the secret to colorful,healthy corals....obvious to some,elusive to many

[dkeller_nc]

Don't get me wrong - my tank is very far from eutrophic. I do go to the standard efforts to keep dissolved organic matter and mineralized nutrients to a minimum. Typical mineralized nutrient values are very near the detection limit of the tests, though presumably they are not zero. The idea is to keep mineralized nutrients to a minimum and nutrients in the form of small micro and macroscopic creatures available.

This is quite different than the goal when I started this addiction in the early 1990's. At that time, very few deliberately fed their corals anything other than the microscopic life that the tank would generate on its own.

As you pointed out, there's no-one-size-fits-all for water conditions that will generate success for all of the corals we'd like to keep, and the general philosophy present in the early 1990's is pretty good evidence of that. Certain types of photosynthetes were pretty easy to keep and grow, but some of them were virtually impossible - goniopora is probably the best know example.

[elegance coral]

Originally Posted by dkeller_nc

There's only one difficulty with this analogy (though I certainly understand the logic). Coral reefs are not so nutrient poor as has been previously assumed. Yes, it is very true that the seawater around them is extremely low in dissolved, mineralized nutrients such as PO4 and NO3.

But overall, they are bathed in a nutrient bath of zooplankton and phytoplankton, which is not something that we can currently reproduce in our tanks. The extent of this wasn't recognized until very recently - coral reefs were originally thought to be "nutrient deserts".

So it would make sense that many have experienced better overall coral health by letting mineralized nutrients run much higher than typical ocean water values because corals are heterotrophic, and can potentially adapt from one source of nutrients to another to some degree.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...ght=ecosystems

I know it's a long thread, but it would probably be worth while for you to read it. If you don't have the time, check out post number 98, on page 4.

It would be very, very difficult for you to retain your beliefs after reading the above thread.

Peace
EC

[SantaMonica]

goniopora is probably the best know example

Wouldn't you know, that one was one of my favorite long-term successes of the time.

[TankStudy]

If I'm understanding this correctly we want organic phosphates but not inorganic phosphates. I've read posts of people saying zooanthids/palythoas need some amount of phosphates and people always put a reference range of what they believe is good. Do zooanthids/palythoas use the inogranic phosphates too then or are people mistaking the organic phosphates which is not measurable, if I'm not mistaken, with the inogranic phosphate?

Any input would be greatly appreciated. I've gone thru a few pages of the posts and most deal with SPS, I'd like to know about the relationship between zoas/palys and phosphates as well.

[SantaMonica]

All photosynthetic corals make "organic" phosphate from inorganic phosphate. The organic is glucose, and it is partially consumed by the coral, and partially released into the water to feed microbial laters, which are also consumed by the coral.

My favorite organic phosphate, however, is peanut butter

[MHG]

A very interesting reed. Someone mentioned on page 5 about someone with stable parameters varying alkalinity for a few weeks to see what happened with the colors. I messed around with several things in my tank for two years. Searching for a clue to why frags would lose color and some would die within a couple of weeks. First I messed with light. Having access to a par meter, I found I was cooking them at 900 par... Lowering the light did not help...some palys responded well to lower light but not sps. Messing with alk levels did nothing as well. Too high i get rtn. To low i get rtn. Keeping them between 6-8 and no issues...Zero to no growth on all sps (except my purple stylo and green birdsnest)...I thought it could not possible be low nutrients because of all the great tanks out there with zero nutrients...

After about a year and a half with no growth... I mean NO growth...like the same 10 heads of zoas and a tank full of frags, I decided to feed heavily and get my nitrates up. Within a few weeks zoa heads were popping up, and frag plugs were getting encrusted. Within 3 months I was fragging some corals to keep them from touching. Within 6 months I frag monthly... Colors came back on 90% of my corals within 7 months...

[thabizness]

A couple of questions MHG cause I am going thru the same thing with very little growth. I test 0 Nitrates and 0 Phosphates and have started to feed more heavily mainly reef chilli, and frozen to my nems. I feed my fish pellets daily. I have went from 10 gallons every week to 10 gallons every two weeks. This is all an attempt to start detecting nitrates and phosphates. I do grow chaeto with other algae in the sump.

