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Unread 03/05/2012, 09:35 AM   #51
KafudaFish
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaring Afro View Post
I didn't think there were that many (relatively speaking). I mean, I knew there were a lot but I didn't think they reproduced and spread anywhere near like the snakeheads do (or did since those are just everywhere now). I just personally feel everyone is going with the motto to kill them when I feel it should be more towards capturing with killing on the side to fill in the extra.

One thing I'd like to know is how many of the same type are still being brought to our aquarium trade from their native home. imo people should be able to know if it's from florida at the lfs and on live aquaria etc and choose to support the situation in that way.
Yes but if a snakehead has been found in a small body of water the treatment has been to kill everything in the water and hope for the best. If they get into a major river etc. it is game over which has happened now.
The snakeheads do the exact same thing that the lionfish do.

Again it is about numbers. Yes it would be good to get invasive ones for the trade but even if everyone who has ever been on RC got one for free regardless of tank size then what?


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Unread 03/05/2012, 02:55 PM   #52
karsseboom
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Originally Posted by rpjaws74 View Post
maybe fish think the same about us!!! No natural predators and over fishing!
You can't be serious....


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Unread 03/05/2012, 03:34 PM   #53
hllywd
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There are a few extremely naive views of this issue being expressed here. I dive a few times off Deerfield Beach, Florida every year when visiting. In the last two years I've gone from hearing about them, to seeing them on every dive.

I believe that if you kill every one you see on every dive you'll never eradicate them. Why? The range they live at is so wide, from the surface down to a suspected 500' or so is about 450' beyond what any recreational diver can reach. Live catch and sell them to pet shops? The market isn't that great. Supply would far outpace demand. Additionally, many I've seen would be far too large for my 210! Selling them to the aquarium trade isn't really part of a solution, there are just too many.

My personal view of the situation is that divers killing as many of them as possible is the best answer until a better way is found.

What to do with them? I say pan fried, or ceviche...

Tim

BTW, I don't think I saw it explained here, but I've read articles pointing to the source of the invasion leading back to hurricane Andrew in 1992. It's believed captive fish were released into the wild by the storm.


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Unread 03/05/2012, 03:45 PM   #54
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Large eels, frogfish and other scorpion fish are all predators of lionfish in the wild...
http://lionfishhunter.blogspot.com/2...preditors.html
Shall we go for another cane toad episode?


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Unread 03/05/2012, 03:47 PM   #55
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[QUOTE=hllywd;19973952]
What to do with them? I say pan fried, or ceviche...

QUOTE]

WHOO HOO. I SAY LETS TURN THIS INTO A RECIPE THREAD!!

pan fried, with wasabe and soy sauce dip. mmmm

batter fried with a teriyaki glaze

blackened with a pontchartrain sauce

lionfish poke with macadamias

mmm mmmm.


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Unread 03/05/2012, 05:35 PM   #56
flyhigh123
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i personally would love to try a large lionfish. being on the west coast, i wouldnt mind if it was flash frozen...


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Unread 03/05/2012, 08:59 PM   #57
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I'm a little concerned about fileting them without getting stung. Fileting fish is problematic enough when you have half a case of beer in ya. Maybe the alcohol will protect me from its venom. That's going to be my excuse to my wife anyway!


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Unread 03/05/2012, 09:43 PM   #58
hllywd
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Originally Posted by Fin Mike View Post
I'm a little concerned about fileting them without getting stung. Fileting fish is problematic enough when you have half a case of beer in ya. Maybe the alcohol will protect me from its venom. That's going to be my excuse to my wife anyway!
You carry a set of shears with you and cut the venemous spines off before removing the fish from the spear so you can handle the fish safely. No problems stuffing then into a collection bag, or onto a stringer that way.


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Unread 03/06/2012, 07:28 AM   #59
Jeremy Blaze
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In my line of work we deal with many invasive species.

Very difficult to control.

We could list invasive plants and animals that have established themselves all day long.

As much of a fan of lionfish that I am, killing these are the only logical option to control.


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Unread 03/06/2012, 08:46 AM   #60
Luiz Rocha
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hllywd View Post
There are a few extremely naive views of this issue being expressed here. I dive a few times off Deerfield Beach, Florida every year when visiting. In the last two years I've gone from hearing about them, to seeing them on every dive.

I believe that if you kill every one you see on every dive you'll never eradicate them. Why? The range they live at is so wide, from the surface down to a suspected 500' or so is about 450' beyond what any recreational diver can reach. Live catch and sell them to pet shops? The market isn't that great. Supply would far outpace demand. Additionally, many I've seen would be far too large for my 210! Selling them to the aquarium trade isn't really part of a solution, there are just too many.

My personal view of the situation is that divers killing as many of them as possible is the best answer until a better way is found.

What to do with them? I say pan fried, or ceviche...

Tim

BTW, I don't think I saw it explained here, but I've read articles pointing to the source of the invasion leading back to hurricane Andrew in 1992. It's believed captive fish were released into the wild by the storm.
I agree, it is practically impossible to eradicate them at this point. I saw a video from a submarine at the Bahamas that recorded a Lionfish happily swimming around at 1,000 feet depth. But even if impossible to eradicate, keeping their populations down through fishing is still a good thing for the native populations in the reefs.

As for the source of the introduction, there are several hypotheses out there, but only two things are actually known for sure: 1) The introduction started with very few individuals, approximately around 20; and 2) they came from the aquarium trade. The actual source of the introduction is not well known.

