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Unread 12/05/2009, 02:32 AM   #101
sabien
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Wow. This will definitely make me much more cautious handling these guys. Color is natures warning!!!


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Unread 12/05/2009, 02:47 AM   #102
lordofthereef
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Well this thread got unearthed and I am just curious how you are doing Steve? Any permanent damage?

Also a suggestion to those who do want to boil their zoas to death... drop them in a bucket outside and leave them there to cool?


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Unread 04/27/2010, 11:11 AM   #103
Shotgunlew
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My little brother was messing around in my tank last night, this morning he is throwing up, any chance that he ****ed off the zoa's in my tank & touched his hand to his mouth?

Chris


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Unread 04/27/2010, 11:58 AM   #104
hllywd
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You know, anything is possible. I doubt it's related though. It is irresponsible having your tank where a little kid an reach it though. Water weighs a bit over 62 lbs/ cubic ft. I don't know how big your tank is but it's definately a hazard if he pulls it over on himself, consider the weight, broken glass, etc... Definately a DOA possibility.

As for him throwing up being related to playing with the tank, I still doubt it's from palytoxin, however recently, a local, very experienced reefer in the CORA forum had a severe life threatening infection after fragging some zoas. The way I understand there were three different marine organisms isolated in his bloodstream, so there is some danger. Have a look at this, it's first hand, recent, directly verifiable info, not washed through the internet "grapevine". http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1838538

Tim


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Unread 04/27/2010, 01:30 PM   #105
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At least we know the OP is still alive .... his last activity on RC was yesterday. :-)


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Unread 04/27/2010, 04:35 PM   #106
Shotgunlew
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My little brothers not that little (16) but he is doing better, On another note If I have a cut on my hand, Could I to get infected.



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You know, anything is possible. I doubt it's related though. It is irresponsible having your tank where a little kid an reach it though. Water weighs a bit over 62 lbs/ cubic ft. I don't know how big your tank is but it's definately a hazard if he pulls it over on himself, consider the weight, broken glass, etc... Definately a DOA possibility.

As for him throwing up being related to playing with the tank, I still doubt it's from palytoxin, however recently, a local, very experienced reefer in the CORA forum had a severe life threatening infection after fragging some zoas. The way I understand there were three different marine organisms isolated in his bloodstream, so there is some danger. Have a look at this, it's first hand, recent, directly verifiable info, not washed through the internet "grapevine". http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1838538

Tim



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Unread 04/27/2010, 05:35 PM   #107
hllywd
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Hmmm... Obviously I posted the wrong link, theis is the correct one: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1821465

Ask Hollback what he thinks.
Tim


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Unread 04/27/2010, 05:39 PM   #108
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Thanks for all the help guys! I think im going to get a decent set of gloves for when I move my aquascape and do stuff of that nature.

Chris


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Unread 04/05/2011, 09:11 AM   #109
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Steveoutlaw is becoming famous. And for a detailed scientific discussion, here


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Unread 04/05/2011, 11:43 AM   #110
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I dont mean to be rude or anything but it can happen and I do believe somehow the palytoxins can go air borne when damaged and have been told they can since. Im no expert by any means, was a newbie to corals. I had read about them but not enough evidently. Wed bought a 100 gal. full of the most beautiful corals youd ever see about 2 months ago. Brought them home and put them in stock tanks until the water was finishing going thru the rodi. My husband & I both started to feel like we was getting a cold at the same exact time but wrote it off as thats all it was. We felt better in the morning. The smell you talked about was permeating throught the whole house but we thought it was just how corals smelled. The LR had corals growing all over them and was impossible not to damage, especially the zoos it seemed. I remember them squishing in my glove and felt bad I did it to them.

The next day we put the corals back in thier tank and immediately we started feeling bad agian. My throat felt like it was closing off, sneezing like crazy, hard to breath like something heavy was on my chest, choking on a thick slime that I couldnt cough up hardly, like a bad flu that drags down so bad ya dont wanna move from bed. My husband wasnt as bad feeling as me and he mentioned it might be the corals but I wasnt convinced totally. He went on to work. I just slept n slept like I could barely wake up. I woke about 2 am and was like I was paralyzed, it took everything I could to pull the phone cord that was just above my head down to where I could call someone, then I couldnt get my fingers to dial the numbers. it took another 45 minutes to get my husband on the phone. He came home and wanted to take me to the ER but Id made myself get up and thought I was feeling better, so told him so and went back to sleep.

