|
10/06/2015, 02:04 AM | #2026 | |
Registered Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: sweden
Posts: 35
|
Quote:
1)Algenex works, but the dinos will often be back and the corals suffer some from algenex. 2) cut off the light works but only for the moment. it will be back 3) Probiotica does not work 4) Rising ph is difficult and has no clear effect. I have red some studies that tell the counterpart but i doubt... The only cure i succeded with is to eliminate all the sand, as it Always start there. Then, rinse the sand in H20 ands replace after one week. It has in my all cases succeded with 100%! I have also noticed one more thing: There is a Connection between fine sand(up to around 1 mm) and more dino. In an aquarium with mixed sandbed i noticed that there was no dino in the bed with grain size over 2 mm, all the dinos was in the sugarsand. After that i swithed to grain size around 2-5 mm and i have had no dinos since. |
|
10/06/2015, 08:14 AM | #2027 | |
Registered Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 368
|
Quote:
I think only certain types of Dino are affected by cure X. High PH seems to kill some types of Dino. I think the proper way to tackle them is to try multiple things and maybe even go down a list of things to try in a certain order (from easiest to hardest or maybe risk). For instance. X notices dinoflagellates. Lowest Risk: 1) Stop Water Changes 2) Add Pods and feed phyto 3) Lights Outs for 3-4 days 4) Siphon Sand bed 4) If this is positive do the same thing 1-2 times a month until Dino is gone Medium Risk: 1) Start building up bacteria and other competition (pods) 2) Lights out 3) Siphon Sand bed High Risk: 1) Dose H2O2 at X rate while lights out 2) Keep Lights out for 3-4 days and continue daily dose of H2O2 3) Remove Sandbed Thats why I think it would be nice for someone who is smarter than me to write up a Article about dino and list out a plan to tackle them. Show all options (UV, H2O2, pods, Bacteria additions, No Water changes, lights out etc....). The article should also go into identification and how it is believed that they can work with Cyano. Explain a microscope is a sure way to ID it and show examples of different types along with Dino/Cyano blends. |
|
10/06/2015, 08:27 AM | #2028 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: sweden
Posts: 35
|
natas, you have to remove very very carefully ALL sand, every grain...wait one or two weeks...AND if you already have some one the rocks this is not sufficient as you say. According to my experience dinos nearly almost start at the sand, so if you do not wait to it go to the rock, you can eliminate it with sand extraction. But, it is very important to take everything out and that is not so easy. concerning grain size it is a "medium risk" maybe, so of course you can get dino in that grain size, but in my tanks it has come much faster with more fine sand.
Algea X has not worked for me, maybe because different dinos as you say, but Algenex is frequently used in Sweden with almost always 100% success, BUT big recurrence rate!.. I promise you...let me struggle an aquarium with dino only in the sanded and i will get rid of it. It is the only way that really worked for me, and the aquarist i have helped the last year. But i cannot enough stress, that this is not the true if you have it on the rocks. The you have to remove the rocks and clean them off in saltwater, and then observe carefully, and wait to introduce sand to you cannot see anymore dinos. |
10/06/2015, 08:33 AM | #2029 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: sweden
Posts: 35
|
concerning siphoning sandbeds i have the opposite experience, that this is worsening the problem already the day after...you disturb the normal flora but the dinos is left.
|
10/06/2015, 08:49 AM | #2030 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 355
|
All these methods have been tried and tested several times. Dino's are never gone, just kept in check by some mysterious boundary. The most knowledgable scientists can't tell you how to completely eradicate them, so I am more then a little sceptical. Unless you have been without Dino's for 12 months, I don't consider you Dino free.
What strain of Dino's did you have.
__________________
Current tank info: 30gal sumpless 120gal with 40gal sump 90gal freshwater - 2 angel, blood parrot, 3 mystery snails, pleco, and a school of rasbora's |
10/06/2015, 12:20 PM | #2031 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 355
|
__________________
Current tank info: 30gal sumpless 120gal with 40gal sump 90gal freshwater - 2 angel, blood parrot, 3 mystery snails, pleco, and a school of rasbora's |
10/06/2015, 01:16 PM | #2032 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 390
|
@jonasroman My experience with sandbeds mirrors yours. My dinos aren't on the sand much at all, they prefer the glass and rocks. Siphoning my sandbed actually made them worse. This may be species dependent, we just don't know.