How much more did you feed? What was the par values for the zoas? Did you have any other forms of nutrient export? Skimmer?

Biz

Originally Posted by MHG

A very interesting reed. Someone mentioned on page 5 about someone with stable parameters varying alkalinity for a few weeks to see what happened with the colors. I messed around with several things in my tank for two years. Searching for a clue to why frags would lose color and some would die within a couple of weeks. First I messed with light. Having access to a par meter, I found I was cooking them at 900 par... Lowering the light did not help...some palys responded well to lower light but not sps. Messing with alk levels did nothing as well. Too high i get rtn. To low i get rtn. Keeping them between 6-8 and no issues...Zero to no growth on all sps (except my purple stylo and green birdsnest)...I thought it could not possible be low nutrients because of all the great tanks out there with zero nutrients...

After about a year and a half with no growth... I mean NO growth...like the same 10 heads of zoas and a tank full of frags, I decided to feed heavily and get my nitrates up. Within a few weeks zoa heads were popping up, and frag plugs were getting encrusted. Within 3 months I was fragging some corals to keep them from touching. Within 6 months I frag monthly... Colors came back on 90% of my corals within 7 months...

[Reefin' Dude]

Originally Posted by MHG

After about a year and a half with no growth... I mean NO growth...like the same 10 heads of zoas and a tank full of frags, I decided to feed heavily and get my nitrates up. Within a few weeks zoa heads were popping up, and frag plugs were getting encrusted. Within 3 months I was fragging some corals to keep them from touching. Within 6 months I frag monthly... Colors came back on 90% of my corals within 7 months...

more reefer logic. corals need an initial source of organic N and P. we have been "told" by some that waste products of algae will provide this to our corals, not completely the case. corals need to be fed heavily, only those that are worried about nutrients will tell you otherwise. the bigger question is what is going on with waste products from all of that feeding. the corals have developed a symbiotic relationship with the algae/bacteria within them. they tightly recycle N and P amongst themselves, but there still needs to be constant input of new N and P for the corals to get the process started and bring in new building materials. the reason being is because readily available inorganic N, P, and CO2 are not readily available on a healthy oligotrophic reef. if it was, then the algae/bacteria would not need to live inside the coral.

G~

[SantaMonica]

I decided to feed heavily

Yes corals do need lots of food particles to grow. The trick is how to feed them while controlling nitrate and phosphate at the same time. (Hint: skimmers remove food particles).

Somewhere on RC is a big thread on feeding your corals so they will grow.

[kc350twin]

Really great thread. I've been struggling with sps colors for a bit now and this topic hits home.

[sahin]

The answer to colourful SPS isnt a secret. Ask most of the old timers and they will say something like this:

1. Keep stable parameters: Alk, Ca, Mg, etc.
I dont worry about Mg too much. I top up sometimes if required. But I maintain strict control on Alk and Ca by using a doser. A calcium reactor is perfectly fine as well. Even hand dosing is fine if you can do it daily every day.

2. Keep NO3 below 5ppm and PO4 around 0.03ppm
I have seen these two parameters way higher in some tanks and SPS colours are still fine (take a look at member Big E; he has around 0.1ppm PO4, but excellent SPS colour), but usually PO4 is the one to keep a close eye on; not only because of SPS browning out, but to keep algae growth minimal. Use GFO in small amounts regularly.

3. Feed your tank generously.
I think this is where a lot of people have issues. We dont feed our tanks as much as we should. With GFO, a decent skimmer and water changes in place you should be able to feed the tank generously and maintain parameters as set out above. Essentially you need HIGH INPUT + HIGH WASTE OUTPUT.
Look through threads where the SPS are highly coloured (not pale like Zeo, but strong deep colouration) and if you ask the reef keeper about feeding they will usually tell you they feed their tank generously.

4. Carry out at least 10% water changes per week.
Water changes are one of the best things you can do for your tank during the stage where you are trying to colour up your SPS and especially when your tank is less than 1 years old.

