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Unread 08/25/2017, 10:28 AM   #9601
jason2459
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd R Turbo View Post
I think what he was saying that is if he isn't currently dosing iron and he's getting that much growth, that if he then started dosing iron, his growth would explode.
Yes

lol


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Unread 08/25/2017, 12:32 PM   #9602
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I control nutrients by sequestering instead of exporting. I don't need to add iron because I don't take anything away

By the way, sequestration and food chain recycling is how nature cleans things up too.

There's no net export on the reefs. In open waters, dead animals do fall into the deep and some may eventually turn into oil... LOL

Let me add this - my reef and my algae garden/scrubber are both key to each others' survival. In my future tanks, I plan to fully cultivate my algae gardens way before I light up my reef. The algae is the solid base of life, not just an export tool.


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Unread 08/26/2017, 06:25 AM   #9603
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Karimwassef, you comments on nutrient sequestration have potentially condensed 385 pages of ATS discussion into a simple concept. Do you not feed "other" nutrients? Thanks for the thought stimulating discussion.


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Unread 08/26/2017, 09:52 AM   #9604
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I do. I like feeding bananas and my kids like it when I feed flake food or coral food. But the majority is the algae.

So where does it go? My algal biomass has been growing over the past year but I set up a large system to handle it. In my next tank, the algae setup will be as big or bigger than the reef tank. When I started recycling, I could go 2-3 weeks and let it build to the size of a 5 gallon bucket of algae. As the biomass grew, it's regeneration accelerated so I get a 3 gal bucket every week. I can let it go for two weeks without issue but then it's a chore.

If I were disciplined to only feed the algae, it would stay constant, but I just really enjoy other foods. So it's my fault

So what do the fish and corals eat during the week - between algae feedings? It takes the algae eaters ~three days to eat the algae. The rest live off the pods that float in from the scrubber. I will feed meaty foods to triggers, etc... and the secret food is the fish poop.

I said that in another thread and the person thought I was making fun of him (actually got angry) but I'm totally serious. The mountains of poop are coral food or become coral food through the action of worms and pods. No skimmer - that would just remove the golden goodness from my system. No filters or socks either - that would trap the food and pods.

I guess I'm kind of a farmer. My friends are poop and worms and algae makes the world go round.

Downside - if you like a perfect glass tank with zero particulates and slow coral growth, this would be terrible. When I snorkel in crystal clear water, the food in the water is insane. That's what I have. Little specs floating to feed the coral constantly and a lot of flow to keep it suspended. But my corals suffer by growing out of the water and into each other constantly. That means more work and I'm a lazy reef gardner.


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Unread 08/26/2017, 02:44 PM   #9605
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This is my first week with the ATS, and first cleaning. I only just ran it under water and brushed it off with my fingers. The algae was slimy and most came off.

Sent from my STV100-1 using Tapatalk


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Originally posted by der_wille_zur_macht:

"He's just taking his lunch to work"
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Unread 08/26/2017, 06:55 PM   #9606
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My new turbo's aquatics rev4 L8




Made a bracket for it to sit on



My diy diy Iron on a doser to feed the algae



Algae already starting to attach after a few weeks



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Unread 08/26/2017, 08:14 PM   #9607
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Quote:
Originally Posted by homer1475 View Post
This is my first week with the ATS, and first cleaning. I only just ran it under water and brushed it off with my fingers. The algae was slimy and most came off.

Sent from my STV100-1 using Tapatalk
Did u rough up the mesh? That looks very smooth to me....you need to really rough that up good, like 10x more

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


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Unread 08/28/2017, 02:47 PM   #9608
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Yes I roughed it up quite a bit. Used the hole saw, then a wire brush on my drill.

I think it's just the picture that makes it look rather smooth. If you look above the sharpie line(Where I didn't rough it up) looks the same as the rough part.

I'll see how it grows, if I don't get any attachment I'll rough it up some more.


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Originally posted by der_wille_zur_macht:

"He's just taking his lunch to work"
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Unread 08/28/2017, 02:53 PM   #9609
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I would go brush, then blade. Saw blade is better. Mortar coating is good but not necessary, gets things started faster though.




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Algae Scrubber Basics!!! GOOGLE "algaescrubber zoho"
General Interest Forums --> Advanced Topics --> Algae Scrubber Basics (sticky)
--> POSTS #3251-64 (Basics), #5206 (Cleaning), #6884 (LEDs), #729
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Unread 08/28/2017, 04:14 PM   #9610
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OK significantly roughed up the screen. First shot is the top unroughed up, the second is the middle roughed up.

Sent from my STV100-1 using Tapatalk


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80G SCA Build: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2560256

Originally posted by der_wille_zur_macht:

"He's just taking his lunch to work"
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Unread 08/28/2017, 05:34 PM   #9611
karimwassef
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I used a drill bit - round steel brush - for cleaning off rust from metal.

