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Old 01/24/2015, 08:02 AM   #1
snorvich
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Why I advocate TTM first for all new fish

Ich does not have to have visible symptoms in order to be present. So, to absolutely insure you are not introducing ich to your tank, the tank transfer method is the easiest way of doing so.

Tank transfer eliminates ich from the equation:
+ Eliminates ich by disrupting the life cycle
+ Requires 4 or more transfer cycles of less than 72 hours. So 3x3x3x3 or 2x2x2x2x2x2 are equally effective
+ Needs a total of 12 days
+ Requires that each new cycle start with a totally dry tank
+ Allows Prime to be used to eliminate ammonia problems
+ If the specific gravity of the water in the tank transfer process is adjusted to the specific gravity of the transport water, only temperature acclimation is require
+ Easiest way to transfer fish for each cycle is with a square colander

However, tank transfer only eliminates ich and does not affect any other parasite. As such I recommend Prazipro on the second and fourth cycles of tank transfer.

With the number of LFS running a low level of copper in their systems, I strongly recommend at least 4 weeks of observation beyond tank transfer in a cycled quarantine tank:

+ This allows any other parasite to visibly present (since low level of copper masks other parasites
+ It allows the new fish to eat vigorously with no competition


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Old 01/24/2015, 08:49 AM   #2
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taking your advice when i upgraded, steve, i set up a qt tank and used ttm/observation any time i have introduced a new fish. it has been flawless for me. while ttm was intimidating at first, once i used it, it was a snap.

thanks for all of your great advice. i've said it before...my success with this tank is largely due to your input!


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Old 01/24/2015, 08:53 AM   #3
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+1, I was afraid of doing this after reading tons of other threads. Once I read Steve's threads and his simple language, I am no longer afraid to give this a shot.


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Old 01/24/2015, 09:06 AM   #4
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+2

TTM is the best method for eliminating Cryptocaryon since it targets the most predictable phase of the life cycle.


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Old 01/24/2015, 09:16 AM   #5
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All my incoming fish look forward to TTM:


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Old 01/24/2015, 11:29 AM   #6
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So easy been doing it ever since my ich out break over.a Year ago, also what I do is use tank water for the qt tank water and my main gets 4 new waterchanges that 14 days and when im adding the fish to my main at the end of it all, they are ready to go it


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Old 01/24/2015, 11:55 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craigdillman View Post
So easy been doing it ever since my ich out break over.a Year ago, also what I do is use tank water for the qt tank water and my main gets 4 new waterchanges that 14 days and when im adding the fish to my main at the end of it all, they are ready to go it
Very clever. Never thought about doing that!!


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Old 01/24/2015, 12:32 PM   #8
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If two fish are bought at the same time can the TTM be effective for both at the same time?


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Old 01/24/2015, 01:03 PM   #9
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i don't see why you couldn't, as long as they aren't huge fish. i have only ever bought 1 fish at a time so that's my only experience with ttm.


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Old 01/24/2015, 01:54 PM   #10
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This method works. I actually read about it in the 1985 study in Israel last night, so it's proven. My fish thank Steves effort for advocating it.


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Old 01/24/2015, 01:55 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by laga77 View Post
If two fish are bought at the same time can the TTM be effective for both at the same time?
Sure. I would not put two large fish in a small tank for long, however.


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Old 01/24/2015, 04:55 PM   #12
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Thanks, I got a good deal on a flame angel and a golden headed sleeper. They are in a 30 gal QT tank now and I am getting a second 30 gal tomorrow.


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Old 01/24/2015, 05:29 PM   #13
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Thanks, I got a good deal on a flame angel and a golden headed sleeper. They are in a 30 gal QT tank now and I am getting a second 30 gal tomorrow.
No need to fill the tank all the way. Most people use 10 gallon tanks for this sized fish.


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Old 01/26/2015, 08:33 AM   #14
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Going to pick up two ten gallon tanks tonight.. i have two weeks until my 3 month fallow is up, thanks to ich on my first fish... u live and learn.. i think i will b getting very familiar with ttm..

Im gonna use tank water also and get some free water changes!!


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Old 01/26/2015, 09:39 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by jeffdenney View Post
Going to pick up two ten gallon tanks tonight.. i have two weeks until my 3 month fallow is up, thanks to ich on my first fish... u live and learn.. i think i will b getting very familiar with ttm..