5. Run a decent skimmer for your sized tank.
Pretty much easy enough. Keep it clean etc. Clean cup weekly. I clean whole skimmer every 3 months.

6. Run appropriate sized LED/T5/MH unit for your tank.
As long as most SPS get around 200-250PAR they will colour up nicely. Some acros might need higher, but that generally is sufficient.

7. Stop messing with the tank; trying this potion and that potion.
I think too many people miss the basics and start to mess around with additives; eg adding Amino Acids etc. This also means keep the hand out of the water as much as possible. Invest is a PAR meter if possible and after acclimating on the sand bed, moving to an appropriate place higher up on the rockwork has never caused me any problems.

8. Have patience.
It usually take anywhere between 6-12 months of a tanks life before SPS start to colour up. If your rocks and sand are ultra clean and fresh then that period may be a lot shorter, but dont expect too much before that. It can take 6-12 months of water changes, using GFO and decent skimming to get the system clean enough for good SPS colour. That combined with the biological filtration maturing should set things up for nice colours.

9. Try and buy aquacultured frags.
I have around 50/50 aquacultured and wild/mari pieces. On the whole, my cultured SPS colour up much more readily than the wild pieces.

The above are like a collection of advice I have seen usually given by those who know the secret. Thats my experience as well. The secret isnt a secret. Its already out there. You just have to put the whole lot together and be consistent. Do that and your SPS will reward you with colours as what I have below:













If you search my current thread, I have a few more photos as well as photos taken with JUST camera flash and no other lighting so you can see that the colours are not just an effect of a particular style of lighting.

I am no expert or SPS guru. I simply followed the basics of reefkeeping (geared towards SPS - eg higher flow and lighting etc). I do not run Zeovit, organic carbon dosing, Biopellets etc etc. Though these tools may be used, and will help, not usually required IMO.

Stick to the basics. Keep it simple.

PS I hope I dont sound arrogant or anything like that. I just wanted to highlight that its not difficult at all. Anyone can achieve it.

[frags7]

Originally Posted by sahin

The answer to colourful SPS isnt a secret. Ask most of the old timers and they will say something like this:

1. Keep stable parameters: Alk, Ca, Mg, etc.
I dont worry about Mg too much. I top up sometimes if required. But I maintain strict control on Alk and Ca by using a doser. A calcium reactor is perfectly fine as well. Even hand dosing is fine if you can do it daily every day.

2. Keep NO3 below 5ppm and PO4 around 0.03ppm
I have seen these two parameters way higher in some tanks and SPS colours are still fine (take a look at member Big E; he has around 0.1ppm PO4, but excellent SPS colour), but usually PO4 is the one to keep a close eye on; not only because of SPS browning out, but to keep algae growth minimal. Use GFO in small amounts regularly.

3. Feed your tank generously.
I think this is where a lot of people have issues. We dont feed our tanks as much as we should. With GFO, a decent skimmer and water changes in place you should be able to feed the tank generously and maintain parameters as set out above. Essentially you need HIGH INPUT + HIGH WASTE OUTPUT.
Look through threads where the SPS are highly coloured (not pale like Zeo, but strong deep colouration) and if you ask the reef keeper about feeding they will usually tell you they feed their tank generously.

4. Carry out at least 10% water changes per week.
Water changes are one of the best things you can do for your tank during the stage where you are trying to colour up your SPS and especially when your tank is less than 1 years old.

5. Run a decent skimmer for your sized tank.
Pretty much easy enough. Keep it clean etc. Clean cup weekly. I clean whole skimmer every 3 months.

6. Run appropriate sized LED/T5/MH unit for your tank.
As long as most SPS get around 200-250PAR they will colour up nicely. Some acros might need higher, but that generally is sufficient.

7. Stop messing with the tank; trying this potion and that potion.
I think too many people miss the basics and start to mess around with additives; eg adding Amino Acids etc. This also means keep the hand out of the water as much as possible. Invest is a PAR meter if possible and after acclimating on the sand bed, moving to an appropriate place higher up on the rockwork has never caused me any problems.