Went so fast, I needed to slow down a lot or it would eat right through


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Unread 08/28/2017, 07:40 PM   #9612
Floyd R Turbo
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I defer back to the wire brush crimp bit followed by the saw blade, as shown in my video above. I've made over 400 screens. This is by far the best method, and I've tried coming up with a better way.


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Algae Scrubber Basics!!! GOOGLE "algaescrubber zoho"
General Interest Forums --> Advanced Topics --> Algae Scrubber Basics (sticky)
--> POSTS #3251-64 (Basics), #5206 (Cleaning), #6884 (LEDs), #729
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Unread 08/28/2017, 08:21 PM   #9613
karimwassef
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Anyone used these? Looks like it could be cheaper than my DIY so I'm curious

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B06Y4...YC6?th=1&psc=1


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Unread 08/28/2017, 08:37 PM   #9614
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No water rating, not dimmable, otherwise looks like a workhorse.


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Algae Scrubber Basics!!! GOOGLE "algaescrubber zoho"
General Interest Forums --> Advanced Topics --> Algae Scrubber Basics (sticky)
--> POSTS #3251-64 (Basics), #5206 (Cleaning), #6884 (LEDs), #729
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Unread 08/28/2017, 09:59 PM   #9615
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Hmmm. I'm moving so I'll be tearing my system down. In the interim, I'm going to set up an outside tank in my dad's house and going super duper cheap.

The idea is to use a 300gal Rubbermaid stock tank and then use just a scrubber and air injector. The scrubber will be mounted higher making the DT effectively the sump... should be a very cheap backyard build. Still MH lights though but might go solar for the scrubber!!!!

If I'm right, the corals should continue to grow just as fast as they're doing in my big expensive tank.

This will be the ultimate test though... just scrubber and air. Even the live rock is out. The only in-tank structures will be my concrete covered PVC...


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Unread 08/29/2017, 09:20 AM   #9616
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Hah! That light was a scam. It's "1000W of light" but only consumes "200W" of power. They mean that it's comparable to 1000W bulb- still false advertising imo.

So not comparable to my 500W real LED power DIY.


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Unread 08/29/2017, 09:35 AM   #9617
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Got my turbo L3 online and ready to work!!


corey


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Unread 08/29/2017, 11:39 AM   #9618
Floyd R Turbo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karimwassef View Post
Hah! That light was a scam. It's "1000W of light" but only consumes "200W" of power. They mean that it's comparable to 1000W bulb- still false advertising imo.

So not comparable to my 500W real LED power DIY.
You didn't notice that? #1 thing to always look for is actual LEDs and rating - that one had 100x 10W, but that wattage rating is just marketing so their "average power draw 180-200W" tells me they are running those at well under the rated current, probably because their heat sink sucks so in order to extend life they knock it down, either that or their driver sucks and pushing it any harder would cause it to blow up.

This is pretty much the case with every off-the-shelf product, you have to pay for the good stuff, there's really no getting around that.


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Algae Scrubber Basics!!! GOOGLE "algaescrubber zoho"
General Interest Forums --> Advanced Topics --> Algae Scrubber Basics (sticky)
--> POSTS #3251-64 (Basics), #5206 (Cleaning), #6884 (LEDs), #729
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Unread 08/29/2017, 02:24 PM   #9619
karimwassef
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There's DIY


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Unread 08/31/2017, 05:05 PM   #9620
Wally.B
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Algae Scrubber Suddenly Halts as N & P Dropped

Got a quick question.

My DIY Algae Scrubber has been doing great over last year. During peak stage is was producing many Grams of Algae every other week at harvest time.

Initially it went through the Slime Stage, and then Matured to the Stringy Green Hair Algae, then more into a Macro/GHA Algae mix that needed Light Screen Scraping.

Just before it stopped, it started producing a thicker macro Algae that came out like butter.

I was always running GFO very lightly and after changing media P dropped again....

As Nitrate = 5ppm and Phosphate continued to drop, at P=0.04ppm the Scrubber stopped to a screeching halt.

I do have some snail in the Scrubber since it's built into a Sump, and they polished it clean as seen below.



I first thought why not increase photo period so I increasd from 18 hours to 20, then to 22 hours and that hasn't done a thing.

Nitrates are rising N approx. 25ppm, and P around 0.12ppm. But Scrubber is still idle.

So now I reduced photo period down to 12 hours, hoping it kicks in.

It this normal? Is photo reduction the thing to do?


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Unread 08/31/2017, 05:56 PM   #9621
karimwassef
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algae needs both N and P. By running a GFO, you're starving them.