@natas I've been fooling with a summary/flow chart sort of thing for identifying dinos. I tried to make a graph of all the methods of kill mentioned in this thread, but it's not going to be possible. Single methods tend not to work, and I am becoming certain that different genera have different vulnerabilities. Also I can't figure out how to make a chart comparing various groups and multiple methods. tldr version: first things I'd try (all of these at the same time): stop water changes, pull chemical filtration except carbon, siphon what you can, run skimmer very wet, add a lot of carbon and do a 3 day lights out. Add filter socks or as much mechanical filtration as you can. I use cheesecloth in my aio. You'll need to change the socks at least daily, more during lights out. It's very important to skim and run carbon during lights out. Longer lights out knock dinos back, but rarely kill them off completely. Lower photoperiod doesn't seem to have any effect either. 2nd step is probably: You want measurable nitrates, ~1 or 2, and phosphate around 0.03. (Less nitrate in an SPS tank) Add a lot of biodiversity, dose phyto, feed as many kinds of foods w different particle sizes as you can afford, stop skimming, pull all chemical media except carbon. If you have a reactor, try raising pH to 8.4 (If you don't it's nearly impossible unless you're home to add kalk on the hour) 3rd step: technology and chemistry hth ivy biodiversity: pods from different sources (try to get benthic pods or a mix of copepods, amphipods, isopods etc), macroalgae, rocks, sand from fellow reefers, skimmate from someone with a good tank (yes, really), detrivore or maintenance kits from IPSF, reefcleaners, tbs
__________________
28g cube, CF 105watts! Tunze 9001. Tiny frags: Euphyllia, blasto, ricordea and a rock flower anemone. Lost fish and inverts due to ongoing outbreak of dinoflagellates. Current Tank Info: 28g aio, 105 watt CF lights, no sump or skimmer. 2 sexy shrimp, tiny frogspawn, tiny toadstool, tiny lps. Started Feb '15 Last edited by Quiet_Ivy; 10/06/2015 at 01:20 PM. Reason: forgot the socks! |
10/06/2015, 01:27 PM | #2033 | |
Registered Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: sweden
Posts: 35
|
Quote:
Jonas |
|
10/06/2015, 01:35 PM | #2034 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Iceland
Posts: 1,516
|
Thanks LuciDog.
This is why a proper identification with a microscope is at the top of the list to do. |
10/07/2015, 04:42 PM | #2035 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: corunna,ontario,canada
Posts: 269
|
18 weeks dino free!
Ostreopsis Ovata. Dirty method. Still dosing 400 ml phyto daily and adding pods periodically, tisbe, tiger and amphipods. Still using 10 micron socks but plan to switch back to 100 micron soon. |
10/08/2015, 01:03 PM | #2036 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gig Harbor, WA
Posts: 230
|
Cal_str,
where do you get Ostreopsis Ovata? |
10/08/2015, 03:21 PM | #2037 |
Registered Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 11,033
|
That's the strain of dino he was infected with.
__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape |
10/09/2015, 06:39 AM | #2038 | |
Registered Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 46
|
Quote:
It's been 1.5 weeks since stopping peroxide dosing for me and I am dino free so far. I did 2 weeks of peroxide/2-day complete blackout, no water changes/skimming. After the peroxide I setup chaeto w/light in my sump and added pods, as well as building up my CuC more. Also have microalgae on the way. On top of all that I've been overfeeding and using frozen food, broadcasting coral frenzy, etc. It's weird because my tank has never looked so clean!! |
|
10/09/2015, 02:33 PM | #2039 | |
Registered Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: corunna,ontario,canada
Posts: 269
|
Quote:
|
|
10/09/2015, 08:49 PM | #2040 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 1,642
|
For everyone running/who ran the dirty method, how high did your nitrates and PO4 get and did you lose any sps corals?
|
10/09/2015, 09:28 PM | #2041 |
Registered Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 11,033
|
Is it just cost that drives a preference for the dirty method over the clean method?
