Looking for info on Vibrant Reef Aquarium Cleaner

[jemw]

Had a brown hair algae problem that nothing I did seemed to help. Sailfin Tang, Yellow Tang, more snails, emerald crab, dragon blennie. Phosphates were fairly low (0.04) but the algae was going ape on me.

Out of my searches here and other forums I found other's who had success with Vibrant Reef Aquarium Cleaner, so I ordered some. Put the recommended dose in my aquarium Saturday afternoon, and the brown hair algae is gone as of this morning.

I haven't noticed any side effects with the fish/corals/snails/crab at this time, but was wondering if anyone here has any long term experience with the product to share. Would appreciate the feedback

Interestingly my return pump and skimmer pump have returned to the quiet mode they ran when I first installed them. Guess they were beginning to have an algae sludge build up.

[bertoni]

I haven't heard of the product. Please keep us updated on your progress!

[awais98]

So its been a month you used theproduct, what is your experience until now? How is it holding?

[Rybren]

I've been following a Vibrant thread on a different forum and it does seem to be highly effective against most forms of nuisance algae. It seems as though there are a couple of folks who have been using a maintenance dose for ~1 year with only positive effects.

I am always rather skeptical when seeing these types of threads, but a friend recently starting dosing Vibrant to his 500G tank that was a sea of green with HA and Bryopsis. I have never seen a tank this badly affected. After 2 doses, the bryopsis was literally falling off the rock with slight agitation of the water near it. The HA didn't seem to be as effected by the same dose. I haven't seen or spoken to him in about a week, so I don't know how he is faring after 5 or 6 doses. Will check in with him and provide an update.

[awais98]

Originally Posted by Rybren

I've been following a Vibrant thread on a different forum and it does seem to be highly effective against most forms of nuisance algae. It seems as though there are a couple of folks who have been using a maintenance dose for ~1 year with only positive effects.

I am always rather skeptical when seeing these types of threads, but a friend recently starting dosing Vibrant to his 500G tank that was a sea of green with HA and Bryopsis. I have never seen a tank this badly affected. After 2 doses, the bryopsis was literally falling off the rock with slight agitation of the water near it. The HA didn't seem to be as effected by the same dose. I haven't seen or spoken to him in about a week, so I don't know how he is faring after 5 or 6 doses. Will check in with him and provide an update.

. Can't wait to hear long term effects....



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[Rybren]

Okay, I was having another senior moment; I had things backwards. After 3 doses, the vibrant destroyed the HA in my friends tank. It is starting to affect the bryopsis - it is turning white at the tips, but it is still there.

[jason2459]

Going to be doing an up close look at it's effects here:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...567904&page=11

Getting my tank ready now by causing issues and getting some before samples before I start dosing it.


Yes, I'm purposely causing a cyano and dino outbreak. My tank is pretty predictable and I know it can recover on it's own if I stop doing what I'm doing to cause the outbreak. I've done this several time before testing out different things.

[tmz]

Vibrant Ingredients -
​
95% Cultured Bacteria Blend
1% Amino Acids (Aspartic Acid)
0.5% Vinegar
3.5% RO/DI Water

Above is from the manfacturer's site.

Mostly a bacterial supplement with a little vinegar and asparic acid.

Don't know what type of bacteria but would guess heterotrophic bacteria . Obviously, the vinegar is a carbon source,
The aspartic acid might help nitrogen levels.
I'd guess it lower's phosphate in some way and would be interested in user's observations on that score.
​

[BlackTip]

Originally Posted by jason2459

Yes, I'm purposely causing a cyano and dino outbreak. My tank is pretty predictable and I know it can recover on it's own if I stop doing what I'm doing to cause the outbreak. I've done this several time before testing out different things.

You are either the craziest or the most courageous reefer...

[Rybren]

The manufacturer has stated that they use a blend of various types of bacteria that are held in a dormant state while in the bottle. Some supposedly attack the algae itself while others I believe are heterotrophic.

As an aside, I made a quick visit to see my friend's tank earlier today. He has done 4 doses so far. I'd say about 90% of the HA is gone. The bryopsis is still there but is definitely lightening up and can be removed by hand with minimal effort. I'd have to say that it is having a positive effect. His Nitrates were not detectable using Salifert before he started. I don't recall what his phosphates were.

