pair from them. From your description you are fighting an up hill battle with these two.

Your best bet would be to not try to form a mixed species pairing.

Yes, it is always good to get rid of the nasty little damsels.

[MPA]

Thanks Jhardman.

I've been following this post for a while, but didn't see any mention of corals in the tank.

It's 38gl w/ 96w 10 k PC, 96 w acintic, 175w 10 k mh. I'm gonna take the damsel and tomatoe out and get a cinnamon to try to make a pair. Would I have a better chance of them laying eggs w/o stuff like xenia, frogsapwn, or acro's in the tank?

[MPA]

hey jhardman,

I was talking with a friend of mine that bought this same fish from another local LFS, he said that this orange clown is a "malaysian tomatoe clown" and that it can be distinguished from a cinnamon clown by it's larger adult size, yellow tail, and all black fins.

what do you think???
This sounds correct, but .....

[JHardman]

Originally posted by MPA
hey jhardman,

I was talking with a friend of mine that bought this same fish from another local LFS, he said that this orange clown is a "malaysian tomatoe clown" and that it can be distinguished from a cinnamon clown by it's larger adult size, yellow tail, and all black fins.

what do you think???
This sounds correct, but .....

Nope, the Malaysian variant is well documented is quite red, not orange. Check out this link, http://wish.wodonga.tafe.edu.au/~kwaldon/fren.htm Kylie lists the Malaysian variant as #069

Then compare your fish to this link... http://wish.wodonga.tafe.edu.au/~kwaldon/mela.htm

I have no doubt that you have a cinnamon there.

[MPA]

Thank You JHardman.

those links are great!!

[CRG]

After reading through the FAQ on pairing Maroon Clownfish, I purchased a small juvenile from a community tank and placed him in a specimen container for 1 day. On the second day I let the male out of the container, which the female seemed to tolerate. However, it has been two days since letting the male out and the female still refuses to let the male into the BTA with her. When rushed by the female, the male shows characteristic submissive behavior, but I'm unsure why the female does not respond to this behavior appropriatly (ie. allowing the male into her territory). Should I be more patient or is this a pairing that is simply not meant to be?

Also, the female will gently tug at the male's pectoral fins, but stops short of actual damage. I'm not sure whether this is a negative behavior or whether it's just normal.

Your help is appreciated.

Cory

[Trumpet12]

Thank you, JHardman!
That information is very useful!!!

[JHardman]

Originally posted by CRG
After reading through the FAQ on pairing Maroon Clownfish, I purchased a small juvenile from a community tank and placed him in a specimen container for 1 day. On the second day I let the male out of the container, which the female seemed to tolerate. However, it has been two days since letting the male out and the female still refuses to let the male into the BTA with her. When rushed by the female, the male shows characteristic submissive behavior, but I'm unsure why the female does not respond to this behavior appropriatly (ie. allowing the male into her territory). Should I be more patient or is this a pairing that is simply not meant to be?

Also, the female will gently tug at the male's pectoral fins, but stops short of actual damage. I'm not sure whether this is a negative behavior or whether it's just normal.

Your help is appreciated.

Cory

I think you are misunderstanding the normal behavior of the female. The appropriate response to the juveniles submission is for her not kill "him" or in other words she stops her attack short of damage. Rather the female will let a newly "accepted" fish into her host is a really a fish by fish thing. I would not expect to see both in a host for several weeks or even months.

I haven't seen the tugging on the pectoral fins behavior as you describe it, but as long as there isn't any damage I wouldn't worry.

[CRG]

JHardman...

Thank you for the quick reply. I suppose I should just be more patient and be thankful that the female has not yet killed the male. However, I have one more question...

If the female does not eventually allow the male into her territory, will the two fish still constitute a pair in the traditional sense? I'm eventually hoping for a close bond between the two (ie. spawning).

Thanks,
Cory

[Atticus]

Should this be in the Frequently Asked Questions or do you want it open for more questions to be asked in this thread?

[Atticus]

OOOpps never mind I see it is linked there... I just didn't know the thread would still come to the top of the forum.

[JHardman]

Originally posted by CRG
JHardman...

Thank you for the quick reply. I suppose I should just be more patient and be thankful that the female has not yet killed the male. However, I have one more question...

If the female does not eventually allow the male into her territory, will the two fish still constitute a pair in the traditional sense? I'm eventually hoping for a close bond between the two (ie. spawning).

Thanks,
Cory

It is just a phase, they will grow inseparable over time, but don't be surprised if there a few spats in the mean time.

[ezhoops]

let me update...I was too late in removing my juvenile (male) WSM from the tank, they were tolerating each other and even in the clay pot together and the male even shivered. This after aprox 1 month together. I wake up the next day to find the WSM was dead? I have no idea what happened (I know most of you will assume the female killed him but I honestly don't believe that) any how when I woke up the clown was being eaten by my c.c. star. I have since tried another smaller male this time a GSM and so far things are going well. The male was in a specimen container for 1 day and then released. HE immediately began shivering and kissing her cheeks and anywhere on her sides. She did chase him and scare him into hiding for a night but He is out.

I also have a Similar question to the above post. My female has a BTA in her territory. The male stays on the opposite side of the tank and the female goes over and visits with him. He will run out to greet her and shiver and kiss her like crazy. But she will not allow him near her area. Will this change? Also, Will She eventually force him over to her territory if they do pair up and spawn?

[JHardman]

Originally posted by ezhoops
let me update...I was too late in removing my juvenile (male) WSM from the tank, they were tolerating each other and even in the clay pot together and the male even shivered. This after aprox 1 month together. I wake up the next day to find the WSM was dead? I have no idea what happened (I know most of you will assume the female killed him but I honestly don't believe that) any how when I woke up the clown was being eaten by my c.c. star. I have since tried another smaller male this time a GSM and so far things are going well. The male was in a specimen container for 1 day and then released. HE immediately began shivering and kissing her cheeks and anywhere on her sides. She did chase him and scare him into hiding for a night but He is out.

If there were pieces of him missing then you could figure the female was to blame. You should also have seen torn fins if it was her. When I have seen a female kill a juvenile/male it always ended with a bite to the belly disemboweling it or a bite to the spine just behind the head.

Originally posted by ezhoops
I also have a Similar question to the above post. My female has a BTA in her territory. The male stays on the opposite side of the tank and the female goes over and visits with him. He will run out to greet her and shiver and kiss her like crazy. But she will not allow him near her area. Will this change? Also, Will She eventually force him over to her territory if they do pair up and spawn?

Bickering phase... it will pass with time.

[ezhoops]

By time I woke up I couldn't really even make out that my WSM was even a fish, the C.C. star works fast. (I have him in there just for that reason) keeps ammonia outbreaks to Zero