Rock reincarnation... beyond "cooking"

[tmz]

.29ppm isn't too bad. I cured some running up to .9. It took a couple of weeks. Seaklear may have some sodium chloride. I haven't checked the mds lately. Anyway as you know the sodium chloride won't do any harm. Good luck with it and let me know how it works out.

[stormrider27]

Originally Posted by tmz

.29ppm isn't too bad. I cured some running up to .9. It took a couple of weeks. Seaklear may have some sodium chloride. I haven't checked the mds lately. Anyway as you know the sodium chloride won't do any harm. Good luck with it and let me know how it works out.

Thanks Tom, I poured in about 1/8 of a cup for three days in a row. On the first day the water cleared up really quickly, the second time it took longer and the water is still cloudy from this morning's dose. I am going to wait a week and check the phosphate level before adding any more.

I keep forgetting to ask, does water temp have any effect? My tub is in the garage and the water is pretty cold.

Thanks again for your help and I will add another update in about a week.

[tmz]

Cold water will slow down metabolic rates including bacteria that breakdown ammonia/nitrite and nitrate . This shouldn't effect lanthanum phoshate precipitation very much though as far as I know . How cold is it there? I have a place in Kitty Hawk NC about 60 miles doen the beach from you and need to make sure the heat is on.

Here in Buffalo it's sub 20 degrees plus wind chill with about 4 feet of snow. So in my garage nothing works too well.

[stormrider27]

Tom, you may want to turn on the heat to keep your pipes from freezing. At night the temp is getting down in the 20's in Virginia Beach, it is usually a little warmer in Kitty Hawk. While we won't get down to Buffalo temps, I think we will have a colder than usual winter down here.

My rock isn't alive yet. I wanted to treat my dead rock and get the phosphates down before seeding. Even though my garage is some what temperature controlled, I plan to bring the tub inside when I bring my rock back to life.

Mark

[stormrider27]

I thought I would post an update on reducing the PO4 levels of my dry rock (which is soaking in 30 gallons of RO) with lanthanum chloride. I poured in the first dose into my curing bin with a powerhead on Dec 8th and the water clouded up very quickly. I added about 1/4 a cup each day for about 4 days during which the RO water really got cold due to the bin being in my garage. A week ago I purchased a heater and added another 1/4 a cup. Tonight I tested the water and it is reading .12, down from .29, using a Hana meter so I added another 1/4 a cup. Should I wait until my readings hit zero before rinsing off the rock and start seeding?

Thanks,
Mark

[tmz]

Thanks for the weather update for the Va/NC coast. I have a contractor working in my place due to water damage from Earl. The heat is on.

1/4 cup sounds like a lot for 30 gs . I used it a capful or two at a time. I'd personally shoot for a week at sub .1 ppm PO4 without dosing additional lanthNum before using the rock in the display

[stormrider27]

Thanks Tom. I am happy to read the heat at your home in the O.B. is on as we are expecting to get 2-6" of snow tomorrow evening Looks like we might have white Christmas for the first time that I can ever remember and I have lived here since '79.

[UtahGetMe2]

This thread is great... I just got marco, BRS tonga Branch and a bunch of dead coral from vacation. I was planning to treat the rock before I start up my new tank because the BRS branch has dried organic material all over it and the dead coral seems a little dirty. I don't know if I'm going to treat the marco too much as it is extremely porous and might get eaten away too much too fast, but I am definitely going to treat the other stuff.

Would I be ok with scrubbing all rocks with a wire brush and rinsing, then doing a long bleach bath (24 hours or so) and then only a short acid bath 1.5 hours or so? I don't want to dissolve the rock away too much, but I do want to treat it a little to get all the excess crap off the outside.

[tmz]

I would just cure dry macro rock like live rock and add a little lanthanum chloride to precipitate PO4 if it shows up in the curing water.
The organics will decay and cycle and I doubt there is anything alive on it to warrant a bleach treatment.
Mostly, I'd worry about phosphate based on my experience and keeping it in 0 PO4 water via lanthanum chloride will cause that to leach out over the course of a few weeks. Bleach won't get at the phosphate ; an acid bath will if you are in a hurry but it will dissolve some of the rock.

[UtahGetMe2]

I bleached the rock over night in 2:10 bleach solution and then after rinsing well with hose water and prime, I did a 1:10 muriatic acid bath for 2 hours. Then I neutralized with a ton of baking soda and let it sit for about a half hour. Then I diluted with hose water and rinsed several times and then finally threw it in a bath of hose water with a ton of prime with a pump and was planning to take it out and let it dry out the next day. When I opened it up some of the pieces looked like they had a thin coat of yellowish brown gel on the surface.

What should I do to remove? I was thinking lightly scrub with a wire brush and rinse a bunch of times then let dry out? Did I mess up the process? I didn't do a longer acid bath becase the rocks weren't extremely dirty and didn't want to eat too much away.

[ooja3k]

I will be doing this shortly to my dead rock.

I had taken down my tank during a move due to dino's taking over everywhere.