8. Have patience.
It usually take anywhere between 6-12 months of a tanks life before SPS start to colour up. If your rocks and sand are ultra clean and fresh then that period may be a lot shorter, but dont expect too much before that. It can take 6-12 months of water changes, using GFO and decent skimming to get the system clean enough for good SPS colour. That combined with the biological filtration maturing should set things up for nice colours.

9. Try and buy aquacultured frags.
I have around 50/50 aquacultured and wild/mari pieces. On the whole, my cultured SPS colour up much more readily than the wild pieces.

The above are like a collection of advice I have seen usually given by those who know the secret. Thats my experience as well. The secret isnt a secret. Its already out there. You just have to put the whole lot together and be consistent. Do that and your SPS will reward you with colours as what I have below:













If you search my current thread, I have a few more photos as well as photos taken with JUST camera flash and no other lighting so you can see that the colours are not just an effect of a particular style of lighting.

I am no expert or SPS guru. I simply followed the basics of reefkeeping (geared towards SPS - eg higher flow and lighting etc). I do not run Zeovit, organic carbon dosing, Biopellets etc etc. Though these tools may be used, and will help, not usually required IMO.

Stick to the basics. Keep it simple.

PS I hope I dont sound arrogant or anything like that. I just wanted to highlight that its not difficult at all. Anyone can achieve it.

I just setup a sps only system and its been running about 4 months now. I studied for about 5 months before I set it up and I would say what you just wrote is consistent with all the greats systems I studied. Great write up:thumbup: I think the key is keep it simple and make sure what you add to your system is needed before you do it.just because joey down the street is running gfo and carbon etc. does not mean that's the only was to a sweet sps tank!

[sahin]

Originally Posted by frags7

I just setup a sps only system and its been running about 4 months now. I studied for about 5 months before I set it up and I would say what you just wrote is consistent with all the greats systems I studied. Great write up I think the key is keep it simple and make sure what you add to your system is needed before you do it.just because joey down the street is running gfo and carbon etc. does not mean that's the only was to a sweet sps tank!

Yup, you've done your homework alright. If you look at the systems of all the greats, there is nothing special that they do. And they will say do the basics its that simple.

[Arkayology]

This thread has given me a lot to think about and reaffirmed what I already know. Thanks to everyone for contributing!

[horseplay]

I just want to say this is the best thread on RC. My tank is only 4 months old and I am still fine tuning the system. I started keeping SPS on day one. I have the same symptoms some of you have, pastel colored acros. After reducing alk from 8.7 to 7.8 the colors have darkened. I also started to feed heavily. Thank you.

[MrineLfRlz]

What about the lighting period?
Also would you say the 200-250par is the sweet spot i have leds over my 75g and im getting around 300-350par mid height were i will have my sps should dim my leds abit?

[88rxna]

Originally Posted by horseplay

After reducing alk from 8.7 to 7.8 the colors have darkened. I also started to feed heavily. Thank you.

How long did it take to see results?

[sahin]

Originally Posted by MrineLfRlz

What about the lighting period?
Also would you say the 200-250par is the sweet spot i have leds over my 75g and im getting around 300-350par mid height were i will have my sps should dim my leds abit?

With respect to lighting period, I would say 6-8 hours for the "main" light and 1-2 hours of "actinic" light before and after the "main" lighting period. So, in the region of 8-12 hours.

These are all just recommendations; you might find that 12 hours is too long and may even cause corals to lighten up etc. Or you might find the corals are just fine.

With traditional lights (ie MH + T5) it was easier to say 8 hours MH and have 1 hour extra T5 or VHO Actinics before and after etc, but with LED's you have so many other variables such as dimming, channels, different colours etc so its harder to make individual recommendations.

When I mentioned the 200-250 PAR I said that it is sufficient for most SPS to colour up nicely. Of course you can have slightly higher as long as it isnt causing your SPS to bleach; you are fine.

Here is my lighting schedule on my T5/LED hybrid Sunpower:

12pm:
ATI BLUE+, ATI Blue+ & ATI Actinic turn on.

