Let's Talk About Water Movement in an SPS Tank. - Page 2

G-money · 07/20/2004, 04:05 PM

stealyourhouse,

Nice Wilco cop...

The combination of pumps hitting the glass and currents made by other water vectors in the tank (hitting the glass or not) not only breaks it up, but does indeed provide random currents. If you come to my house, I will show you.

Wavemaking is not absolutely necessary, either - I haven't used one in almost 2 years and have no complaints. As I said, I can see the randomness of the flow by watching the polyps on my corals (and other things in the tank). To each their own...

clowntank10 · 07/20/2004, 05:09 PM

ok got the return working. so much water flow in the tank. its scarry. no sand storms but all the lil corals and etc in the tank are moving. in all the corners. used off the glass bang. great idea. the maroon is hiding. hasnt xperienced that much flow since it was in my tank. the only spot with very pressure is right under the part wher am off glass banging the water. the corals are streching. today im getting my first sps frag. probly a digitada cuase lfs said they are the easiest to keep. i have a lot of lil bubles how do i get rid of 'em

mrkrispy · 07/20/2004, 06:48 PM

I have been struggling with proper flow in my SPS tank - problem is it is a 20L - 12" deep. I have a mod'd MJ400 and a RIO50 on the back wall, and a skimmer overflow. I have the MJ on a Chauvet timer, and I had to point the nozzle against the back wall. The RIO has the spigot pointed toward the middle of the tank. With such close quarters I am having trouble getting decent flow to the middle of the tank, where the highest light demand acros should be. DOH!

I don't really want to keep all my corals in the middle of the tank, but ones on the edge will get the tissue ripped off.

Xx_de_xX · 07/20/2004, 06:51 PM

great thread

I rock a mag 9.5 on my 15 gallon using a modified scwd. I watch my SPS polyps sway back and forth.. sometimes up and down. The outputs from the mag 9.5 are pointed towards the center/front of the tank. Beings as how my tank is only 14 inches wide and deep, and 18 inches tall.. you can guess I don't have a single dead spot.

mrkrispy · 07/20/2004, 06:54 PM

how do you avoid a sandstorm from the bottom front?

Xx_de_xX · 07/20/2004, 07:10 PM

I took a sheet of 1/8th inch acrylic, some pvc glue, and some aragonite... put the three together, and it looks like I have sand, but it doesn't move. Unless, the hermits pick it off (which they have, and I'm not happy about it.)

*edit*

I've been thinking about replacing the acrylic with an epoxy like someone here on RC did... can't think of the name right now, but if it's safe, I'll be going that route.

RGibson · 07/22/2004, 03:24 PM

Joe if you were to start a new 180 gal reef how would you do the water flow?

MiddletonMark · 07/22/2004, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RGibson
Joe if you were to start a new 180 gal reef how would you do the water flow?

Great question ... in fact, I'd like to suggest after the last of these great `Let's Talk About' threads ... I'd love to force Joe to dream up his `ideal 180 setup' for us + outline it.

[at least personally I'm working toward that size tank in 1-3 years ... or larger]

RGibson · 07/22/2004, 03:42 PM

MiddletonMark Joe needs to start like cost is not important . Than it will turn out right.

alanseah · 07/22/2004, 07:52 PM

flow is one thing but when u have a mix reef like mine, LPS and SPS.. you will face headache as you have to be careful of the flow..

Julio · 07/22/2004, 07:57 PM

a slow steady flow is great, too much flow coming offa tunze is too strong, a surge would be best in my opinon.

MiddletonMark · 07/22/2004, 07:59 PM

A surge is definitely a part of my dream tank ... even if to play with and run only on occasion.

FragPacks · 07/22/2004, 08:20 PM

I have a 15 gallon surge device that drops from about 4' before splitting into 2 - 1" outlets into my prop tank. It drains in 6 seconds and goes off once a minute like clock work.

If you want increased growth and overall health for your sps up the flow in your tank, prop or otherwise.