[jason2459]

Originally Posted by BlackTip

You are either the craziest or the most courageous reefer...

It helps I've done it many times before either on purpose or accident. I certainly wouldn't suggest anyone else do this on purpose. I have faith in my tanks biodiversity to take care of itself.

I don't expect to ever truly be rid of any nuisances especially cyano and dinoflagelets. I believe diatoms to be beneficial so I wouldn't want them to be wiped out. It's all about balance in my system. So, I know how to tip that balance.

[BlackTip]

Originally Posted by jason2459

It helps I've done it many times before either on purpose or accident. I certainly wouldn't suggest anyone else do this on purpose. I have faith in my tanks biodiversity to take care of itself.

I don't expect to ever truly be rid of any nuisances especially cyano and dinoflagelets. I believe diatoms to be beneficial so I wouldn't want them to be wiped out. It's all about balance in my system. So, I know how to tip that balance.

I'd love to learn how you achieved that balance.

[tmz]

Some, supposedly attack the algae itself while others I believe are heterotrophic.

Hi.

I've searched around and haven't found any algae eating bacteria or bacterial algacides. I've heard of algae eating bacteria for nutrients but not the other way around .Bacteria do compete with algae for nutreints and effect the algae in that fashion. I haven't seen the manufacturer claim the bacterial supplement directly attacks the algae.

Mostly the product sounds like a bit of carbon dosing , bacterial supplementation and a bit of aspartic acid, aka aspartate (C4H7NO4),for some carbon and nitrogen along with a bit of vinegar ,aka acetic acid (CH3COOH), for another carbon source.

[Rybren]

Here are a couple of questions and the responses from the manufacturer. This is taken from the Vibrant thread on one of the other large reef forums...

"Q. It contains de-nitrifying bacteria and an "algae-eating clinging bacteria". What is the Family of the bacteria? Why does this particular bacteria consume the algae instead of consuming the same resources that are critical to algae growth?

A. It does both. It will actually consume the algae and feed on the nutrients the algae needs to survive.

Q. With algae-eating, clinging bacteria, how is it selective and targets the algae we deem "pest algae" and does not harm other macro algae?

A. This was all figured out by strength of the bacteria and dosing regiment. It really doesn't know but it works it way from the less dominant algaes up to the more dominant. We are finding that some people are having some issues with chaeto as there No3 and Po4 get consumed and there is not enough to keep the macro happy anymore."

[jason2459]

Originally Posted by tmz

Some, supposedly attack the algae itself while others I believe are heterotrophic.

Hi.

I've searched around and haven't found any algae eating bacteria or bacterial algacides. I've heard of algae eating bacteria for nutrients but not the other way around .Bacteria do compete with algae for nutreints and effect the algae in that fashion. I haven't seen the manufacturer claim the bacterial supplement directly attacks the algae.

Mostly the product sounds like a bit of carbon dosing , bacterial supplementation and a bit of aspartic acid, aka aspartate (C4H7NO4),for some carbon and nitrogen along with a bit of vinegar ,aka acetic acid (CH3COOH), for another carbon source.

I have several questions sent to them and some around the little amount of organics included.

I haven't heard back any answers. Their rep is in active contact with me but he defered my questions to others.

Originally Posted by Rybren

Here are a couple of questions and the responses from the manufacturer. This is taken from the Vibrant thread on one of the other large reef forums...

"Q. It contains de-nitrifying bacteria and an "algae-eating clinging bacteria". What is the Family of the bacteria? Why does this particular bacteria consume the algae instead of consuming the same resources that are critical to algae growth?

A. It does both. It will actually consume the algae and feed on the nutrients the algae needs to survive.

Q. With algae-eating, clinging bacteria, how is it selective and targets the algae we deem "pest algae" and does not harm other macro algae?

A. This was all figured out by strength of the bacteria and dosing regiment. It really doesn't know but it works it way from the less dominant algaes up to the more dominant. We are finding that some people are having some issues with chaeto as there No3 and Po4 get consumed and there is not enough to keep the macro happy anymore."