1pm:
Cree Royal Blue and Blue LED's turn on.

2pm:
ATI Coral+ & ATI Purple+ turn on.

8pm:
ATI Coral+ & ATi Purple+ turn off.

8.40pm:
ATI BLUE+, ATI Blue+ & ATI Actinic turn off.

9pm:
Cree Royal Blue and Blue LED's turn off.

So you can see how I have staggered my lighting and that the tank receives FULL lighting for 6 hours, with an extra 3 hours of a combo of LED and T5.

With respect to lighting; you need to watch your corals closely.

A trick I use is to set your camera's white balance. Dont change it no more. Now change your lights for example you want to increase the PAR, increase it and then take a sample of 6-8 top down shots of your SPS.

Then at the same time every 3-5 days after changing your lighting schedule or reducing intensity, take photos of the same corals.

Now view them on the monitor//laptop screen. Has the colour improved? Has it stayed the same? Have some corals become paler?

You get the idea. Or even get the other half to take mental shots and ask them to look at your corals again in a few days. YOU wont probably notice the subtle changes because you see the corals every day.

You sort of have to "read" your corals. With SPS, Polyp extension, colour, general health of the SPS tissue (ie sometimes the flesh looks thin/dry looking if you go overboard on carbon dosing) are clues as to how they are doing.

[sirreal63]

Originally Posted by horseplay

I just want to say this is the best thread on RC. My tank is only 4 months old and I am still fine tuning the system. I started keeping SPS on day one. I have the same symptoms some of you have, pastel colored acros. After reducing alk from 8.7 to 7.8 the colors have darkened. I also started to feed heavily. Thank you.

I would lean towards the feeding more having a greater effect than the change in alk. I have had no issues with keeping deep colors with alk ranging from 8-12, but I have been a heavy feeder for many years.

[88rxna]

Originally Posted by sahin

2. Keep NO3 below 5ppm and PO4 around 0.03ppm
I have seen these two parameters way higher in some tanks and SPS colours are still fine (take a look at member Big E; he has around 0.1ppm PO4, but excellent SPS colour), but usually PO4 is the one to keep a close eye on; not only because of SPS browning out, but to keep algae growth minimal. Use GFO in small amounts regularly.

this is where i am having trouble. i have a hanna meter i use to check p04. using the BRS website it states to use 2 full cups of GFO (BRS brand non high capacity) but i only use 1 1/2 cups. it maintains 0 on the checker but i have thick hair algae on some rocks and film on the glass that gets cleaned every couple of days. i guess i just need to be more persistent on the GFO when it is exhausted (check p04 more often)?
i have a extreme brown SPS up top (about 4-6 inches from surface of the water) that has super green polyps on its base but its growing great! on the sand bed of have milis that are losing much color...my T5's all need replaced but i have 2 ocean revive S026 LED units showing up friday. i feel this should fix my light issue. i just dont know what else it could be?

P04- 0PPM (hanna reader)
alk - 8.3
cal - 440
MG - 1350
N03 - 0
i use dosers for alk and cal which are very consistent.
it is a dirty tank (detrius in sand and rocks) and i have been using a turkey baster and filter socks to clean up.i just do not know what else to do?
some frags on sand bed have STN on the base and have a very light color with little to no PE. i have dipped them with coralRX and found no pests.

so i am replacing my old T5 unit with LED's
better house keeping
anything else i should do?

[sahin]

Originally Posted by 88rxna

this is where i am having trouble. i have a hanna meter i use to check p04. using the BRS website it states to use 2 full cups of GFO (BRS brand non high capacity) but i only use 1 1/2 cups. it maintains 0 on the checker but i have thick hair algae on some rocks and film on the glass that gets cleaned every couple of days. i guess i just need to be more persistent on the GFO when it is exhausted (check p04 more often)?
i have a extreme brown SPS up top (about 4-6 inches from surface of the water) that has super green polyps on its base but its growing great! on the sand bed of have milis that are losing much color...my T5's all need replaced but i have 2 ocean revive S026 LED units showing up friday. i feel this should fix my light issue. i just dont know what else it could be?