David P · 07/22/2004, 08:21 PM

I have a 120 with an Oceans Motions 4 way. I have it plumbed as a closed loop with the 4 returns in the botom of each corner. I have the two front returns blasting through 1.5" 45s shooting up and across the tank. I have one rear coming through a 1.5" 90 shooting across the bottom of the tank. The last corner I had a 90 blowing forward, but I thought I was "wasting" the flow. I pulled off the 90 and was going to replace it with a 45 right as the flow from my amp master kicked on with the water shooting straight up for 15 sec. I was quite happy when I saw the water swirling all around that corner of the tank, over rocks, under rocks, all over. The water jet pushed water up against the eurobrace and made the top of the watter move almost all the way across the tank. As the water comes down from a wave, it causes even more flow to blow down on rocks and corals. I am thinking of replacing the one back 90 with a 45 so the current shoots up and across the back. What I think would be great is if I had the 8way so I could have two bulkheads in each corner one with a 45 fitting, and one shooting straight up.

alanseah · 07/22/2004, 08:30 PM

talking so much about water movement..
but can anyone help list out which brand product is the best for water movement..??

thanx

NanoReefer53 · 07/22/2004, 09:45 PM

Hmm . . i'm kind of dissapointed at my current water flow. I'm setting up a 37g tall right now and I thought a Mag7 would be good enough as a return pump and for flow. Do you guys think that a Seio would be too much flow ? The tank is 30x12x22 by the way.

joetbs · 07/22/2004, 10:48 PM

I just set up a 30g breeder to prop stuff in and I'm running a Mag 9.5 into a SCWD through a closed loop into the top back corners, with 45 degree elbows pointing up and towards the center. I also have 2 Seio 620s opposing each other on a wavemaker. I am just using a big eggcrate rack in the middle with some branch rock around it. Hopefully the ORA assessors can handle the flow.

joe

Valab · 07/23/2004, 11:33 AM

I hope this isn't too off topic, but for you folks with tunze streams and/or 20X or 30X flows, do your fish do ok? Can you keep fish like tangs, perculas or butterflys with those high flows?

MiddletonMark · 07/23/2004, 12:35 PM

When I added flow, including major flow to where one of my Percs likes to hang out ... I wondered.
Now he hangs out more often there ... getting blown half a foot when he catches the flow.

I'd say they like it, but I don't speak fish.

mhurley · 07/23/2004, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Valab
I hope this isn't too off topic, but for you folks with tunze streams and/or 20X or 30X flows, do your fish do ok? Can you keep fish like tangs, perculas or butterflys with those high flows?

Let's see, I have 2 ampmaster 3000's and 2 Streams. So let's call it 12,000 GPH divided into a 330 display tank, that's roughtly 36X. Of course there's head loss but you get the idea.

My fish (yellow tang and 2 hippo tangs, chromis, clown, bi-color angel) truly seem unaffected...In fact, I'm adding a Tunze Wave box as soon as they are released. I've never seen my fish "fighting" the water flow.

reefnroll · 07/23/2004, 12:42 PM

David P -

What pump are you using with your OceansMotions 4-way? I just set mine up too... couldn't be happier with the way it rocks the reef... but I may change out the pump at some point. Right now I am using a Mag 18 on a 125 reef... closed loop as you have.

bec

greg65 · 07/23/2004, 01:04 PM

I would say the flow in my tank is extremely good right now.
Im running a sequence 5200 as the return, into a OCEAN MOTION 4 way in each corner of the tank. Ive played around with various fitting to eliminate dead spots.

Im also running a mag 18 on a closed loop blowing through the back of the rockwork.

Then i run a 45 gallon surge using a 1 1/2" actuated ballvalve, surging around 35-40 gallons in 50 seconds every 3 minutes. Nice , strong, dispersed flow..........and NO bubbles.

I had a stream6000 in the center of the tank blowing against the front glass. But decided right now i really dont need it.