I have to post up the pictures I've taken of it. I'm behind. But there is most definitely a bacteria that is cocci shaped that is "clinging" to strands of something in the bottle.

[jason2459]

Originally Posted by BlackTip

I'd love to learn how you achieved that balance.

It's really a combination of everything which I didn't come up with any of it. It's been researching and reading up what others have done here on reefcentral. PaulB and Randy were big influences and what I've incorporated at the beginning. TMZ has influenced some changes as well like dosing limewater separate from my ATO on a timer and carbon sources.

I also think some of it is what I don't do. Like I don't believe in heavy mechanical filtration or keeping everything squeaky clean. I do not, will not, and do not care to have a tank of the month either. I'm with PaulB there. And like Randy I don't do anything to the detritus in my sump. It just builds up over time like mud and turns into food and shelter. I don't mess with my sand bed but do like PaulB and create a typhoon in my tank with a diatom filter once a year or so (sometimes longer).

So, what I actively do that I think helps....

I'll copy paste what I've posted recently in another thread.

There's so many ways to run a reef tank. Many people have posted stellar examples using so many different methods and there's many people failing trying to use the same exact methods.

For me I use a mixed approach and don't depend on any single thing to be the main "thing" to maintain my tank.

Carbon dosing with vinegar to reduce nitrates and maintain low phosphates and directly feed other organisms, besides just bacteria, in the tank.

Skimmer to help remove excess bacteria exporting what they've consumed and anything else that attaches to the bubbles. Plus helping to aerate the water and boost my pH.

Some kind of algae harvesting to work with the carbon dosing to help remove unwanted elements and nutrients. Currently running a Turbo ATS. Slight pH increase from it.

Reversed Under gravel filter to increase microfauna, pods, worms, sponges, etc plus it may help reduce nitrates.

~1% daily automatic water changes exporting whatever and importing stuff.

Then a periodic (1-2x per year) typhoon with a diatom filter.

[jason2459]

Originally Posted by BlackTip

I'd love to learn how you achieved that balance.

And also to add patience.

When I say my tank can recover on it's own I don't mean over night or even a week. Normally it would be many weeks to a month or two even. I don't stress about it or take any drastic actions. I just let it take care of itself and just keep doing what I normally do to maintain consistency.

[tmz]

I don't doubt bacteria will use decaying algae or other strands of things but still can't find any evidence of a strain that that eats living algae. If anyone finds one, let us know.

[jason2459]

Originally Posted by tmz

I don't doubt bacteria will use decaying algae or other strands of things but still can't find any evidence of a strain that that eats living algae. If anyone finds one, let us know.

I agree and have stated in the other site's thread that it would concern me if there was something like that.

[jason2459]

Posted some pictures of it here

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...php?p=24825577

[bertoni]

The product might contain an algicide similar to the Algae-X product. Without any clear description, we can only guess.

[jason2459]

They broke down the ingredients but doesnt mean that's accurate and that other ingredients leaves a lot open.

Vibrant Liquid Aquarium Cleaner Ingredients -

95% Cultured Bacteria Blend
1% Amino Acids (Aspartic Acid)
0.5% Vinegar - This is used as the preservative
3.5% Other Ingredients (RO/DI Water)


Fwiw I posted a video now too in that up close thread. I'm very curious what the bacteria are attached to. The video is of the longest strand I found by far. I have to get up closer but the liquid is very "slippery" so need to secure the cover slip.


Edit: Sorry, TMZ already posted that above. I'm in to many vibrant threads now. Why I'm going to have some fun with it. The rep already said it wouldn't be very fair for me to disclose to much but anyone can do what I'm doing. Not like I work for a competing company and have a sophisticated lab. Its a folding table, laptop, and a microscope... ha! Though I do have some cool stains.

[Rybren]

On this website, they claim that their bacterial product

"Clarifies water in water column by eating algae, and suspended/free floating organic matter, and dissolved organics in the water column"

Their products are primarily for FW pond applications. However, some can be used in a marine environment.

Unfortunately, none of their individual product specs specifically state that the bacteria will eat algae.

[jason2459]

Got some more samples up close. I still don't exactly know what the strands are but I can't say they aren't algae based anymore.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...php?p=24830145

[BlackTip]

Great job Jason