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01/04/2016, 10:41 PM | #2526 |
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I've had the same experience - after aggressively removing P with GFO combating GHA is when my troubles with this stuff began.
So while corals help build up the bacteriolandscape do they really combat the complimentary bacteria for Dino's? It certainly explains why corals suffer. So should you add MORE corals if you have a Dino problem? I removed what little I had (also a small amount of corals is a contributor)? Does it make sense that carbon dosing with ethanol/vinegar will fuel the correct bacteriolandscape or is it raw food for any bacteria - Dino complimentary too? Last edited by jonwright; 01/04/2016 at 10:47 PM. |
01/04/2016, 10:47 PM | #2527 |
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Karim: I have a tank with Dino's (presumably) and one without. I would be happy to send samples/ run correlation exercises as well. I imagine it would indeed take a marine biologist and perhaps DNA analysis to see what the exact bacteriolandscape differences are between my tanks.
Eh. I'm gonna start throwing skimmate in the "ugly" tank. |
01/04/2016, 11:21 PM | #2528 |
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01/04/2016, 11:48 PM | #2529 |
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I'm adding what the bottle recommended; which is 5ml per 50 gallon. But I'm dosing everyday instead of twice per week which was recommended. I'm also planning on culturing my own.
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01/05/2016, 02:02 AM | #2530 |
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I'm starting my own culture too. I have a 600gal tank, so that's 60ml a week... I want to move to 60ml a day, but that's $$$ expensive unless I can culture a lot.
My skimmer is also a beast. Even adding the phyto with my skimmer off for 6 hours, my skimmate liquid still has a green tint ... But it's still worth it for the portion that gets consumed.
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01/05/2016, 08:31 AM | #2531 |
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Dinoflagellates.
I also removed my filter sock. Before, the sump would receive filtered and skimmed water from DT, now the sump gets sprinkled with fish food everyone DT is fed.
I took out a flake that had laid in sump for 24hrs; it was crawling with different species of microscopic creatures. I decided to take out the sock after looking at the sock waste under microscope and noticing I was washing away thousands of tiny creatures.
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01/05/2016, 09:10 AM | #2532 |
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I run a mechanical filter free system too. No socks or sponges.
I also have a three layer refugium with the lowest later being a low flow, low light cryptic zone. My dinos have been under control for almost a year now.
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01/05/2016, 09:14 AM | #2533 |
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34cy- what's the next step? Do you have a recommended treatment? A bacterial strain that should be added?
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01/05/2016, 09:32 AM | #2534 | |
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Quote:
Today is day 5 dino free, I'm pretty much going to change my dino hunt to weekly since they appear to be 100% gone.
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01/05/2016, 10:07 AM | #2535 |
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Thank you for that massively researched post, Cygni!
I read it once and am going to have to re-read, it seems to me like the dirty method should not only not work, it should make things significantly worse. The existence of a dino holobiont makes sense, and is fascinating. Carbon cycling seems to be the new hot topic in reefkeeping as well as the real reefs. I'm also slightly confused by your use of 'copiotrophic'.. most authors seem to use it to mean an organism which likes eutrophic conditions. I infer from context that you are using copiotrophic to refer specifically to high-carbon but low N and P conditions created after a bacterial bloom reduces initially eutrophic waters? The multicellular eye in Wm showed up in my science news feed and I dismissed it as an obvious troll. Come on dinos, bad enough you're using the wrong rubisco, having eyes is just silly. you totally got your biogeek on Ivy
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28g cube, CF 105watts! Tunze 9001. Tiny frags: Euphyllia, blasto, ricordea and a rock flower anemone. Lost fish and inverts due to ongoing outbreak of dinoflagellates. Current Tank Info: 28g aio, 105 watt CF lights, no sump or skimmer. 2 sexy shrimp, tiny frogspawn, tiny toadstool, tiny lps. Started Feb '15 Last edited by Quiet_Ivy; 01/05/2016 at 10:35 AM. Reason: can't spell, topic too interesting |
01/05/2016, 10:18 AM | #2536 | |
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Carbon dosing is an interesting point.. it has been known to encourage cyano blooms. I can come up with hypothetical reasons why it should help and harm. I don't *think* I recall anyone mentioning that they were c-dosing when they got dinos. Anyone? hth ivy
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28g cube, CF 105watts! Tunze 9001. Tiny frags: Euphyllia, blasto, ricordea and a rock flower anemone. Lost fish and inverts due to ongoing outbreak of dinoflagellates. Current Tank Info: 28g aio, 105 watt CF lights, no sump or skimmer. 2 sexy shrimp, tiny frogspawn, tiny toadstool, tiny lps. Started Feb '15 |
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01/05/2016, 10:21 AM | #2537 |
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Quiet_Ivy, don't give up...i know you said you're keeping your NO3 at 15, are you also keeping your PO4 at ~.03? I think dinos flourish when there is an imbalance between NO3 and PO4 so if you have limited PO4, have you tried dosing? Something like Brigthwell NeoPhos can add some PO4 without polluting your tank even more.