The 1992 hurricane Andrew source is one of the explanations, but it is also entirely possible that they came from people releasing them in Florida when they got too big for their tanks. There are dozens of other Indo-Pacific species seen in the reefs in Florida, and the source of their introduction is likely the later (people don't want to kill or give away their fish if they get too big and just release them). Most of these other species haven't established viable populations yet, but if introductions continue they will soon be spreading out like the Lionfish.


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Unread 03/06/2012, 10:01 AM   #61
Jeremy Blaze
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Another hypothesis was they were released by recreational divers in the tourism business.


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Trust me my friend, the names are not important at all. I've own hundreds of different zoas and palys and don't know the name of a single one. In my opinion, they are a waste of valuable time.
Mucho Reef
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Unread 03/06/2012, 10:32 AM   #62
hllywd
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www.lionfishhunters.org


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Unread 03/06/2012, 12:49 PM   #63
Luiz Rocha
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Blaze View Post
Another hypothesis was they were released by recreational divers in the tourism business.
First time I hear about this one. Is there any evidence for this?


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Unread 03/06/2012, 12:53 PM   #64
Jeremy Blaze
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luiz Rocha View Post
First time I hear about this one. Is there any evidence for this?
Such an old topic, I am not sure where the info would be now. But this was one of the first rumors when they strated showing up a few years ago.


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Trust me my friend, the names are not important at all. I've own hundreds of different zoas and palys and don't know the name of a single one. In my opinion, they are a waste of valuable time.
Mucho Reef
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Unread 03/06/2012, 01:34 PM   #65
Luiz Rocha
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Blaze View Post
Such an old topic, I am not sure where the info would be now. But this was one of the first rumors when they strated showing up a few years ago.
Interesting, I will look it up, so the divers just thought the pretty Lionfish would make the reefs more "attractive" to tourists? There is a lot of anecdotal evidence for aquarium releases (and a lot of other aquarium species introduced).


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Unread 03/06/2012, 01:40 PM   #66
Jeremy Blaze
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Yes, when this first became a story 5 or so years ago, it was one of the theroes, and was talked about a lot. Some even said they knew who did it.

Just as you say, it made some dive sites interesting and profitable.

Seems more realistic than hundreds of people dumping their pet loins ofter years of care and growth.


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Trust me my friend, the names are not important at all. I've own hundreds of different zoas and palys and don't know the name of a single one. In my opinion, they are a waste of valuable time.
Mucho Reef
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Unread 03/06/2012, 01:46 PM   #67
hllywd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Blaze View Post
Such an old topic, I am not sure where the info would be now. But this was one of the first rumors when they strated showing up a few years ago.
Old topic? Maybe in the midwest, but it's a daily current event in the affected areas.


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Unread 03/06/2012, 01:51 PM   #68
Jeremy Blaze
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Originally Posted by hllywd View Post
Old topic? Maybe in the midwest, but it's a daily current event in the affected areas.
Sorry. I did not mean old as it not relivent, I meant old, as in this was discussed very heavily a few years ago, and I have not kept up with it as of late.

I know there were stories in the fish mags several years ago, it was a hot topic at macna, in Boston, I believe, thats when they were talking about the divers planting them.


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Trust me my friend, the names are not important at all. I've own hundreds of different zoas and palys and don't know the name of a single one. In my opinion, they are a waste of valuable time.
Mucho Reef
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Unread 03/06/2012, 02:04 PM   #69
Luiz Rocha
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Blaze View Post
Yes, when this first became a story 5 or so years ago, it was one of the theroes, and was talked about a lot. Some even said they knew who did it.

Just as you say, it made some dive sites interesting and profitable.

Seems more realistic than hundreds of people dumping their pet loins ofter years of care and growth.
So, based on genetics, one thing we do know is that the initial introduction consisted of very few individuals, certainly not hundreds. Best estimates are around 20 individuals for the original introduction.


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Unread 03/07/2012, 05:56 AM   #70
RubberFrog
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Do we have an idea where the first introduction took place?


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Unread 03/07/2012, 07:44 AM   #71
hllywd
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Originally Posted by RubberFrog View Post
Do we have an idea where the first introduction took place?
http://www.lionfishhunters.org/


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Unread 03/07/2012, 08:08 AM   #72
Luiz Rocha
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Do we have an idea where the first introduction took place?
South Florida.


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Unread 03/07/2012, 12:26 PM   #73
billsreef
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Blaze View Post
Another hypothesis was they were released by recreational divers in the tourism business.
Haven't heard that one before. Though I have heard the possibility raised that some individuals in the wholesale end of the aquarium trade might have released some to establish a local source. That allegation has also been made about a number of other exotic introductions, both fish and reptile found in South Florida.


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Unread 04/03/2012, 10:11 PM   #74
johngayle1
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diver and reefer jupiter fl on lionfish

I scuba dive in Jupiter fl and see average of 5 to 7 lionfish every dive very evasive species with no predators. The worst part is they eat and prey on small and juvenile reef fishes veracious appetites


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Unread 04/04/2012, 02:09 PM   #75
jdhuyvetter
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I've heard multiple theories:

1 - Hurricane Andrew (which I personally think is BS for a bunch or reasons)
2 - Hobbyist release from aquariums (that's how Florida got many of it's cichlids)
3 - Atlantis Resort in the Bahamas (it is my understanding that the open air aquarium is also open filtered with Atlantic ocean water and at one point, the effluent was not filtered or treated. So, any spawning event got dumped in to the surrounding Atlantic)


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