You need balance, so do some water changes to reset. Feed more and it should fix itself


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Unread 08/31/2017, 09:01 PM   #9622
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Doesn't need nearly the amount of P vs. N. Many may still need to run GFO or not. Just need to make sure there's a detectable amount.

My system is continuously at around 2.5-5mg/L of Nitrates and around 0.02-0.09ppm of phosphates. Scrubber growth is good. So, to me those numbers above are not a limiting factor. Possibly other trace elements are like Iron, Zinc, etc.


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Unread 08/31/2017, 09:19 PM   #9623
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Quote:
the ultimate test though... just scrubber and air
One main thing different is the lack of periphyton on the rocks, which generates a lot of food particles.

You'll certainly want to have separate units, at least three, and clean only one at a time (if you are cleaning; which of course is not needed if seeking a self-sustaining system).

Quote:
Scrubber has been doing great over last year
It's doing what it does: grow less for less nutrients. Just keep the slime off the screen, and let nutrients rise again, and feed more if you want.


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Unread 08/31/2017, 10:01 PM   #9624
Wally.B
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karimwassef View Post
algae needs both N and P. By running a GFO, you're starving them.

You need balance, so do some water changes to reset. Feed more and it should fix itself
This is a SPS only tank. 3rd attempt so rebuilt, re-designed, and totally automated for stability and Max Nutrient Import/Export.

My system has a DIY Controller Based Water Changer. (One push of a button. Does WC in custom Sump section. Easy so I do WC regularily).
I do 5 % Water Changes twice a week, using Tropic Marin PRO Salt which should be keeping all Elements up.

I don't dose Potassium which is one of the more important Elements for Algae, and it's at 400ppm. Thus I trust the other elements are fine too.

Yes, feeding more might be the trick. I feed 2-3 times a day a variety of Flake, Pellets and Frozen Food.

I know there are nutrients flowing thru Scrubber since Scrubber is First Stage. Skimmer 2nd stage, and Skimmer Cup fills up with Thick Skim every few days.
Here is the Sump Design with Built in Scrubber. Refuge area shown in this thread was converted into the Auto Water Changer Compartment when I built the Custom Controller.
Custom Sump (Rebuild) 50 Gallon Multifunctional (TEST RUN) YouTube

The part that puzzles me is not much has really changed from when Scrubber was an Algae Factory.

Sure P dropped, but it's still there 0.08ppm (Just tested). N is just under 25ppm. That should be good enough.

GFO is in last stage, so doesn't steal any P from Scrubber. And just a tiny trickle thru reactor.

Let me see if Photo Period Reduction helps.

One really Crazy theory I have, is I have a Large Cowrie Snail in the Scrubber (Size of golf ball, but can devour GHA like a monster.). Plus a few snails.
I took him out of DT since he started eating SPS polyps and threw him into Scrubber to Enjoy the buffet.
Could Cowrie be eating all the Algae the Scrubber makes. That would re-cycle the N &P since Algae not removed.
If Cowrie could eat it all that would make it kind of a like a Perpetual Nutrient Machine.

[(1) Algae eats N & P, (2) Cowrie eats Algae and makes nutrients(Poo), (3) Corals Eat Nutrients (Poo from Cowrie), (4) Skimmer removes bad stuff]
If this is truly happening, then it might not be a bad thing. A self cleaning scrubber. Too good to be true.

I doubt it. Not Possible. Must be something else. Could a Cowrie eat 100grams of Algae in two weeks? That is what the Scrubber used to produce when N & P was higher.
But if he can eat (100Grams/60days =1.6 Grams of Algae A day) , that could explain one thing. P has dropped more then N.

Shouldn't N be reduced as effectively, but it doesn't since it's being recycled by the Cowrie.
Plus if scrubber slowed down with lower P then maybe he only needs to eat a gram a day.
What I noticed during the slow down is less and less Macro Algae was building up in the ATS. Eventually I removed that last piece.
He may be cleaning the Fine Algae building up on the screen.

I am no expert, thus recruiting the experts on this Forum to help me solve this mystery.



Last edited by Wally.B; 08/31/2017 at 11:58 PM.
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Unread 09/01/2017, 01:09 AM   #9625
karimwassef
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No.

Skimmers remove dissolved organics, not inorganics. You're removing food and bacteria - not N and P.

I run SPS without a skimmer or GFO. Algae is all you need.

The ratios of N and P should be in balance, not equal.

The cowrie creates a recycling loop but it must go through algae... inorganics > algae > eaten and turned to poo > organics > inorganics > repeat.

The middle part can go several ways...

poo > bacteria > skimmer export
poo > bacteria > sponge food (sponge sequestration)
poo > pods & worms > coral food (coral sequestration)
poo > inorganics + light > algae food (algal sequestration)
poo > inorganics + light > algae food > algae export

There's plenty of other possible chains - but they all come from poo and go back to poo

The food chain is a beautiful thing


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