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01/05/2016, 10:40 AM | #2538 | |
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Yes, I've been carbon dosing for years and have dino's. None visually right now and probably wont see them again until I screw something up again. My parameters are pretty well posted around now to. With Nitrates under 1ppm and even under .5ppm. Phosphates around .03. Most recently under .03. My many adventures in comparison testing http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2541190 My most recent set of test results But I don't strive for clean or dirty and have no idea which I fall into. My parameters for nitrate and phosphates are low. But my sump is full of detritus I never touch. I don't use filter socks or other typical mechanical filtration. The flow in my display tank is setup now to keep detritus suspended until sucked down the overflow to my sump where it becomes food and home to many critters. For exports:
For imports:
I didn't touch the dino's this time around and just watched them. Pictures of their peak and eventual decline earlier in this thread. Edit: and my Mg supplement used to be Tech-m but switched a few years ago to a Mg Chloride/Sulfate I mix together myself now for cheaper. Using Randy's ratio for those using Kalk.
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rebuild and recovery log: No more red house, you'll have to click on my name and visit my homepage! You can check out my parameters at reeftronics dot net website and look for my username. Current Tank Info: 180g mixed reef w/ a beananimal overflow to a dolomite RRUGF. | 20g long G. Smithii Mantis Tank Last edited by jason2459; 01/05/2016 at 10:49 AM. |
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01/05/2016, 10:52 AM | #2539 | |
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While it would take a very concerted effort to identify exactly the bacteria correlated with dinos and where, it would be possible methinks. Nonetheless the whole complimentary bacteria story certainly follows in correlation with what folks here have observed. Yeah, I know correlation isn't causation but it seems to be on the correct path nonetheless. I'd be thrilled to send a sample of my "dino" skimmate and my "healthy" skimmate to someone to analyze. Then perhaps dose my healthy skimmate into my dino tank. Or whatever else would be good to test a theory. Also I removed coral from the dino tank and they are now in the healthy tank - doing much, much better. Maybe take a sample off the coral (for bacterial colonies in the mucous?) then place in dino tank, look for bleaching etc and test again? Point is I don't have a uscope and I'm certainly not trained enough to be able to identify the critters therein even if I did have a uscope. But as I have 2 tanks using the same source water, simliar lights etc. and an ability to rather run some controlled procedures I'd be fine doing that. Or not. I'm willing to help if I can do so. Last edited by jonwright; 01/05/2016 at 10:58 AM. |
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01/05/2016, 11:27 AM | #2540 |
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Just two months to be 1-year ostreopsis free. I beat it switching off the skimmer and dosing phytoplankton with a dosing pump (24 3ml shots per day)
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01/05/2016, 02:01 PM | #2541 |
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I've been considering the exact same method for dosing phyto - did you keep the bottle cold? Been wondering if I need to get complicated with a dorm fridge or not.
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01/05/2016, 07:03 PM | #2542 |
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I don't have a dino infestation, but dinos are always present... waiting in the corners for me to screw things up so they can mount a revolt and take over again. Paranoid much?
First, they send their cyano friends to check things out. If the cyano find enough dirty gunk, death or waste, they call over their nasty dino buddies who come to dig in. Strangely enough, my corals do produce mucus more than I'd expect. Maybe the battle goes on in the invisible space but I don't see any dinos. I turn off my skimmer at night now when I dose my phyto. I also turn off my UV by day. The corals seem to like it, so we'll see how well that goes.
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01/05/2016, 09:50 PM | #2543 | |
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01/05/2016, 09:55 PM | #2544 |
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I'm working it, but I can't keep the culture fully suspended. There's material that keeps ending up on the bottom of the container and I have to shake it daily.
It's ok, but I need it automated.
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01/05/2016, 09:57 PM | #2545 |
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So what's the plan for attack now? Avoid dirty method and dose phyto?
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01/06/2016, 08:12 AM | #2546 | |
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I was keeping NO3 at 5ppm, the spike to 15 was a mistake. Phos at about .05 I was dosing NaNo3 at about 3ppm *daily*, and a (land plant based) P fertilizer weekly. Currently nitrate is still about 15 which is very odd. P undetectable. ivy
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28g cube, CF 105watts! Tunze 9001. Tiny frags: Euphyllia, blasto, ricordea and a rock flower anemone. Lost fish and inverts due to ongoing outbreak of dinoflagellates. Current Tank Info: 28g aio, 105 watt CF lights, no sump or skimmer. 2 sexy shrimp, tiny frogspawn, tiny toadstool, tiny lps. Started Feb '15 |
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01/06/2016, 08:16 AM | #2547 | |
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Reefing is the definition of empirical science (We do stuff this way and it works but we don't really know why and can't prove it) ivy
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28g cube, CF 105watts! Tunze 9001. Tiny frags: Euphyllia, blasto, ricordea and a rock flower anemone. Lost fish and inverts due to ongoing outbreak of dinoflagellates. Current Tank Info: 28g aio, 105 watt CF lights, no sump or skimmer. 2 sexy shrimp, tiny frogspawn, tiny toadstool, tiny lps. Started Feb '15 |
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01/06/2016, 11:42 AM | #2548 |
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01/06/2016, 11:43 AM | #2549 |
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Can dinos cause bubble tip anemone to split ? My bubble tip which wasn't that big split last night. Could it be because of dinos?
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01/06/2016, 11:45 AM | #2550 | |
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