Oceanmotion and tunze streams are incredible products that REALLY help in covering the whole tank in flow but.........IMO, nothing beats a really well designed Surge setup.

My corals love me for it ! :^)

-Greg-

RGibson · 07/23/2004, 03:11 PM

Mhurley- how far will one tunze stream move the water across the tank?

David P · 07/23/2004, 05:17 PM

reefnroll, Im running an ampmaster 2700 on my HD 4way. Im thinking of spending the $50 and changing the impeller to a 3600. If I do that, Ill also probably change drums in the oceans motions so that two ports work at the same time.

reefnroll · 07/23/2004, 05:30 PM

Thanks David -

I'm checking around to see what people are using with these OM units. My Mag 18 really does a great job as far as volume of water tossed around, however... I'm (suddenly) having some cavitation issues (at least I think that's what going on) so I may be looking to change over to something else. Is your AM 2700 plumbed right beneath your 120, or is there some distance involved to create greater head? Is the OM down below the tank... or up top? That seems like a whole lot of power for a closed loop on a 4 foot tank.. but if you have a bare bottom - which I see you do - I suppose there's really no downside to contained chaos.

b

07/20/2004, 04:05 PM	#26
G-money Premium Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 2,250	stealyourhouse, Nice Wilco cop... The combination of pumps hitting the glass and currents made by other water vectors in the tank (hitting the glass or not) not only breaks it up, but does indeed provide random currents. If you come to my house, I will show you. Wavemaking is not absolutely necessary, either - I haven't used one in almost 2 years and have no complaints. As I said, I can see the randomness of the flow by watching the polyps on my corals (and other things in the tank). To each their own... __________________ I'll shut up now... Current Tank Info: 120 reef, 75 plant

07/20/2004, 06:51 PM	#29
Xx_de_xX Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Eureka, CA Posts: 333	great thread I rock a mag 9.5 on my 15 gallon using a modified scwd. I watch my SPS polyps sway back and forth.. sometimes up and down. The outputs from the mag 9.5 are pointed towards the center/front of the tank. Beings as how my tank is only 14 inches wide and deep, and 18 inches tall.. you can guess I don't have a single dead spot. __________________ Crawl with me into tomorrow or I'll drag you to your grave. I'm deep inside your children, they'll betray you in my name Current Tank Info: 15 Gallon Designer tank. 175 w MH 14K. 20 lbs live rock, Mag 9.5 @ 6" head, 20L sump, 10G fug. 15 Gallons cycled every minute 20 seconds... can you say water movement?

07/20/2004, 07:10 PM	#31
Xx_de_xX Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Eureka, CA Posts: 333	I took a sheet of 1/8th inch acrylic, some pvc glue, and some aragonite... put the three together, and it looks like I have sand, but it doesn't move. Unless, the hermits pick it off (which they have, and I'm not happy about it.) edit I've been thinking about replacing the acrylic with an epoxy like someone here on RC did... can't think of the name right now, but if it's safe, I'll be going that route. __________________ Crawl with me into tomorrow or I'll drag you to your grave. I'm deep inside your children, they'll betray you in my name Current Tank Info: 15 Gallon Designer tank. 175 w MH 14K. 20 lbs live rock, Mag 9.5 @ 6" head, 20L sump, 10G fug. 15 Gallons cycled every minute 20 seconds... can you say water movement?

07/22/2004, 03:24 PM	#32
RGibson RGibson Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 2,377	Joe if you were to start a new 180 gal reef how would you do the water flow? __________________ RGibson

07/22/2004, 03:42 PM	#34
RGibson RGibson Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 2,377	MiddletonMark Joe needs to start like cost is not important . Than it will turn out right. __________________ RGibson