__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape |
10/10/2015, 04:33 AM | #2042 | |
Registered Member
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Iceland
Posts: 1,516
|
Quote:
UV has pros and cons. The water column gets pristine because the UV kills all the plankton in it. High power UV and max efficiency with slow flow is certain to leave nothing alive coming out of it. It's use on reef health has been debated for decades and I have nothing to add to that. I'm glad it seems to have worked for you but what happens when you turn the UV off for a week or two? |
|
10/10/2015, 10:22 AM | #2043 |
Registered Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 11,033
|
The water column isn't pristine. I have more plankton in this tank than I've had in any other. At night, I shine a flashlight into the water and I see a cloud of reflective creatures wriggling towards the light source. I have multiple videos of broods of shrimp nauplii, pods and fish fry.
It has nothing to do with the UV. Dinos are free floating at night and I zap enough of them that they cannot win. I zap others too but it's slow enough that the rest of the plankton that's alive feeds on the dead. It's no different than adding one big plankton predator... It just keeps them in check without destroying the population. Most of my plankton is likely juvenile stages of benthic adults. So, the parents continue to pump babies and some don't make it. It doesn't kill the chain. More babies keep coming. What did the most damage to the dinos was the three days of dark with UV. They had nowhere to be safe. They were exterminated along with some good guys. But the base of plankton didn't die. It just got a massive advantage. By the way, the single biggest reason I have so much plankton is the absence of mechanical filters - no socks, no sponges, no bags. These are the real plankton killers. They destroy the mid tier plankton base and turn their bodies into local waste for bacteria and dinos to feed on. If you clean them often, that's good housekeeping and avoids bigger problems but it's just another way to throw plankton away. Just my view based on what I've experienced.
__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape |
10/10/2015, 10:29 AM | #2044 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: WEST ALLIS ,WI
Posts: 922
|
i did the 3 day black out twice with peroxide dosing,,,it seems to be at bay now ..i also turned my leds down a bit and it think that helped alot too....so far so good
|
10/10/2015, 10:44 AM | #2045 |
Registered Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 11,033
|
Maybe there's an opportunity to create a heavy peroxide reactor where the water is cleansed without releasing peroxide into the tank.
__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape |
10/10/2015, 01:59 PM | #2046 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 557
|
DInos are no longer on sand bed, but on rocks. Red Slime is growing on two of my corals (Acans). How should I go about cleaning them? Water change? I haven't done a water change in 3 - 4 weeks. Should I do chemi clean? I did chemi clean last time and dinos exploded (I think). Not sure what to do
|
10/10/2015, 02:12 PM | #2047 |
Registered Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 11,033
|
red slime needs increased flow and more water changes. It also should be manually removed or siphoned since the slime is really a poisonous biproduct of the bacteria, not the bacteria itself.
__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape |
10/10/2015, 04:34 PM | #2048 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 1,642
|
|
10/16/2015, 08:26 AM | #2049 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Valley Forge, PA
Posts: 2,655
|
Originally Posted by BigJohnny View Post
For everyone running/who ran the dirty method, how high did your nitrates and PO4 get and did you lose any sps corals? BigJohnny, I just thought of this as well. I've been running dirty method for months now and kept worrying about the same. I dont have any SPS to worry about but I wanted to test NO3 and PO4. I was SURE they're be off the charts. What did I find to my surprise? NO3 = 0.1 P04 = 0.00 I've been overloading with food, no water changes, no skimming for months. I do have a functioning DSB that I give credit to the low NO3
__________________
Bryan Current Tank Info: 220 since Nov 2005 |
10/16/2015, 08:27 AM | #2050 |
Registered Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Valley Forge, PA
Posts: 2,655
|
Question about the Dirty method. I've seen some recent posts showing people going Dirty but also skimming and running carbon.
Does that still qualify as dirty? I havent done either while in dirty mode. Is it recommended I wet skim and run carbon?
__________________
Bryan Current Tank Info: 220 since Nov 2005 |
|
|