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Unread 05/07/2010, 06:52 AM   #1
ronharel
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Royal nature - a nice video of reef salt production - speakers on

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEbzlJXThZU

From Reef Builders : " Royal Nature, a new aquarium salt developed and manufactured in Israel, is coming on the scene using evaporated seawater instead of the typical industry norm of base materials from mines. In development the past few years, the Royal Nature salt is comprised nearly entirely of evaporated water from the Red Sea helping to make sure the trace element balance is as close to natural seawater (NSW) as possible and clean from the concentrations of toxic metals, phosphate, ammonia and nitrates typically found in salts mined from ancient lake beds. The evaporation technique is also a much “greener” method without the need for ecologically disruptive mining.


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Unread 05/07/2010, 07:48 AM   #2
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When trying to use salt from sun dried saltwater, wouldn't the calcium and bicarbonate in the water convert to calcium carbonate, which wouldn't be soluble when trying to redissolve the material in water, which would result in a water poor in calcium and bicarbonate?

Very cool video though.


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Unread 05/07/2010, 09:12 AM   #3
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NO - What you use from the sea generaly is the NACL and add the rest as balanced ionic formula without any percipitation or other problems when trying to redissolve the material in water. the water are clear as crystal water


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Unread 05/07/2010, 04:51 PM   #4
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So only the sodium chloride comes from the sea, the rest comes from some other source?


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Unread 05/07/2010, 10:15 PM   #5
ronharel
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No
every salt is from the sea but it's been added seperate and not as you sugested

" the calcium and bicarbonate in the water convert to calcium carbonate, which wouldn't be soluble when trying to redissolve the material in water "

due to different salt concentrations of evaporation you get each salt in a different pond and since Sodium Chloride is about 88% in sea water compisition you have to deal with small amounts of Ca 1.2% Mg 3.7%
Potassium 1.1% Sulfate 7.7% and Minor elements 0.7% - all are from the sea as well.
the advantage of evaporated salt on the others is the contain of all those minor elements that generally you add them as trace elemnts here you get them included in the Sodium Chloride


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Unread 05/07/2010, 10:57 PM   #6
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I don't understand how you avoid the irreversible precipitation of calcium carbonate among other things as the salinity slowly increases to extremely high levels in the evaporation ponds.



Last edited by TheH; 05/07/2010 at 10:57 PM. Reason: Typo
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Unread 05/08/2010, 05:10 AM   #7
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I agree with yardboy and TheH, I have serious doubts that you can dehydrate seawater and NOT precipitate out much of the minerals as carbonates.


As the water goes away, the salinity increase would be nuts. As levels begin to rise through the roof, the calcium, magnesium, and other minerals will begin bonding with the carbonate and precipitate out as useless calcium or magnesium carbonate.


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Unread 05/08/2010, 09:29 AM   #8
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I think this is how Red Sea Pro and D-D salt are made? Do not see anything new here.


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Unread 05/08/2010, 02:00 PM   #9
ronharel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheH View Post
I don't understand how you avoid the irreversible precipitation of calcium carbonate among other things as the salinity slowly increases to extremely high levels in the evaporation ponds.
it's very simple
during the process of evaporation there is precipitation of NACL only and the rest go back to the sea as brine - the NACL is pure and clean with micro elements but without the macro elements that you add seperatly
what do you think happen with other salts?
they use the same NACL mainly mined in a salt mines and add the rest
precipitation will come only when the mineral concentration is higer than the water capacity and that's the way to produce NACL and other minerals in different ponds with different depth/concetration


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Unread 05/08/2010, 03:37 PM   #10
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So only your NaCl comes from the ocean, and the other elements come from mined sources? Since the salt mix is mostly NaCl, I guess this would significantly cut down on contaminants?


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Unread 05/08/2010, 08:11 PM   #11
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Or significantly increase contaminants, depending on where the seawater came from and how it was treated. I will assume the water is well filtered/sterilized and sanitized before dehydration. If so, it should be fine.


But I also do not see the advantage of this salt. I mean, if it's just NaCl that's being produced from the ocean (with some undisclosed micronutrients that may or may not be compounded into useless precipitates)--- what advantage is that other than maybe being slightly more "pure" (maybe) than other brands?

What levels do you-- the manufacturer--- boost the calcium, magnesium, strontium, potassium, etc.... to after the dehydration?


EDIT: You probably aren't the manufacturer, sorry.


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Unread 05/09/2010, 12:18 AM   #12
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seems like a propaganda film lulling you to believe that this salt would support whatever that lives in the ocean. I'll pass. Shilling is still a big no isn't it? Are you connected to that company by any chance Ronharel?


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Unread 05/09/2010, 01:56 PM   #13
ronharel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redfishsc View Post
Or significantly increase contaminants, depending on where the seawater came from and how it was treated. I will assume the water is well filtered/sterilized and sanitized before dehydration. If so, it should be fine.


But I also do not see the advantage of this salt. I mean, if it's just NaCl that's being produced from the ocean (with some undisclosed micronutrients that may or may not be compounded into useless precipitates)--- what advantage is that other than maybe being slightly more "pure" (maybe) than other brands?

What levels do you-- the manufacturer--- boost the calcium, magnesium, strontium, potassium, etc.... to after the dehydration?