Im gonna use tank water also and get some free water changes!!
Do not use tank water from a tank that is being kept fallow; but after the fallow period is up, it should be fine.


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Old 01/26/2015, 01:12 PM   #16
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I see no problem in using tank water if it is properly disinfected.
I have currently some fish in hyposalinity for Ich treatment. For water changes I take water from the main tank and boil it. Then I adjust salinity and temperature by adding RO water and ice - works perfectly fine. And the corals in my main tank need the fresh water more than the fish.

I would also do TTM under hyposaline conditions, firstly to reduce stress and strengthen the fish's immune system and secondly to reduce costs.

And hyposalinity is recommended for copper or antibiotic treatments too. Especially copper treatments should be done at reduced salinity since copper severely reduces the fish's immune defenses.


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Old 01/26/2015, 02:08 PM   #17
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Quote:
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I see no problem in using tank water if it is properly disinfected.
I have currently some fish in hyposalinity for Ich treatment. For water changes I take water from the main tank and boil it. Then I adjust salinity and temperature by adding RO water and ice - works perfectly fine. And the corals in my main tank need the fresh water more than the fish.

I would also do TTM under hyposaline conditions, firstly to reduce stress and strengthen the fish's immune system and secondly to reduce costs.

And hyposalinity is recommended for copper or antibiotic treatments too. Especially copper treatments should be done at reduced salinity since copper severely reduces the fish's immune defenses.
DON'T use fallow tank water or water from a infected source. 72 days fallow at that. Otherwise the count constantly starts over every 3 days. Mix new saltwater everytime and seed with filter media from a clean origin. Hypo is extremely limited in effectiveness and is way more difficult than what Steve described in the first post.


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Old 01/26/2015, 02:16 PM   #18
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I don't see how cryptocaryon can survive being boiled. And there are plenty of other reasons to lower the salinity, not just to kill the parasite.
Here is a good article on Ich and TTM: A New Variation Of The Transfer Method


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Old 01/26/2015, 02:21 PM   #19
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Using hypo and TTM in conjunction seems like an awful lot of extra work for a tried and true method such as TTM. just my 2 cents.


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Old 01/26/2015, 02:40 PM   #20
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I don't see how cryptocaryon can survive being boiled.
It can't. In fact, boiling is over-kill, as studies have shown that the tomant (cyst stage) doesn't survive at 40 degrees C for one hour. However, I don't think anyone has studied what other possible negative chemical changes to water quality may occur by heating then reusing tank water. I would personally be leery of heating and reusing tank water.

Quote:
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I would also do TTM under hyposaline conditions, firstly to reduce stress and strengthen the fish's immune system and secondly to reduce costs.
You need to consider your energy costs for boiling the water, and for making the ice cubes to cool the hot water. If reducing cost is important to you, you may not be saving as much as you think.


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Old 01/26/2015, 02:45 PM   #21
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Using hypo and TTM in conjunction seems like an awful lot of extra work for a tried and true method such as TTM. just my 2 cents.

Maybe he meant hypo during TTM, as in just using less salt.


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Old 01/26/2015, 02:46 PM   #22
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I have a question here: I am lucky to live in San Diego, and by the Scripps institute of oceanography.

They give free filtered sea water. From a hose, literally.

Could this water be used for TTM?


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Old 01/26/2015, 02:49 PM   #23
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I looked at the link he provided. instead of just matching the bag or DT salinity one must lower the salinity over time to I assume true hypo conditions of 1.009. Then start the Tank transfers afterwards then the salinity must be increased back to the DT. Just seems like a lot of extra work for little to know gain.


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Old 01/26/2015, 02:53 PM   #24
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I looked at the link he provided. instead of just matching the bag or DT salinity one must lower the salinity over time to I assume true hypo conditions of 1.009. Then start the Tank transfers afterwards then the salinity must be increased back to the DT. Just seems like a lot of extra work for little to know gain.

Didn't see the link, but put this way, you're right.

I am doing TTM at only 1.020 vs my normal 1.023. Saves a cup of salt.


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Old 01/26/2015, 02:56 PM   #25
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Didn't see the link, but put this way, you're right.

I am doing TTM at only 1.020 vs my normal 1.023. Saves a cup of salt.
No worries. I have done them at 1.020, 1.018 it all depends on what the bag water is. I don't think I have ever got a fish at 1.026.


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