07/20/2004, 05:09 PM	#27
clowntank10 Moved On Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: highland Clifornis Posts: 631	ok got the return working. so much water flow in the tank. its scarry. no sand storms but all the lil corals and etc in the tank are moving. in all the corners. used off the glass bang. great idea. the maroon is hiding. hasnt xperienced that much flow since it was in my tank. the only spot with very pressure is right under the part wher am off glass banging the water. the corals are streching. today im getting my first sps frag. probly a digitada cuase lfs said they are the easiest to keep. i have a lot of lil bubles how do i get rid of 'em

07/20/2004, 06:48 PM	#28
mrkrispy Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: San Diego Posts: 581	I have been struggling with proper flow in my SPS tank - problem is it is a 20L - 12" deep. I have a mod'd MJ400 and a RIO50 on the back wall, and a skimmer overflow. I have the MJ on a Chauvet timer, and I had to point the nozzle against the back wall. The RIO has the spigot pointed toward the middle of the tank. With such close quarters I am having trouble getting decent flow to the middle of the tank, where the highest light demand acros should be. DOH! I don't really want to keep all my corals in the middle of the tank, but ones on the edge will get the tissue ripped off.

07/20/2004, 06:54 PM	#30
mrkrispy Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: San Diego Posts: 581	how do you avoid a sandstorm from the bottom front?

07/22/2004, 07:52 PM	#35
alanseah Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 130	flow is one thing but when u have a mix reef like mine, LPS and SPS.. you will face headache as you have to be careful of the flow..

07/22/2004, 07:57 PM	#36
Julio Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: New york Posts: 7,978	a slow steady flow is great, too much flow coming offa tunze is too strong, a surge would be best in my opinon. __________________ Thanks, Have a nice day. Julio Current Tank Info: 90 gallon reef w/ 250 watt SE XM10Ks and AP1003, 12 gallon reef, 40 gallon reef

07/22/2004, 07:59 PM	#37
MiddletonMark Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 14,441	A surge is definitely a part of my dream tank ... even if to play with and run only on occasion. __________________ read a lot, think for yourself Current Tank Info: 58g stony reef [250w10k, 250w 20k MH, 2x vho act, Octopus150, 6060 + 6000] ; 60g mixed tub

07/22/2004, 08:20 PM	#38
FragPacks Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 15	I have a 15 gallon surge device that drops from about 4' before splitting into 2 - 1" outlets into my prop tank. It drains in 6 seconds and goes off once a minute like clock work. If you want increased growth and overall health for your sps up the flow in your tank, prop or otherwise.

07/22/2004, 08:21 PM	#39
David P Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Valencia, So Cal Posts: 3,288	I have a 120 with an Oceans Motions 4 way. I have it plumbed as a closed loop with the 4 returns in the botom of each corner. I have the two front returns blasting through 1.5" 45s shooting up and across the tank. I have one rear coming through a 1.5" 90 shooting across the bottom of the tank. The last corner I had a 90 blowing forward, but I thought I was "wasting" the flow. I pulled off the 90 and was going to replace it with a 45 right as the flow from my amp master kicked on with the water shooting straight up for 15 sec. I was quite happy when I saw the water swirling all around that corner of the tank, over rocks, under rocks, all over. The water jet pushed water up against the eurobrace and made the top of the watter move almost all the way across the tank. As the water comes down from a wave, it causes even more flow to blow down on rocks and corals. I am thinking of replacing the one back 90 with a 45 so the current shoots up and across the back. What I think would be great is if I had the 8way so I could have two bulkheads in each corner one with a 45 fitting, and one shooting straight up. __________________ I don't have to be nice, Im being honest Current Tank Info: 120g bare bottom, 250w de in ROIII+, Amp Master closed loop through Oceans Motion, 60g fuge

07/22/2004, 08:30 PM	#40
alanseah Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 130	talking so much about water movement.. but can anyone help list out which brand product is the best for water movement..?? thanx

07/22/2004, 09:45 PM	#41
NanoReefer53 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Dublin, CA Posts: 682	Hmm . . i'm kind of dissapointed at my current water flow. I'm setting up a 37g tall right now and I thought a Mag7 would be good enough as a return pump and for flow. Do you guys think that a Seio would be too much flow ? The tank is 30x12x22 by the way.