P04- 0PPM (hanna reader)
alk - 8.3
cal - 440
MG - 1350
N03 - 0
i use dosers for alk and cal which are very consistent.
it is a dirty tank (detrius in sand and rocks) and i have been using a turkey baster and filter socks to clean up.i just do not know what else to do?
some frags on sand bed have STN on the base and have a very light color with little to no PE. i have dipped them with coralRX and found no pests.

so i am replacing my old T5 unit with LED's
better house keeping
anything else i should do?

I battled phosphate for nearly 6 months before I had it under control. If I didnt use GFO, PO4 would jump to 0.1ppm within a day or two.

Keep going with the GFO usage, maybe use less but replace more often to help with the STN issues.

Keep up the GFO usage, change it out as soon as the water gets higher than 0.03ppm. Keep an eye on the Alk if you are changing out lots of GFO every few days.

Try and carry out 20% water changes at least twice weekly if you can for a month.

[88rxna]

Ok, thank you!
When testing p04, should i test the display water or directly from the GFO reactor?

[sahin]

Originally Posted by 88rxna

Ok, thank you!
When testing p04, should i test the display water or directly from the GFO reactor?

If you test display, it will tell you obviously what the current level is.

Testing the effluent of the reactor will tell you when you need to change it ie that it is exhausted. But, if there are fines in the water, I've found in the past this causes errors in the test with photometers.

Main thing is to be patient; it might take 6 months...and that is a very long time, but it will be worth it and you wont lose corals due to rushing things.

Goodluck.

[Reefin' Dude]

Originally Posted by sahin

I battled phosphate for nearly 6 months before I had it under control. If I didnt use GFO, PO4 would jump to 0.1ppm within a day or two.

Keep going with the GFO usage, maybe use less but replace more often to help with the STN issues.

Keep up the GFO usage, change it out as soon as the water gets higher than 0.03ppm. Keep an eye on the Alk if you are changing out lots of GFO every few days.

Try and carry out 20% water changes at least twice weekly if you can for a month.

if this is the case, i would look into why you need GFO. the reliance of GFO is a good indicator that there is a bigger underlying problem of phosphates. the goal should be not to need GFO.

Originally Posted by 88rxna

Ok, thank you!
When testing p04, should i test the display water or directly from the GFO reactor?

it really doesn't matter. most PO4 test kits are not accurate enough to be of much use to us. we need to have a resolution of 0.001ppm to of help to us when keeping an oligotrophic environment. if there is algae, then there is a phosphate problem.

G~

[sahin]

Originally Posted by Reefin' Dude

if this is the case, i would look into why you need GFO. the reliance of GFO is a good indicator that there is a bigger underlying problem of phosphates. the goal should be not to need GFO.

I see what you are saying.

Here is a quick breakdown of my tank:

47G tank with 30G sump. Bubble Magus NAC6 skimmer. Decent performance and adequate for my tank. Carry out 10% water changes per week.

Mixture of liverock and Marco Key Largo rocks. The Marco rocks were treated beforehand for PO4 with LC and acid washing. I know the issue isnt these rocks.

Liverock: I think here is the issue...my LFS sold me crappy old phosphate laden rock.

I have NO sand. Barebottom tank. I siphone any detritus etc, change filter socks every few days etc etc. Run 2xMP10's on a 30inch long tank to keep detritus suspended etc.

Fishes: 4 x Blue Chromis. 2 x Small Perc Clowns (around 2 inches is the bigger one. 1 x small Bangai cardinal.

Those 7 fishes are small. Not a massive bioload like a small tang for example.

I fed lightly for months thinking it was the food. I rinse all frozen food etc.

So other than the liverock, I cant point anywhere else.

Use an RO/DI unit. Change filter/DI resin when TDS hits 1. The main RO filter is less than 6 months old.

Thats the thing...I tried to eliminate all the possible sources other than the liverock and still had phosphate issue for a long time.

But things are better now because my SPS are coloring up nicely. But yeah I am still having to utilise GFO.