I believe it was the next morning I woke and my husband is getting ready to get in the tank. I started geekin, beggin him to stay out of it. We didnt get all the corals in a right place and he was going to move them around. I told hom the corals was making us sick and please dont mess with them. So he goes and gets a T- SHIRT wraps it around his face as a mask and thought itd be ok. By time for him to go to work he was so sick like I was. Needless to say he was off work the next couple days. I remember him saying if where not better by morning we are going to the ER. I couldnt respond but heard everything. It was like I was trapped in my own body at times. I kept moaning a long drawn out moan then followed by one that was like choppy and I couldnt stop it no matter how hard I tried. Like I had no control. Ron & mom where on the phone and she called poison control and they laughed saying there wasnt anything in that tank that could hurt us. So mom told him to cover the tank and open all the doors and windows. Id got enough strength to get up to go the the restroom and got on craigslist to find someone to come get them out of our house. Id woke up at one point and my dog was even shaking uncontrolably, walking like she was drunk. The other was puking. By 11 am I was up feeling better, dogs seem to be ok and I wasnt paralzed feeling, still jittery and it still seems I have a cough from it. Other than that it was over once that smell got aired out. A fella came and got them and I now have a beautiful fish only lol. It was a miserable experience and suggest no one be stubborn about going to the ER like I was cause I now see how much danger it really was but I couldnt even think I was so sick at the time. Sorry this is long but I wouldnt want another newbie to go thru this. I even had a person on here say when he read my post trying to warn others that he was looking for a punchline that he thought it was a joke. Seriously this is no joke, it did happen and we wore gloves when handling them. I cant prove it was air borne and not cross contamination but its funny that my dogs got sick that was in another room with a gate to keep them in there. I dont know, didnt mean to butt in, I just wanted the poster and any newbies to know it happened here too kinda thing. Love ya all and wouldnt want anyone to go thru it.


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Unread 04/05/2011, 03:04 PM   #111
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yikes! so how do you avoid this? do we have to wear doctor's masks? that is crazy! if it's in the water it can still get out? I'm almost afraid to have zoos now


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Unread 04/05/2011, 04:49 PM   #112
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Just wanted to say I have had asthma my entire life. If this ever happens to you and you cannot breath drink coffee.

It is a natural stimulant and helps supress asthma symptoms. Caffeine is the main indgredient but the heat and moisture helps as well.


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Unread 04/05/2011, 05:04 PM   #113
BeltwayBandit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynnmw1208 View Post
yikes! so how do you avoid this? do we have to wear doctor's masks? that is crazy! if it's in the water it can still get out? I'm almost afraid to have zoos now
In Steve's case he was trying to kill nuisance zoas on some rock with boiling water (source: the article cited and confirmed with personal conversations with Steve during and after the incident). The toxin became airborne with the steam and he inhaled it. I have read other accounts of responses from dermal contact. My opinion is, if you have zoanthids use plastic gloves while handling them. In the studies cited not all of the zoas they sampled contained the toxin, but the ones that did had it in concentrations that can cause serious medical issues.


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Unread 04/05/2011, 05:50 PM   #114
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i am very late to this thread but when you dump live rock into boiling water who knows
what else was on that rock which could cause trouble.. let alone the zoas...


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Unread 04/05/2011, 07:24 PM   #115
Lynnmw1208
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I was talking about what highhopes said. didn't seem like they were boiling anything off rocks and yet they still has symptoms.


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Unread 04/06/2011, 09:14 AM   #116
ntevidence
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Palytoxin Found in Palythoa sp. Zoanthids (Anthozoa, Hexacorallia) Sold in the Home Aquarium Trade:

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%...l.pone.0018235


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Unread 04/25/2011, 11:16 AM   #117
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Wow. I read about you in discover magazine!!!! To the guy above. Palytoxin DOES cause this and everyone should read the article:

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/no...tore-near-you/


Do you have a better photo of the toxic zoos?


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Unread 04/25/2011, 11:19 AM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeltwayBandit View Post
In Steve's case he was trying to kill nuisance zoas on some rock with boiling water (source: the article cited and confirmed with personal conversations with Steve during and after the incident). The toxin became airborne with the steam and he inhaled it. I have read other accounts of responses from dermal contact. My opinion is, if you have zoanthids use plastic gloves while handling them. In the studies cited not all of the zoas they sampled contained the toxin, but the ones that did had it in concentrations that can cause serious medical issues.
How's it going down there in NC? I'm sure you miss the beltway traffic terribly.


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Unread 04/27/2011, 02:16 PM   #119
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Wow man, I'm really sorry to hear this. I have to be a lot more carful when handleing them. Thanks for sharing though


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Unread 05/26/2011, 05:37 AM   #120
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It's been over 4 years since it happened and I still remember it like it's yesterday. I wound up on steroids and an inhaler for almost 8 months. Luckily it seems that I didn't suffer any long term damage as a result, but those 8 months were not fun.


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Unread 05/26/2011, 05:40 AM   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbreefer View Post

Do you have a better photo of the toxic zoos?
Unfortunately I don't have a better photo. However, the folks in my local club have nicknamed these "Outlaw stew palys". I don't think I'll ever live this incident down.


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Unread 04/13/2012, 10:44 AM   #122
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I am interested in buying some Zoa's but would prefer not to purchase any which are known to be toxic. Does anyone know of a reference that indicates whether a zoa is toxic.


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Unread 04/13/2012, 11:19 AM   #123
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All zoas are toxic. No way to avoid it but you can take measures to protect yourself while handling them.


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Unread 04/13/2012, 07:34 PM   #124
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Yes - its great you shared. Knew that zooanthids were toxic, but never thought that boiling them could release the toxin. I've actually done this before, but luckily didn't breath anything in. Again, it good that you shared this kind of information - hopefully it helps others avoid the same fate.


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Unread 09/19/2014, 11:19 AM   #125
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I realize this thread is quite old by now, but I just recently joined RC and just now read this. I have MANY different Palys and Zoas in my tank and I had NO IDEA they were so toxic. Thank you for this write up. I bet you have saved many others from going through what you did, including myself. Thank You for posting this and I am glad to hear that you suffered no long term side effects. Are you still in the hobby after all of this?


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