07/22/2004, 10:48 PM	#42
joetbs Zanza Zanza Zanzibar Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New York Posts: 2,003	I just set up a 30g breeder to prop stuff in and I'm running a Mag 9.5 into a SCWD through a closed loop into the top back corners, with 45 degree elbows pointing up and towards the center. I also have 2 Seio 620s opposing each other on a wavemaker. I am just using a big eggcrate rack in the middle with some branch rock around it. Hopefully the ORA assessors can handle the flow. joe __________________ check out my nano tank thread http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1751604 Current Tank Info: 22g Shin Mao Nano

07/23/2004, 11:33 AM	#43
Valab Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Wash DC Posts: 242	I hope this isn't too off topic, but for you folks with tunze streams and/or 20X or 30X flows, do your fish do ok? Can you keep fish like tangs, perculas or butterflys with those high flows?

07/23/2004, 12:35 PM	#44
MiddletonMark Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 14,441	When I added flow, including major flow to where one of my Percs likes to hang out ... I wondered. Now he hangs out more often there ... getting blown half a foot when he catches the flow. I'd say they like it, but I don't speak fish. __________________ read a lot, think for yourself Current Tank Info: 58g stony reef [250w10k, 250w 20k MH, 2x vho act, Octopus150, 6060 + 6000] ; 60g mixed tub

07/23/2004, 12:42 PM	#46
reefnroll Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 854	David P - What pump are you using with your OceansMotions 4-way? I just set mine up too... couldn't be happier with the way it rocks the reef... but I may change out the pump at some point. Right now I am using a Mag 18 on a 125 reef... closed loop as you have. bec

07/23/2004, 01:04 PM	#47
greg65 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: concord,california Posts: 475	I would say the flow in my tank is extremely good right now. Im running a sequence 5200 as the return, into a OCEAN MOTION 4 way in each corner of the tank. Ive played around with various fitting to eliminate dead spots. Im also running a mag 18 on a closed loop blowing through the back of the rockwork. Then i run a 45 gallon surge using a 1 1/2" actuated ballvalve, surging around 35-40 gallons in 50 seconds every 3 minutes. Nice , strong, dispersed flow..........and NO bubbles. I had a stream6000 in the center of the tank blowing against the front glass. But decided right now i really dont need it. Oceanmotion and tunze streams are incredible products that REALLY help in covering the whole tank in flow but.........IMO, nothing beats a really well designed Surge setup. My corals love me for it ! :^) -Greg- __________________ Why do I always seam to pick the expensive hobbies?!!!??!! Current Tank Info: 150 custom starfire in-wall sps, solar tubes/MH/T5/LED/VHO combo,vortechs,O.M. 2way.

07/23/2004, 03:11 PM	#48
RGibson RGibson Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 2,377	Mhurley- how far will one tunze stream move the water across the tank? __________________ RGibson

07/23/2004, 05:17 PM	#49
David P Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Valencia, So Cal Posts: 3,288	reefnroll, Im running an ampmaster 2700 on my HD 4way. Im thinking of spending the $50 and changing the impeller to a 3600. If I do that, Ill also probably change drums in the oceans motions so that two ports work at the same time. __________________ I don't have to be nice, Im being honest Current Tank Info: 120g bare bottom, 250w de in ROIII+, Amp Master closed loop through Oceans Motion, 60g fuge

07/23/2004, 05:30 PM	#50
reefnroll Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 854	Thanks David - I'm checking around to see what people are using with these OM units. My Mag 18 really does a great job as far as volume of water tossed around, however... I'm (suddenly) having some cavitation issues (at least I think that's what going on) so I may be looking to change over to something else. Is your AM 2700 plumbed right beneath your 120, or is there some distance involved to create greater head? Is the OM down below the tank... or up top? That seems like a whole lot of power for a closed loop on a 4 foot tank.. but if you have a bare bottom - which I see you do - I suppose there's really no downside to contained chaos. b