EDIT: You probably aren't the manufacturer, sorry.
Now you're touching the key words
Since all the synthetic or natural salts contain NACL in different concentration and from different locations - your question is right......if the ratio of calcium mg. Sr. And other elements reach the level of NSW without precipitation and the salt formula is balanced than it will be equal to any other salt from this category. There are different categories of quality and price and you can find the research about each one of them here.

http://www.aquariumwatertesting.com/...lysis_0208.pdf

In that research you can see how many impurities you have in some leading salts as the direct result of the location of the NACL and other additional sediments.
You can evaporate NACL from any sea- Baltic , pacific , Indian or Mediterranean
And the question is if every sea has the same chemical relations that will support better our reef . What I think is that evaporated NACL from tropical environment have better potential than the others.
But at the end of the day the results and information of the users will give a better answer for the long run and the value of money compared to other brands. If I'll get high quality with a good price......I'll go for it


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Unread 05/10/2010, 02:12 PM   #14
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Cool video, thanks.

Is this salt made at the same facility as red sea salt? The video does not show a NEW facility.


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Unread 05/10/2010, 02:52 PM   #15
yitman
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10X for the video - refreshing.

As far as I know Royal nature made at a different facility then Red sea salt
and Royal nature uses some of the components that Red sea is using coming from the Red Sea
but it's has different formula, smaller batch and very high purity.


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Unread 05/10/2010, 02:56 PM   #16
stanlalee
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and what new about this again?

a) the process is the same old redsea/D&D process

b) there is nothing natural about the evaporating salt process as the precipitated elements HAVE TO be added back to get anywhere near seawater levels which makes it no more natural than adding additives to a base NaCl (how do you think they get that ).

c) nice reef footage all the same


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Unread 05/10/2010, 03:26 PM   #17
yitman
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No one said that the evaporation process is new.

Red Sea /D&D process is the same process when using evaporation NACL



Evaporating process is known for more then 3000 years ...


But if you know to use this evaporating of NACL which is more then 85% in sea water and you use the right additives in the right proportion you have a winning salt

Basically all kind of salts using NACL either from a mine or from the sea and all add the other precipitated materials this way or another

And if everything is the same than why we have such a big difference between Red Sea and D&D?


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Unread 05/10/2010, 10:50 PM   #18
stanlalee
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My comments are based on this statement:

Quote:
"Royal Nature, a new aquarium salt developed and manufactured in Israel, is coming on the scene using evaporated seawater instead of the typical industry norm of base materials from mines. In development the past few years, the Royal Nature salt is comprised nearly entirely of evaporated water from the Red Sea helping to make sure the trace element balance is as close to natural seawater (NSW) as possible and clean from the concentrations of toxic metals, phosphate, ammonia and nitrates typically found in salts mined from ancient lake beds"
the whole notion that the evaporating process makes it more natural and less likely to have impurities is nonsense. NaCl itself can be had in high purity and since ALL synthetic sea salts HAVE TO add additional elements to approach seawater like levels (evaporated seawater included) synthetic sea salts are no better or worse than the additives they add.

the difference between redsea salt, redsea "pro" salt and D&D only substantiate there is nothing all that natural about the final formula. they add elements like everybody else. they are different because the final product has little to do with this process and more to do with the unnatural process that follows. And there is NO justification for D&D being $20 more than redsea pro. IF the process is suppose to keep "minor" elements close to seawater as implied what are you paying for? calcium in redsea pro is just as high as D&D, carbonates (alk) are higher, mg not far off and K for redsea unknown, sulfates for either unknown (that covers what 98% of seawater make up). I think the main difference between redsea pro and D&D is psychological after spending $20 more bucks.


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Unread 05/27/2010, 04:31 PM   #19
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and what new about this again?

a) the process is the same old redsea/D&D process
RedSea are the manufacturer of the D&D salt.

RoyalNature is a brand buys his salt from the same source of RedSea.

Israel has only one manufacturer of evaporation salt from the Red Sea. As you can see the manufacturer's site http://salt.co.il/index.php?pid=51&cat_id=8 (product -> Natural Red Sea Salt)

All the pictures you've seen the film production process of RoyalNature salt are the real manufacturer of the Israeli Salt company.

RoyalNature & RedSea (also for D&D) buy the salt from the Israel Salt company, add additives and selling it to world markets.


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Unread 05/28/2010, 01:03 AM   #20
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as far as i know ronharel is the owner of RoyalNature & yitman is his partner.


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Unread 05/28/2010, 01:13 AM   #21
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i feel the same as PPLXR

Sounds like a drug rep pitch.


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Unread 05/28/2010, 01:17 AM   #22
PPLXR
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i feel the same as PPLXR

Sounds like a drug rep pitch.
I don't feel. I know.


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Unread 05/28/2010, 02:17 PM   #23
TheH
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PPLXR, why did you create a new account behind which to make that statement? Are you expecting retaliation or that the mods will get involved?

In any case, I don't see that this process is unique to royal nature so afaik there is nothing new here. Would like to see what the reef chemistry people say.


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Unread 05/29/2010, 12:41 PM   #24
PPLXR
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In any case, I don't see that this process is unique to royal nature so afaik there is nothing new here. Would like to see what the reef chemistry people say.

In Israel there is only one company (The Israel Salt Company) that makes salt evaporation from the Red Sea. All companies (RedSea, RedSea for D&D, RoyalNature) are buying it and selling it to the world markets.

http://salt.co.il/index.php?pid=51&cat_id=8


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Unread 05/29/2010, 03:22 PM   #25
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That's interesting. So they all get the same salt and then add different trace elements?


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