A shipment of Marco shelf rock will be arriving next week to add to my existing dead rock. It is at that time when I will bleach it all and perform the muriatic bath.

I know the majority of this thread is an older one, so from the people who performed this procedure a while ago? How has the rock turned out in the long term? No ill effects of any kind?

Any advice for when I do the bathing?

I do plan on epoxying a couple of the rocks together to form my aquascape. At what phase in the process should I do this? I am thinking after the neutralized muriatic bath, so that they may cure in their final shape.

Thanks,
Ryan

[SeanT]

This is a very interesting read, much different advice than I usually advocate which is to "cook" your rocks.

I have a question, and I am NO chemist .

When doing the acid phase, why use RODI water instead of tap water?
Is it due to the chlorine in the tap water?

[SeanT]

ttt

[tmz]

When doing the acid phase, why use RODI water instead of tap water?
Is it due to the chlorine in the tap water ?

Tap water is probably ok as the acid should deal with any minute residual chlorine but other things like PO4 ,metals( copper from plumbing) etc could cause problems, I suppose, depending on the tap water used for the soak and the vigor employed in rinsing .

[roni]

Very informative thread. Quick question...when you're using the lanthanum chloride to precipitate out p04, are you still seeding the new dry rock with old live rock or a bacterial product...i.e. do you need to finish and get the p04 to zero before starting cycling or can you do it all at once? The reason I ask is I picked up about 80 lbs of BRS Pukani rock that had formerly been in a tank but was dried. My plan is to use a toothbrush to scrub it, add it to a tank full of saltwater with a powerhead, and then check p04 after a few days and add lanthanum chloride as needed. However, I'd like to kickstart the cycling process and was thinking of adding some rock from my refugium or a bacterial product like mb7...is this overkill?

[tmz]

The LaCl won't affect the nitrogen cycle. You can do it all at once.
I doubt a PO4 shortage ( it would be unlikely to get it below .005ppm ,surface seawater levels)will occur which would limit bacterial growth particulary since the rock you are using holds organics which will contribute some phosphate to the process as the organics decay and fuel the cycle with nitrogen, phosphorous and organic carbon.
I'd add some live rock from the sump. The bacterial supplement may/may not help depending on the viability of the bacteria in it.

[reefboarder]

Originally Posted by chrisqueenz

this should be a "sticky"... Great step by step guide!

+1

[toddmh]

I used this method to cook a bunch of rock...works great..

[reefboarder]

I continue to seek out and read this because the time is soon approaching when I too will be cooking every last rock I own in an attempt to eliminate Phosphate leaching, aips, majanos,and a few types of algae that plague my aquarium. as well as possible other undesired inverts and critters that hitched in from the gulf of mexico.

[roni]

Originally Posted by tmz

The LaCl won't affect the nitrogen cycle. You can do it all at once.
I doubt a PO4 shortage ( it would be unlikely to get it below .005ppm ,surface seawater levels)will occur which would limit bacterial growth particulary since the rock you are using holds organics which will contribute some phosphate to the process as the organics decay and fuel the cycle with nitrogen, phosphorous and organic carbon.
I'd add some live rock from the sump. The bacterial supplement may/may not help depending on the viability of the bacteria in it.

thanks, just saw your response...quick question, is lacl available at home depot/lowes or do you have to go to a specialty place? would phosguard work in this capacity?

[tmz]

No, Home Depot does not carry it. I got it from a pool supply store. Brand name i Seaklear; you can find it on line.
Phosgaurd would require a reactor for best efficiency and might exhaust quickly if the rock leaches lots of PO4.

[ShelbyJK500]

Hey all...just got a link to this thread as I've been searching for this exact topic for a good while now. GREAT thread!! One question I didn't see come up on here that I've heard several times. Can using vinegar as a muriatic acid replacement work? If so, at what strength should it be used in place of the muriatic?? Thanks!

[reefboarder]

Not knowing for sure Ill give my opinion, and that is that vinegar would probably be a bit too weak to achieve such results even in higher concentrations. It would probably help clean some things off but it would need to be soaked for very extended periods. so IMO the acid bath would be much more efficient but a bit more hazardous to work with. Im sure someone else will have more info before too long.

[Barfly]

You can use vinegar at 100% strength. Depending on the quantity of rock, it might not be too economical.

[ShelbyJK500]

I think I made a big mistake. I got all finished and added a big bag of baking soda to the acid bath to make it neutral. I let it sit awhile then drained most of it spraying the rock while draining several times. I thought I would let it sit in Prime overnight.

WELL...got to it in the afternoon and I have baking soda CAKED on to the bottom pieces or rock in the trough. It's caked on as hard as the rock itself. I've tried scraping, brushing, scrubbing, etc. Most of it won't come off. I even tried soaking one of the badly caked rocks in straight vinegar for awhile to see if it would soften up the BS. NOTHING...HELP...any suggestions. I'm assuming this caked on baking soda will mess with my levels if I leave it on and put in the tank?!?